This particular army was the largest on the map when it invaded us, a weaker kingdom with few members and a large ally, that had directed us to farm so that we could join in the fray in a week or so.
With this army turning around, it is an oppurtune time to move to honor your alliance.
We had a NAP with H&S which will be continued peacefully and nicely from our side. Our kingdom don't Break relation without big issues. This is the way of Azeroth.
Our Council agrees to this decision that it was just a NAP, nothing else. And we have a very strong Council with very experienced players, please keep it in mind.
We don't have. I gave my word for the FFA, so I would not break it. I received a lot of offer but I rejected it all. I offered them to join our KD instead. So far no invitation was sent, so we are basically at war with all the KDs.
Kingdom a is at war with kingdom c and at peace with kingdom b.
Does kingdom B have ANY obligation in an NAP to block the movement through blockers or otherwise of the warring kingdom c in route to attack?
Considering all the fallout after yhe gate faux pa when I was away last weekend, i suppose that it is expected for NAP partners to not allow other enemies to waltz through?
Or is that allies? I just want to clarify moving forward.
Um, kingdom B was at war too, since kingdom C attacked them, too. Plus, that blockers purpose was blocking for kingdom A, not kingdom B. Although tbh, all of this implies alliance, not nap. That's how I treated it, anyway.
As for animi, I'm referring to that KD in your core.
Granted, that's how we treated it too, only because that is what was told to us.
THAT SAID: Be sure that details are clearly laid out. I guess we didn't actually say we had to 'Come to eachother's aid'. Work together is rather vague. And clauses for attacking in case of emergency for blockers, etc, should be included.
Alliance With H&S
Mr. Varian Wrynn (1/30/2017 1:53:34 PM)
Greetings, CEO of H&S
Kingdom of Azeroth agrees to become Alliance with your Kd H&S officially. Alliance means we will work together, share our intels, help each other and even coordinate attacks. Rules of Alliance: No attacking each other in Whole Era; this includes any type of attacks, no giving any kind of kd intels to any other kd; for example posting locations of KoA on forum. We'll be waiting for your answer.
King Varian Wrynn Leader of Kingdom of Azeroth
You (1/30/2017 4:41:26 PM)
We accept
If an alliance wasn't requested, perhaps:
NAP with Hammer and Shield offer is official. NAP means we will not attack eachother all era. Rules of NAP:No attacking eachother whole era. This excludes for emergencies like imminent core defense with at least 6 hours notice. No magic casting on eachother.
That would have solved the issue and confusion.
My sincerest apologies for not securing proper details on the front end. I obviously misunderstood.
Well i cant attack them earlier due to the 50% rule crap but yeah they took the bait and attacked my scout so now its on. Actually i dont know anymore if i should attack them or not coz either way it'll look bad. Not attacking them will mean that we are contradicting the FFA policy while attacking them might be mistaken as feeding on inactive kingdoms, so what am i supposed to do here.
It's disappointing to see Azeroth turning into an Albatrash tier kingdom with dishonorable and disgraceful play.
Gotta feel sorry for Hammer & Shield.
Excuse me, what? We don't want to reveal our diplomacy in Forum n thats why we were Silent. But you decided already.... that we are Disgraceful?! We had no intentions to make NAP with H&S, they were keep requesting us from beginning, don't believe?
Mr. Bigfield Ceo (1/30/2017 6:27:29 PM)
Be advised that a tagless halfling is settle to the North East of the HnS northern Annex.
Be advised that Duke Chade has sent a human scout, approaching from the same latitude as Orcish Gate.
As per the communications with Xerxes, Hammer and Shield will cease all future settlement of the Northern area, between the mountains and the sea as a token of good will.
Our scouts have redirected further south, and will instead settle to the south and west of Toll Center. We will not occupy the entire vallley, just the area south of Toll Center towards the crater to the South.
We have understood that Orcish Gate is roughly the southern border of your empire. If thia ia incorrect, we will adjust course, yet again.
Be advised that we have downsized significantly in personel from previoua eras. What we now lack in manpower, we make up for in tenacity and economic mastery. Allow us to develop and you will have a strong ally in the future against aggressors.
You (1/29/2017 10:05:16 AM)
Bigfield change your direction mate, thats our core inside that bridge. We reached here 'bout 30 ticks ago.
Mr. Bigfield Ceo (1/29/2017 4:39:33 PM)
Changing course
You (1/29/2017 10:12:45 AM)
and 7-8 ticks below from your army will be our Secondary Core. But we have intel that North-east corner n north-east side from your army is empty.
Mr. Bigfield Ceo (1/29/2017 4:45:13 PM)
Thats a long hike.
Ill set up on the NE corner of the NW corner. Near the bridge.
Here it is to clarify all.... who is Disgraceful...
Mr. Bigfield Ceo (2/19/2017 1:38:50 AM)
It just seems a bit of a double standard that if we are only NAP and not allies why we were attacked by your kingdom for being offline during the work day when a Kingdom we were not actively engaged with war went wakled over.
It seems the expectation was that we would have the same enemies. And you retaliated when we didn't support as we might could have by attacking. We thought this somewhat reasonable considering the understanding was that we had mutual defense, and we committed to working harder to communicate on defensive things.
But now I am left wondering: Will your kingdom allow this top player to simply waltz through your core, around your cities, and to take out your partern, whom until today you called an ally?
What is the expectation?
If the terms of our agreement have never actually changed, and had been an NAP the whole time, then it is an NAP where we do not let aggressive kingdoms through blockers, no?
Or have the terms shifted?
This needs to be clarified before a 200k army marches through your cities and takes out our last stronghold.
You (2/19/2017 5:35:05 AM)
there are 2 terms in this game mainly, NAP and MAP. NAP partners can work together too, can coordinate attack too if they want. Only one thing left now is "help each other" but its not said ANYTHING 'bout MILITARY help or their is no clarification about this, which needed MUST in "terms" to make a "MAP/ally" with a kd.
By "help each other" you can mean helps like intel sharing,.... which is a part of NAP. Its been clarified welly by our Council. You are an Old player, you didn't look at "terms" welly before arguing!
Now here's the thing, that army didn't pass through any of our Blockers.... pls see it again n recheck. it passed through your blockers. 1) you and your kd lost with an one man kd cause of your own Reasons. 2) We took your blockers cause you didn't Opened it when we had emergency n our players msged you n your players for long times to Open; We told you at the beginning that "Move away" from "our Core" n settle far eastern bridge, you said you will; but you didn't do it; Not only that you made Blockers in major passing places in our Core or Second Core without even asking us for permission!, and we even told you it will be our second core in future. 3) we didn't care 'bout NAP or MAP, we wanted to help you militarily, but even seeing that our major armies are in KoH, you're keep Arguing with us n telling on forums!! which most of our players HATE. 4) if you lose, then blame yourselves why us? 5) we have NAP with you, true. But how you know we don't have a secret NAP with Osi? isn't it possible? Can't we make one to save our cities??? is it written in "terms" that we can't? and why should we share Secret matters with you? 5) did we did anything to help Osi to come towards you? NOPE. give us 1 good reason that clarified that we helped Osi to help attacking you.
Now you have more questions? pls read again what i just wrote. i don't think you will have any more question.
04:13:45 Feb 19th 17 - Strawberry (Ms. Strawberry): Well
i cant attack them earlier due to the 50% rule crap but yeah they took
the bait and attacked my scout so now its on. Actually i dont know
anymore if i should attack them or not coz either way it'll look bad.
Not attacking them will mean that we are contradicting the FFA policy
while attacking them might be mistaken as feeding on inactive kingdoms,
so what am i supposed to do here.
I hope the same reasoning is applied to the remaining kingdoms and not just ours, which had only 2 of it's members restart after an oop war with Nararians.
You know, you say you want to tell the whole stort, but left out this gem? That we somehow backstabbed by not relocating? We did relocate. We allowed you to keep our cities you took to make it easier. But dont forget, you told us to stay close.
Mr. Varian Wrynn (1/30/2017 2:18:41 PM)
mate, no need for you guys to resettle if we are Alliance. resettling will waste time. if we are alliance we have no prob if your cities are close by.
i send you another massage to become alliance, i mean every one likes you including me, so why not :P :D
You (1/30/2017 4:42:51 PM)
Im glad we built up good will.
You guys could come and block the eastern most passes up North. We will be building more where it is safer behind the mountain ranges.
Mr. Varian Wrynn (1/30/2017 5:29:35 PM)
Enemy Intel
KoH is at the north-east corner of the map. Luckily one of our orc member was there from the beginning. Now two of our orc player droped a city on their core. There is also Ark of Novus(Elf) inside KoH's core who'll fight with 'em OOP. other Novus members gone below from their core to avoid OOP.
@Marcus, of course we will not attack just your KD. It just happened that you resettled to a place near us and without first asking me what our KD's priority. You only messaged me after you already settled there. I offered you to merge to us but it seems you don't like it. So, as I agreed to FFA we are basically at war with everyone.
First of all Bigfield, i requiested you cause someone massaged me by saying H&S wasting their time by resettling.
But you forgot the fact that 1)We massaged you & all H&S members for a long time to OPEN the blocker "West Annex" but got no Reply. So You're telling is that We'd Wait to your blocker for 24 Hours if you don't OPEN in emergency! not gonna happen. if you were that "Inactive" why did you made blockers? 2) H&S member Perilous didn't OFF the Gate, Lazy used the Chance and Wrecked Our members Valuable MAGIC CITY. I had to go all way down to take out Lazy which Helped Logen to survive and wasted our time. We had to sell Freya slaves to rebuild. 3) Alliance? where is your "Terms"? So if i say we are allianced with KoH and it'll be officially done? are you kidding me? 4) We had NO interest to keep your cities. Your most of cities were taken by Logen, then we took them. Even after that we gave back 2 or 3 cities. Only one city we took is East Parking for not Opening, not replying in emergency.
You (1/29/2017 4:45:39 PM)
I relayed your message and will get back to you.
You (1/30/2017 10:41:47 AM)
The Kingdom of Azeroth has decreed that your Annex is far to close to allow for peace.
Mr. Bigfield Ceo (1/30/2017 12:09:05 PM)
We will cease settlement in the North. We have redirected our acouts elsewhere.
In exchange for resettling, we will keep your kingdom up to date with completw transparency on our 5 cities in the North, and will not alow hostile forces to transit toward your lands fron that direction.
Be aware that there are far more aggressive actors at direction, and I would advise that a course of partnership would prove far more beneficial in the long run
I'm uncertain what you are trying to prove. I never said that I wasn't interest in a partnership. I'm not one to tell what a kingdom should or shouldn't do. I advised there there are more aggressive actors. There are.
A course of partnership would have enabled your kingdom, capped at 10, to have more power behind it. A full partnership was declared, several times, by you, as an alliance.
Insert Vader meme of altering the terms of the agreement, suggesting that I pray it not be altered further.
If you didn't want an Alliance, you shouldn't have sent me a message titled 'Alliance' and another message referencing our alliance and how it wouldn't matter if we moved.
Message from Mr. Varian Wrynn
Alliance With H&S
Mr. Varian Wrynn (1/30/2017 1:53:34 PM)
Greetings, CEO of H&S
Kingdom of Azeroth agrees to become Alliance with your Kd H&S officially. Alliance means we will work together, share our intels, help each other and even coordinate attacks. Rules of Alliance: No attacking each other in Whole Era; this includes any type of attacks, no giving any kind of kd intels to any other kd; for example posting locations of KoA on forum. We'll be waiting for your answer.
King Varian Wrynn Leader of Kingdom of Azeroth
You (1/30/2017 4:41:26 PM)
We accept
Mr. Varian Wrynn (1/30/2017 5:01:21 PM)
Nice Bigfield :)
Mr. Varian Wrynn (1/30/2017 2:18:41 PM)
mate, no need for you guys to resettle if we are Alliance. resettling will waste time. if we are alliance we have no prob if your cities are close by.
i send you another massage to become alliance, i mean every one likes you including me, so why not :P :D
You (1/30/2017 4:42:51 PM)
Im glad we built up good will.
You guys could come and block the eastern most passes up North. We will be building more where it is safer behind the mountain ranges.
Mr. Varian Wrynn (1/30/2017 5:29:35 PM)
Enemy Intel
KoH is at the north-east corner of the map. Luckily one of our orc member was there from the beginning. Now two of our orc player droped a city on their core. There is also Ark of Novus(Elf) inside KoH's core who'll fight with 'em OOP. other Novus members gone below from their core to avoid OOP.
Mr. Varian Wrynn (1/30/2017 5:37:31 PM)
Enemy Intel
Below "Southern Annex"(on of your city) theres's a bridge, if you go bit more down. Inside that bridge is the Core of Nararians. they already know where our core is; some one told them. besides their core there is also SPQR's core. But we didn't saw SPQR's core yet. but we saw Nara's core as one of our member was in that area.
Nararians after winning with SPQR will head towards us. But we have LoS till the bridge so we'll let you know if we get anything coming.
Hope you'll reply after reading these.
You (1/30/2017 9:12:53 PM)
Received. I will work with perilous to build up toll center as a strong fortress.
Alliance means allies, like NATO. You drafted the terms, not I. Again, I Accept blame for not demanding more specific terms.
Unlike some Kingdoms, Hammer and Shield is willing to accept when something goes wrong. Perilous was offline. I don't blame him. He has a job, but we didn't ask for any cities to be returned to us after the fact.
Mr. Varian Wrynn (2/14/2017 12:45:17 AM)
Bigfield tell perilous 'bout this if he didn't read. Its emergency. that gate MUST not open. big armies are coming. msg with perilous:
You (2/14/2017 5:40:49 AM) Decission is made: Don't EVER OPEN gate of East Parking from now on, build hard defences there, keep it over 500k dp. We won't take East Parking from you, if its necessary, we'll build a new bolcker there n will tell you to open the gate.
Reply to ensure you read n agreed with our plan....
You (2/14/2017 11:13:49 AM)
We will keep it forever closed.
Mr. Varian Wrynn (2/14/2017 11:49:32 AM)
Bigfield, Shug seems very angry, he's reinforcement stopped which is emergency, KoH armny Group close; n he msged Perilous 3 TIMEs for over 12 hours.
Whats wrong with Perilous? i just don't understand....
You (2/14/2017 12:07:35 PM)
He could be at work right now. Ill text him. Does it need openong or closed?
You (2/14/2017 12:10:46 PM)
I am disappointed at your kingsoms decision to go against the previous agreement.
If a player is ofline, particularly an adult with a job, it is customary to give at least 24 hours.
I know he was online last night and messaged and closed the gates as was requested by your kingdom.
But Now you have shunted tens of millions in training and construction and ruined the placement of what would have been a 90k city.
This reflects poorly.
On account of us repeatedly saying "We are sorry" and "Keep the cities to compensate for the inconvenience" we are left wondering if you know what the term 'grace' means.
Perilous already established with posted messages that it was with a 6 hour window that you told him to never open the gates again, and to invest in 500k defense, to the time that he was at work and before lunch break it had been taken.
You and I determined this was 'water under the bridge'. In addition to 'alliance' I am not sure you know what 'bygones be bygones' means. It means if a mistake goes by, you find a way to make it better and you grow in trust for one another.
Later that day here was our exchange:
You (2/14/2017 2:55:53 PM)
I propose the Kumbaya Accord.
Bygones will be bygones. Keep the cities you took, but dont expect us to join the fight for a week. We need the same opportunity afforded to you guys earlier on to build our economies and be able to fight.
Think of it like a game of leap frog, a cycle. Take your wave forward, and we will prepare mid era armies.
Mr. Varian Wrynn (2/14/2017 3:04:47 PM)
Ok mate, do whatever you guys need to do. Farming, training whatever. take as much time you need.
Sorry for the loss, but if it goes well, i'll personally try to gift perilous a caught city.
You (2/14/2017 3:21:47 PM)
He will be fine. These types of things happen on occasion. Im more optimistic and patient than moat ao it is surprising when people act so quickly. In this case I dont think the cost to PR or in investments and economy was worth the passage of the army that another tick or two wouldnt have solved.
But, it is a learning lesson. You may want to keep the pride level of aone of your mates in check. We choose the anonymity of a snaller KD. It doeant make us weaker or less strategic. Life happens and always takea precedence over VU. I know you understand that. The true mark of a leader ia getting your followers to understand it too.
We will start farming up. Expect 250k axes by periloua before too long. He will go full econ and come in swinginf in due time.
Ill go for 200k advents and will try to catch some xp first. Approaching 20k at present.
Mr. Varian Wrynn (2/14/2017 3:28:01 PM)
i understand n i'll let you know that i didn't wanted that Shug take over that blocker, even i msged him not to do it. But our members gone angry after Lazy came in n wreck freya's only MC in that area n we had to give her 50k slaves to rebuild MC.
You (2/14/2017 5:59:47 PM)
Water under the bridge as far as I see it. We will continue to pump our products unto the market to assist in market feeding.
Interestingly enough, in the alliance terms you posted, you didn't mention not allowing enemies through. Granted, we didn't do it on purpose, and it wasn't even my character to make the difference. If we were going by posted terms, we were to share intels, which as you and I have both demonstrated, we both did, work together, and help eachother. We helped you in the early OOP by stalling out a rampaging OOP halfer when my KD was trying to get some magic up and running. That allowed some of your team to farm (2 weeks in, still farming, as per the messages around Valentines day- again, not a bad thing, farming is what it takes to win).
We honestly did feel bad that the army got through our blocker. We didn't see it come through, and I think it was a force march. It happened when we were offline. We apologized. We asked that you keep the cities and didnt ask for any cities in exchange.
Because The terms of our alliance were to help eachother and work together.
We've already made it clear that we will honor the terms of the alliance. Period. Because that is what Hammer and Shield does. And if we get screwed over doing it, then so be it.
What is a 3 member KD who didn't have a ton of time to be active, so spawned on the noob world supposed to do? I suppose we could resign, simply not play, but I guess I'm a glutton for punishment.
If you didn't want an Alliance, you shouldn't have sent me a message titled 'Alliance' and another message referencing our alliance and how it wouldn't matter if we moved.
I don't have to say anything new. These are from previous posts. You might need to look again.
3) Alliance? where is your "Terms"? So if i say we are allianced with KoH and it'll be officially done? are you kidding me?
You (2/19/2017 5:35:05 AM)
there are 2 terms in this game mainly, NAP and MAP. NAP partners can work together too, can coordinate attack too if they want. Only one thing left now is "help each other" but its not said ANYTHING 'bout MILITARY help or their is no clarification about this, which needed MUST in "terms" to make a "MAP/ally" with a kd.
By "help each other" you can mean helps like intel sharing,.... which is a part of NAP. Its been clarified welly by our Council. You are an Old player, you didn't look at "terms" welly before arguing!
Mr. Bigfield Ceo:
Interestingly enough, in the alliance terms you posted, you didn't mention not allowing enemies through. Granted, we didn't do it on purpose, and it wasn't even my character to make the difference. If we were going by posted terms, we were to share intels, which as you and I have both demonstrated, we both did, work together, and help eachother. We helped you in the early OOP by stalling out a rampaging OOP halfer when my KD was trying to get some magic up and running. That allowed some of your team to farm (2 weeks in, still farming, as per the messages around Valentines day- again, not a bad thing, farming is what it takes to win).
We honestly did feel bad that the army got through our blocker. We didn't see it come through, and I think it was a force march. It happened when we were offline. We apologized. We asked that you keep the cities and didnt ask for any cities in exchange.
We've already made it clear that we will honor the terms of the alliance. Period. Because that is what Hammer and Shield does. And if we get screwed over doing it, then so be it.
What is a 3 member KD who didn't have a ton of time to be active, so spawned on the noob world supposed to do? I suppose we could resign, simply not play, but I guess I'm a glutton for punishment.
In that, We Agree with you. And i told you before we all did mistakes.
And i don't want to Argue with you anymore. but just want to say this, Lazy's army was halflings n halfers can't force march.
Fair enough on Lazy. We were offline, it happens. We admit wrong.
But the rest of your message is a jumbled mismatched formatting error, so I'm not really sure what we are getting at.
You proposed an alliance, called it an alliance, and gave us terms. You said do you accept? We accepted. Terms were that Alliance "Meant we will work together, share intels, help eachother, and coordinate attacks. We would also refrain from attacking eachother whole era, including any kind of attack, giving any intel etc.
Those were the terms you gave, that I accepted, and we agreed to, for our ALLIANCE. In YOUR words.
Your message is quite redundant. 'Help eachother out' is obvious for military. Because you mention work together, share intel, help eachother, and coordinate attacks.
You didn't say "Work together, share intel, share intel, share intel."
Mr. Varian Wrynn (1/30/2017 1:53:34 PM)
Greetings, CEO of H&S
Kingdom of Azeroth agrees to become Alliance with your Kd H&S officially. Alliance means we will work together, share our intels, help each other and even coordinate attacks. Rules of Alliance: No attacking each other in Whole Era; this includes any type of attacks, no giving any kind of kd intels to any other kd; for example posting locations of KoA on forum. We'll be waiting for your answer.
Ok, but you forgetting this, where is it saying We'll have to MILITARY help you if YOU're in Under attack? by "Help each other" can't we mean sharing intels?
MAP need more Clarification. Which this "terms" doesn't has. Like i said. Besides i don't take "ALLIANCE=MAP" in my opinion. In my word "Alliance" is NOT MAP.
so we're not Responsible if you Lose the "War." And i to be honest with you, we wanted to help you by sending troops, we told you why we couldn't. You didn't listen to US, posted in forums saying different things.
Without military help it cannot be definition be considered an Alliance. You used the term alliance which by definition includes military help.
While the casus foederis is vague in our contract, I choose to invoke contra proferentem. (a good read, for general understanding of contract law for any citizen in Europe or the United States.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contra_proferentem Given that we were on the lower end of the bargaining power, it should be understood that the drafter of an agreement bears the higher cost and should act explicitly as such. This is common law in Most of the Western world.
Here is a well cited scholarly article on the definition of an Alliance. Might as well put my international studies minor to use.
1. Alliances are arrangements between states 2. Alliances are explicit agreements: it does not matter if the agreement is made explicit by a hand-shake between statesmen or by a formal treaty. The important thing is only that the participating parties themselves know with certainty that an agreement exists. Thus, they can calculate on this basis and form their expectations accordingly. This criterion distinguishes alliances from alignments which are only informal groupings of states based upon interests that give rise to mere implicit expectations.
3. Alliances deal with a certain behavior for a certain contingency in the future. Although most alliances also comprise some activities that take place for the whole time the treaty is in force, such as coordination of doctrines or joint exercises, the main part of an alliance is focused on a specific behavior that shall be followed in the event of a certain situation, the so-called casus foederis. This element distinguishes alliances from mere security cooperations or from non-aggression pacts which promise a certain behavior for the full period of duration of the agreement.
4. In connection with the last element, it is essential that the event for which the specified behavior is promised is uncertain: the partners do not know, when this occasion will occur nor if it will occur at all. This separates alliances from actual coalitions, which are formed in anticipation of a decision that will take place for certain at a more or less known point of time – such as an election or a war, for example. This element of uncertainty is very important because the pros and cons of the promise for a specific behavior to be expected differ decisively compared to a situation of certainty: when a state joins a war coalition, entanglement into the conflict is certain, when a state joins an alliance, however, entanglement is only a possibility that does not necessarily have to occur.
5. An alliance is a promise. Therefore, it has to be distinguished from the actual behavior shown by the state once the casus foederis has occurred. From this element together with element 3 described above follows the inherent insecurity of alliances and, therefore, – from the perspective of the allying partners – the problem of credibility or the risk of abandonment, which both cover just different views of the same problem.
6. The promise comprises an assistance in the event specified in the treaty (usually an attack on one of the partners). This assistance comes up to the use of one’s own resources for the defense of the other. How this is done in particular and exactly which kind of resources are covered by the alliance is not that important, the point is, however, that each of the partners can calculate with a substantial external contribution to its own resources in the case of an actual occurrence of the casus foederis. This element distinguishes alliances from neutrality pacts and from ententes: whereas neutrality pacts promise only not to augment the adversary’s resources, the promise of an entente comprises only the vague commitment of consultations in case of a crisis.
7. The promise is a mutual one. This means that each of the partners has to calculate not only the advantages of external assistance in the case of a serious threat but also the disadvantages of the risk of getting entangled in conflicts of the partner and, thus, of suffering high costs should this risk become reality. Unilateral guarantees are in many respects very similar to alliances, however, they differ in this point because in a guarantee relation one partner worries only about the risk of abandonment whereas the other is only concerned about the risk of entanglement.
8. Last but not least, the agreement falls into the realm of national security.
Ok, but you forgetting this, where is it saying We'll have to MILITARY help you if YOU're in Under attack? by "Help each other" can't we mean sharing intels?
MAP need more Clarification. Which this "terms" doesn't has. Like i said. Besides i don't take "ALLIANCE=MAP" in my opinion. In my word "Alliance" is NOT MAP.
so we're not Responsible if you Lose the "War." And i to be honest with you, we wanted to help you by sending troops, we told you why we couldn't. You didn't listen to US, posted in forums saying different things.
1) It can't mean sharing intels, because that was a separate part of our terms. Working together (1), Sharing intels (2) helping eachother out (3) and coordinate attacks (4).
Those are all 4 terms that you proposed. You can't merge and erase the other terms you disagree with.
You use the term alliance. In this game, as well as in the international community, the term Alliance is not vague. You aren't even fooling yourself with that. Your opinion is irrelevant in this case because when dealing with any contract the terms of Contra proferentem would rule in the favor of the receiver, NOT the drafter of the contract. Contracts are always negotiated to the benefit of the signer. Any ambiguity cannot benefit the drafter. There is no reputable free nation on Earth where that is the case.
You can say what you will about whether or not you can or can't send troops, whether or not you can or can't build a basic wall to impede troop movement (a tenement of the agreement, hence the valentines day scandal that we paid for).
Are you suggesting if someone DID have troops to spare and were to assist, or DID have magic to spare in this conflict with your ally, that they wouldn't be prosecuted or otherwise punished?
Because I've received messages from you that indicate two stories.
One story is "We want to help, but we are committed to wars far away."
The other story is "Many of our members are friends with Osi and well, we can't actually fight him, but he won't fight us either."
We Proved it before that it was just a NAP and we Proved it again. There is no need for us to wasting time in here. We've far more things to do then wasting time. We hereby can say that H&S will never be able to prove anything 'bout MAP with KoA.
To Chade, not trying to flame, just trying to teach a bit.
You can't change 3 centuries of an accepted definition of a term, or for that matter 10 years of an accepted definition of a term in game.
You also can't unilaterally redefine what the terms of an agreement are. IF you agree to four terms, then you agreed to four separate terms. And any time a contract is vague, you ALWAYS err on the side of the one with the weaker bargaining position. The Drafter is the one who has the responsibility to mitigate losses if they perceive that a deal is lopsided.
That is common law globally.
You asked "Why can't I say X Y and Z?" in regard to changing the meaning or defining vague terms ex post facto, and I told you why. Contra Proferentem.
And for Chade's benefit for an insult from a decade ago....
yeh these were just C+P messages over what a NAP and MAP is basically :D
i would like to make a suggestion, to all KD's on the map..... Nararins, N,A, KOH, Farmers and forsaken.
What if we all agree a 5 day NAP with HnS if..... if they break the already broken more than once "NAP" with azeroth, right away with no 72 hour cooldown time just for the pure fucktardery of what they did :P
(P.S my thoughts and suggestions have no reflection on my KD)
fcuk off mate.... i aint reading your entire msg, just read the 1st, the penultimate and last sentence...you all are tripping over a game. We, at KoH literally don't give a monkey about anything and we having fun....ya'll just writing sh1t :D :D
Kingdom of Azeroth agrees to become Alliance with your Kd H&S officially. Alliance
means we will work together, share our intels, help each other and even
coordinate attacks. Rules of Alliance: No attacking each other in Whole
Era; this includes any type of attacks, no giving any kind of kd intels
to any other kd; for example posting locations of KoA on forum. We'll
be waiting for your answer.
King Varian Wrynn Leader of Kingdom of Azeroth
- Not my business to butt in, but to honestly settle it out.
The Alliance agreement suggested of:
1) Working together - meaning in this generalized fashion to assist in all ASPECTS (because no other conditions were given) as mutually agreed pact. 2) Sharing Intels - like magic and army figures, counts as helping in a military/war. Magic counts as an attack, so basically reinforcing that rule. 3) Helping each other - Yet, still reinforcing #1, helping to work together in ALL ASPECTS (because no conditions were made precisely) that you both are to work together military/economically/defense/magic/movement. 4) Co-ordinated Attacks - Yet reinforcing to #1 and #3 (because there is no set conditions that precisely excludes such obligations). So you both are to co-ordinate (help each other) with each other's business. You have agreed upon the obligations that were generally agreed upon. 5) No attacking each other in Whole
Era - No magic intels, nor CWs, or attacks each other unless discussed upon to a mutual understanding.
If one side preferred to make changes in the agreement, it requires a proper message to request a change in the agreements. Since no detail had been set, then the other alliance failed to obligate in assisting the other.
A NAP (Non-Aggression Pact) - Essentially just agreed to NOT HELP EACH OTHER, and just work your own ways. Conditions can still be set like boundaries, and such. Can be temporary, or permanent.
A MAP (Mutual-Aggression Pact) - Essentially co-operating between two or more alliances in directly/indirectly involving with each other. Conditions can specify anything from help with borders/defense/intel/wars/etc, as long as it is specifically stated. Can be set temporarily, or permanent.
A CF (Cease Fire) - Essentially no attacks until a certain time period. Depending on what length of time between two or more alliance(s) agree upon. Often, people will send a message giving a 72 hour warning that an the agreement is dissolved, but yet can be negotiated specifically.
Alright ya newbies, that is something to read carefully. Otherwise we are going to end up with a few more pages of the same argument.
Varian, you're making KoA and especially yourself look worse and worse here.
Though I'm in KoA and will stay for this age out of loyalty, I agree with Bigfield regarding this issue. As a student and life-long studier of history, he is correct.
