Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / Believes Clash

Believes Clash
05:18:34 Jul 14th 06 - Mr. Jose Cleotilde Mendoza Gomez:

In this thread I’m going to just throw a topic out there. Then people will post here what they believe on the topic and we will have to disprove them or flame on there believes. You can also supports someone else’s believes .By the way, this will be real life issues.

 

 

 

First Topic: Homosexual Marriages  

  

 


(Edited by Mr. Jose Cleotilde Mendoza Gomez 7/14/2006 5:21:36 AM)


11:56:23 Jul 14th 06 - Viceroy Ghouma:

Homosexuals should ofc be allowed to marry each other. Thats given, however if the religious people dont want them to marry in Churches or Mosques or whatever I see no reason for them to be married there.

I dont see why *beep* people should choose a faith that condemns what your doing.


12:48:56 Jul 14th 06 - Viceroy Muhammed:

Ofc you cannot force a church to marry homsexuals, but since you cannot do that you should give the same legal privilegdes to ppl(among those homosexuals) who choose to marry w/o religion involved.


12:56:37 Jul 14th 06 - King Oya:

if homosexuals want to make their partnership "official" like a marriage then hell they can, i think society has grown to accept this and really it is the older generations who are finding it harder to let go of their morals etc.


13:45:46 Jul 14th 06 - Viceroy Engelhardus:

Personally, I think homosexuals shouldn't marry at all. I know that we all have equal right and etc etc but humanity has lived over two thousand years without ghey marriage and suddenly they need it? Kinda odd. I hear ya'll screaming already 'Who are you to deny them the right to marriage?'. I have no right to deny them marriage but I personally feel that it is wrong. In my oppinion marriage is an institution between one man and one woman, not between two of the same sex. Call me ol' fasion but I also feel that two of the same gender can't properly raise a child.

My personal feel, I can't win this battle simpely because for every argument in favor of banning ghey marriage there is a counter argument. Every man is 'equal' and should be treated as such, so states the law.

I know I'll bonk a few heads with my oppinion but hey, that great law also states that we have freedom of speach, haleluja!


15:57:56 Jul 14th 06 - Admiral Krum:

I don't believe in marriage....so I don't really care if a monkey and an elephant decided to get married. We all know they'll divorce within 2 years anyway...

Btw Engel, if you call yourself old fashioned, then divorce should be out of the question for you, because it's against most religions.


21:04:38 Jul 14th 06 - Sir Naerey:

Huh? there were divorces in ancient greece.


22:23:37 Jul 14th 06 - Admiral Krum:

Engel, I deleted your last post for the last comment.

Anymore homophobic/racial comments in this thread will result in a lock. I personaly feel that the maturity level of those in this forum is not high enough for a thread like this. We'll soon find out.


22:56:15 Jul 14th 06 - Viceroy Engelhardus:

Yeah.. I figured that it probably would be deleted.

I agree with you that the maturity level is not high enough, mainly because of fella's like myself. Ohwell... it was an oppinion :p freedom of speach, fun, anyone? ^^


04:46:46 Jul 15th 06 - Viceroy Chuck Norris:

I am kind of both ways, I think it should not be allowed, but at the same time if they want to ruin their lives like that then so be it. Marriage is the joining of a man and a woman, think about it...our anatomy...it almost makes sense....almost..

 The thing that really shivers my timbers is how people want equal rights but less punishment. It's just plain stupid...but then, thats humanity for ya!!


07:18:59 Jul 15th 06 - Viceroy Bonnie Davina:

Admiral Krum


7/14/2006 10:23:37 PM
Engel, I deleted your last post for the last comment.

Anymore homophobic/racial comments in this thread will result in a lock. I personaly feel that the maturity level of those in this forum is not high enough for a thread like this. We'll soon find out.

I agree, this is a war game, not a political forum.  This is also not subject matter for all involved in this game to be reading anyways.  

Instead, debate the merits of whether or not Mc Donald's fries tastes better fried in vegetarian oil, or regular oil.  Safe enough subject.  There.  =)


(Edited by Viceroy Bonnie Davina 7/15/2006 7:21:25 AM)


10:18:38 Jul 15th 06 - Viceroy Ghouma:

Chuck norris, since marriage brings some legal stuff it should be available to anyone. It is legal for *beep* persons to marry; the question is weather it should be allowed in churches wich I dont really support.

Bonnie, sicne people are from most parts of the world in VU it gets interesting to discuss this kind of thing. For example when we discussed religion for like 8 months ago or something there were like 5 peope (from USA ofc) saying that the world was 4000 years old :).


16:17:10 Jul 15th 06 - Viceroy Chuck Norris:

Thats what I meant...

And of course it should not, whether you are a religous person or not, the church does not condone homosexuality and it therefor should not be done. For example, the Bible (whichever version you want) for arguments sake I'll use king james, man was created from the dust of the earth, and then later woman was created FROM man FOR man. Woman was created so man wouldn't be lonely. God didn't create another man, and he didn't create a woman and then make another for her. A man, and a woman was created. The institution of marriage, is designed for a man and woman, not 2 of the same sex.

Homosexuality is not in our design, whether you believe in a God, or want to be silly and say that everything we know was all by chance in the infinity of the universe (which is a totally different argument, please don't start that here).

In any case, there are men, and there are women, and our anatomies are not made for homosexuality. A man can not get another man pregnant, and a woman can not get another woman pregnant ( in the conventional sense). Sex, as in all species, is a reproductive action, taken between a male, and a female. It's purpose is to reproduce, therefor you can not argue that homosexuality is 'built in' to our anatomy. Yea I'll agree that some people may believe it so strongly in their heads that they 'become' homosexual. The mind is very powerful, but that still doesn't make it part of our make-up.


16:32:40 Jul 15th 06 - Mr. Inactive:

It isnt in our anatomy to fly either ;)

who cares what an old fiction book says about how people should live thier lives. if they want to marry who are you to stop them? its not like marriage actually means a lot these days.


16:50:37 Jul 15th 06 - Viceroy Doggy:

"The institution of marriage, is designed for a man and woman, not 2 of the same sex."

I disagree on that point, given that cultures the world around, long before and long after the bible was written, have had marriage as a financial institution. It is designed so that a girl (who was typically seen as not quite as valuable as a boy because boys were seen as better at hunting, farming, etc) can be passed off to another family so the burden of a mouth to feed is lifted. Dowries were paid to sweeten the deal. Then the husband and wife had a combined set of holdings (land, livestock, whatever) that they could pool together to survive and afford to raise kids.

Now the history lesson is done and I say: what's wrong with letting a couple of men get together so that they can be granted the financial and tax benefits of a married couple under the LAW (forget religion)? Stuff like loans and insurance and whatnot can be tied into the fact that you're married. So ya, just make a new word for financial marriage so some people won't be offended about it anymore and totally dodge the religious debate =P


(Edited by Viceroy Doggy 7/15/2006 4:51:35 PM)


17:59:44 Jul 15th 06 - Mr. Jose Cleotilde Mendoza Gomez:

I’ll just say this:

 

 

I believe it was the Greeks who said, “Man to man love is the most beautiful things there is.” Then they said, “Women are just for reproductive purposes.”

 

 

 

Viceroy Chuck Norris


7/15/2006 4:17:10 PM

Thats what I meant...

And of course it should not, whether you are a religous person or not, the church does not condone homosexuality and it therefor should not be done. For example, the Bible (whichever version you want) for arguments sake I'll use king james, man was created from the dust of the earth, and then later woman was created FROM man FOR man. Woman was created so man wouldn't be lonely. God didn't create another man, and he didn't create a woman and then make another for her. A man, and a woman was created. The institution of marriage, is designed for a man and woman, not 2 of the same sex.

Homosexuality is not in our design, whether you believe in a God, or want to be silly and say that everything we know was all by chance in the infinity of the universe (which is a totally different argument, please don't start that here).

In any case, there are men, and there are women, and our anatomies are not made for homosexuality. A man can not get another man pregnant, and a woman can not get another woman pregnant ( in the conventional sense). Sex, as in all species, is a reproductive action, taken between a male, and a female. It's purpose is to reproduce, therefor you can not argue that homosexuality is 'built in' to our anatomy. Yea I'll agree that some people may believe it so strongly in their heads that they 'become' homosexual. The mind is very powerful, but that still doesn't make it part of our make-up.

I believe this is self explanatory.

 

(I don't know if what the Greeks said was true.I just thougth I should add some wood to the fire.) 


22:21:02 Jul 15th 06 - Viceroy Ghouma:

Well, seems it comes down to weather you base your view on this issue on facts or on faith.

I think its time to change subject. How about the current crissis in the middle east, Israels invasion of Lebanon?


23:59:10 Jul 15th 06 - Mr. Aladin:

I'm sorry Ghouma that i have to stick to the old subject but i just felt i had to since I'm a christian.

God is without fault, all his creations are without fault and he has a plan for everything, so then why if god created homosexuality should not homosexual people be able to marry in propper christian churches?

Even if I'm christian i do not reject science i rather embrace it and scientific research shows that homosexual peoples brains interperate the pheremones that our bodies send out as if they were the opposite sex and bisexuals interperate both as if they were the same.

For example a homosexual mans brain thinks that male pheremones are female pheremones and vice versa.

So if god wanted this chemical reaction in the homosexual peoples brains to happen then why cant they be married in a church as long as they'r christian?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do not support the invasion of Lebanon since it says clearly in the bible that you shouldnt kill and you should'nt want another mans wife and property. I'm not sure but i really think that the jews belive in those two as well... And what to you do when you invade something? You steal their land (which i belive is something bad in jewish religion as well ( i dont know the correct word in english) and you kill either all or some of the inhabitants of that land. I do not care if Hisbolah has captured two of the israeli soldiers or rather i do care, i say good riddance since soldiers kill and i do not like killers. Hisbolah are not terrorists in this case but rather they are rising up to fight alongside the palestinians which are defending themselves against israel... I'd say vaulanteers for a noble cause, although this noble cause may quicly become rotten if they turn against purely civilian targets.


00:03:48 Jul 16th 06 - Mr. Jose Cleotilde Mendoza Gomez:

Okay…okay…only I say when we change topic. This is my little world here and I’m god here.

 

 

 

 

 

Okay now we change subject.


01:50:49 Jul 16th 06 - Viceroy Chuck Norris:

so then why if god created homosexuality should not homosexual people be able to marry in propper christian churches?

Because he didn't...you ever heard of Satan? Let me once again state "man was created from the dust of the earth, and then later woman was created FROM man FOR man. Woman was created so man wouldn't be lonely. God didn't create another man, and he didn't create a woman and then make another for her. A man, and a woman was created. The institution of marriage, is designed for a man and woman, not 2 of the same sex."

Satan corrupted gods work, and the reason god doesn't intercede is something you should know as a christian. I'm not sure what denomination you are, but maybe you should pay more attention in church? It was gods intention that man have woman, so he wouldn't be alone.

If you want to argue about scientific points on it, then how about the studies that have shown that if someone believes something, for example that they are dying, that their mind can make it so real, they can acctually die. Or people who have such real halucinations they have to become institutionalized from fear.

I don't know if this example is true, but I read in, I think a magazine, that some girl was raped, and believed so hard that she had been impregnated that she began to show signs of pregnancy, even though x-rays and what not proved her wrong.

 

And I kkind of lost my train of thought on where I was going with this ultimately so I'm going to leave it at this because I'm too lazy to read it all over and try to remember what it was.


02:00:55 Jul 16th 06 - Sir Naerey:

Bonnie Davina says: I agree, this is a war game, not a political forum.  This is also not subject matter for all involved in this game to be reading anyways. 

Oh can I PLEASE sing my Warcry then??? It's rated 25+ but... it's a war game!



And on topic..
1. Satan is a myth.
2. God is a myth.
3. There are no myths in christian religion, which disproves it's existance... so.. THE END.

(Edited by Sir Naerey 7/16/2006 2:03:14 AM)


10:39:20 Jul 16th 06 - Mr. Aladin:

Do you belive that god is without fault? I do, and i belive that it was his intention that satan would fall from grace becouse god is omnipotent and angels are not.

Btw, does anyone know why only mexicans see jesus's face in muffins etc? Are they the real people of god or what?


12:31:14 Jul 16th 06 - Sir Naerey:

Ohhh aladin...
"Do you belive that god is without fault? I do, and i belive that it was his intention that satan would fall from grace becouse god is omnipotent and angels are not."

So he IS omnipotent???
Thus he can create a stone so heavy he can't lift?
But if he's omnipotent he is supposed to be able to lift it. And if he does it means he didn't create a stone so heavy he couldn't lift!
Ha! What now!??!


20:10:07 Jul 16th 06 - Viceroy Engelhardus:

beer? :x


02:54:42 Jul 17th 06 - Sir Naerey:

thank you. now go away


06:28:20 Jul 17th 06 - Viceroy Chuck Norris:

Hey...ever heard the phrase "blind faith"...

You blindly believe there isn't a god when there is no proof that there isn't one. I believe there is a god, and I no one will ever be able to prove he exists. The whole thing about faith is believing in something you can't see. Is it really so hard to believe that there COULD BE a god? I see more proof FOR his existance and less against it every day. With every thing I see, smell, touch...

Because I find it hard to believe, that even in an "infinite" universe with infinite possibilities, that a world would appear, capable of sustaining life, that would then evolve from sludge, to the current incredibly smart race known as humans. With every little protein, and carbohydrate, and DNA and everything as incredibly complex as it is, and all the different species all as complex as they are, and plants, stars, other planets. I just find it hard to believe that in an infinite universe with infinite possibilites how so many solar systems and planets and stars and galaxies could be layed out how they are by mere chance. And then could I not argue that in a universe of infinite possibilites, shouldn't there be more chaos? Should more random events be occurring?

Or is it not even possible that in the infinite universe with infinite possibilites that a "god" figure was created? Impossible? Your own flawed reasoning is your downfall. It's called faith for a reason, I believe in something I can not see.


07:45:09 Jul 17th 06 - Viceroy Ghouma:

First off all, lets agree not to quote some scientist form one of ur evanlegical universities. Or anyone else from outside VU for that matter since no one is gonna read the *beep* when you do.

Second, when I worked with repairing subways there was a drug addict who reasoned like you. Of course if I was raised by christian parents I might have been christian. And I accually think its good that you are a strong belvier not an agnostic cause I wouldnt waste my time trying to discuss it with ya then.

Third, whats most logic
a
: A god exist and he has created the universe. This god where did he come from? How was he created? Why does he have this power? Why the heck does he look like a human if he resides in space (did he have space monkey ancestors?) Why didnt he just create a sun and the earth, why create so much that has no point for humans?

Seriously one can go on forever...

b: The scientific theory with Evolution and bigbang.


08:35:24 Jul 17th 06 - Viceroy Blackadder:

Religon is a manipulative organisation to control the minds of humankind.  the Christain sect of religion is one of the most divided and causes the most destructive forces on this earth.  Religion has caused more wars, death, and depravation of humankind than anything else in this world.

The longest war in the world lasting over 300 years was fought between catholics and podestains, in Ireland.  Killing innocent people.  In the Crusades, good Christain Knights in the name of God, put to the sword, killing over 5000, women and children, because they were not Christain, no wonder the islam hates christainity.  The Catholic Church is the richest company in the world and does it's best to protect itself and it's riches and position.  It hides it's history and anyone who questions it's teaching are heretics.

Call me cynical, and i am, but don't preach to me about it because unless you fully live what you believe in every way, if you don't you are like all the others, a bunch of hypotrics.

 


11:01:35 Jul 17th 06 - Sir Belzebub:

Well its time for me to get my feet wet as well. O muse sing in me that I may flame!

haha Mr Aladin you are a very funny man, a couple of posts back you said that "all his creations are without fault" O please kind and merciful god save me from your followers! Mr Aladin have you every heard of Romans 3:23? It goes a little (and by "a little" I mean exactly) like this: "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."  Asleep that day in church?  Well might I direct you instead towards the garden of eden, the flood, Sodom and Gomorrah (not one good person in the town could be found)...hmmmm there seems to be a theme here i just can't put my finger on it...and everyday life for crying out loud.  I plead again Lord if you do truly exist then spare me from the vile horror that is the average christian.  You see Blackadder the problem with christianity really isn't christianity its christians.  If you took the christians out of christianity then it would be a wonderful thing.  Jesus was all about love above silly rules (he told the Pharisees to take a long walk off a short peer when they criticized him for healing people on the sabbath...Black Sabbath...sorry i got destracted)  but certain people *cough* catholic church *cough* just manifest it very poorly.  Then moving on towards the factanistas and the proofshtoppo (if you have no idea what in the hell i just said plz watch the Colbert Report) I ask you this: How can something come from nothing?  The peopled cried "how can all this exist? it must have been created." The scientists replied "Easy it was all created in the big bang." but where did the material for the big bang come from?  Logically something that is eternal has to have created everything (now whether you want to think its god or not I frankly don't care).

I hope that I have succeded in offending everyone 

 


11:39:35 Jul 17th 06 - Viceroy Blackadder:

you have not offended me LOL, problem is i regard the bible as a very loose interpretation of anything orginal. it has changed so much since it was written, and to interprete what the author wanted us to think in his beliefs. as i said i'm a cynic, and unless you live the life you believe then you are hippocritical. remember the oppositie of live is evil.  :-)


15:38:48 Jul 17th 06 - Viceroy Ghouma:

Belzebub, the Human civilization is very young and so is our art of thinking. Please please explain why you think we should have all ansvers on how the universe was created already...... Thanks to superstiutious people we mgith never know thoose things since the earth is in such a bad shape. Spare me of your nonsence.

"If you took the christians out of christianity then it would be a wonderful thing." How is the book of Job a wonderfull thing? The old testament is full of evil acts by god.



15:55:02 Jul 17th 06 - Sir Naerey:

The old testament is full of evil acts by god.

really? like what?


15:56:10 Jul 17th 06 - Viceroy Ghouma:

Like the book of Job.


17:02:48 Jul 17th 06 - Viceroy Chuck Norris:

Belzebub, the Human civilization is very young and so is our art of thinking. Please please explain why you think we should have all ansvers on how the universe was created already...... Thanks to superstiutious people we mgith never know thoose things since the earth is in such a bad shape. Spare me of your nonsence

 

Ahahaha, you fool!!!!   We shouldn't, but thats the exact reason you can NOT say that the universe was created in the big bang and there is no god. WOOT WOOT!!!!!!!!!!


17:12:33 Jul 17th 06 - Sir Belzebub:

O hell Ghouma were you asleep in church too? Didn't hear the last half of the story of Job did you?  And as for all this "spare me of your nonsense" talk I was merely trying to teach Aladin a little about the religeon HE believes, I wasn't advocating one thing or the other.  It never ceases to amaze me how as soon as you mention god people think that you are preaching to them.  Then we move on towards your next comment which is: "Please please explain why you think we should have all ansvers on how the universe was created already."  The simple answer is that I don't think we should have all the answers and gee I don't recall ever saying that we should.  To explain my "Something doesn't come from nothing" arguement I was merely doing a bit of philosophizing perhaps you've heard of it?  Perhaps instead of destroying every idea you should create some of your own.  Then back to you blackadder (*shakes fist because he wasn't offended*) did you know that you can get the bible in ye olde hebrew? tada! no more translation flaw! and blackadder there are a lot of horrible christians out there (as i said in my previous post) but to be fair people in general pretty much suck. 

O yes and blackadder I hate you and as I take a sip from my glass that I'm sure someone spit in I hope that the bad things in life all happen to you and only you ; ) 


18:07:11 Jul 17th 06 - King Oya:

i think Ghouma nailed it on the head with the reasons of gods existance is so illogical. and i thought this topic was about homosexuals i think this just shows you how faith truly blinds peoples reason, the narrow minded really on things people will tell them, it is comforting to know you have purpose on earth and that when you die your creator will judge you. accepting you death this blindly will lead to war which sadly has happened. People say to be a christian is to do good and the right thing, well i say to you people, do the right thing purely on the basis that its the right thing not your religious believes, God is flawed on so many levels because it was a creation of man, as soon as people set aside their faith in place of reason the world would become a better place. People will start to say where is your proof that god was created by man, simply because chrisitanity and other "opposing" religions are relativly young when you consider the time modern humans have lived. but i suppose it was Gods intention to discriminate the rest of the world for a group in the middle east....why are they the chosen people? why were we all not chosen? or was it because they were being oppressed by a roman/egyptian tirrany


18:11:17 Jul 17th 06 - Sir Naerey:

SCIENCE OWNS YOU.


18:22:59 Jul 17th 06 - Sir Naerey:

Well, I've grown with my dad being a physicist, talking about nucleouses and all... and my mother a believed ~a lot in god.. I've never seen anything that would confirm the existance of God, but much to confirm that he doesn't care much about us people.
So, even if he DOES exist, he doesn't give a *beep* about us.
The theory of evolution has got much more proof than god's existance. Go google it. And anyways, you can clearly see that we did come from monkeys (look around you, some still haven't evolved completely yet!!). So.... God created monkeys? or God gave knowledge to those monkeys? I would almost believe the latter one... but then again, it took a few thousand years to get the fire... either God speaks really slow for us, or he didn't think fire was necessary .. then what DID he give us?
The world? O praise him for that allright, but what about the moon and everything? he created that as well but no 'humans' there? like he only plays one game? or the other game he plays is so far away we can't see it?
There are ~many~ reasons to think that God doesn't exist.
But for some strange reason, ~many~ people believe God DOES exist...


19:16:54 Jul 17th 06 - Viceroy Ghouma:

No Belzebub I didnt sleep in scool (not in basic school atleast) but I was 7 yrs old when we were taugh about the bible. And Im not gonna bother myself rereading it now.

Alright so you want to be philosofical. Caus you religious lot never tend to ansver the philsophical questions. Again, i*beep*od created evrything he would have to come from somewhere aswell. So in both cases we have something created out of nothing. But you say that something living who is omnipotent got the power over all of the universe was created. We cant understand the theological explantaions and the scientific isnt complete but wich one is most logical?

Regarding what oya and naeray said, there are milions of paradoxes on what christianity is, to many for it to be belived by anyone with an open mind. Some people need religion, and it has served a point in our development by helping to form stronger bonds within the community. However in this age it has served its point and is just a danger for humanity.


19:55:38 Jul 17th 06 - Admiral Krum:

God created man, and man created God.

Life is a paradox.


20:30:02 Jul 17th 06 - Viceroy Chuck Norris:

Naerey, there are still unknown facts about the past, about the origins of the earth, of fire, of us, etc etc. You can't say that man created fire millions of years ago or whatever, because you simply don't know. Sure using sicence may say well fire COULD have been created millions of years ago, but there is no proof that is 100% solid...You see thats the thing about science, when it comes to something from the past, like mummies, old pottery, etc, even carbon dating isn't exact. You ever see those shows when the scientist goes "Oh wow I've never seen a mummy this preserved before, it must be millions of years old..."

Or not...science is not always exact, its an art, prone to being misinterpreted. Even math has it's 'interpretation' mistakes. How do you think some of the greatest formulas of all time came about? On accident.


20:51:47 Jul 17th 06 - Viceroy Ghouma:

Whats ur point, dont come here saying the world is 4000 years old again...:

Mordern men has only been around for ~40.000 years anyway so I dont really get what ur trying to say.


21:08:11 Jul 17th 06 - Sir Naerey:

Woodchuck, science is WAY more precise than religion is.
The bible... regarding some Armageddon is coming soon, since there's a country with a million of military to the east (china)... the holy land is there again (israel created in 40's or so)... and some other crap.
When armageddon happens, I'll believe in God. Though the bible says that would be too late... but then again God is forgiving...

Right. So  we can't precisely say how old is earth, but the bible can... and, it's wrong. Unless your god created a 'history' for us to explore and put us to trial in our faith....

And who is the Holy Spirit, The Son, and The Father? One person.... paradox? righttttt..... you can't be your own father for heaven's sake. that would be *beep*ing your mother which i don't think is christian....


22:08:25 Jul 17th 06 - Viceroy Ghouma:

Well, the real question would be how to know what faith to follow. Chuck, maybe you can help me out here, what makes you 100% sure just ur faith is the true one?


22:41:06 Jul 17th 06 - Admiral Krum:

Theres no such thing as which faith is true. Faith is simply that...faith. It does not matter which religion you believe in, it's your faith that matters. There's no truth or evidence needed, that is the purpose of faith.


23:25:03 Jul 17th 06 - Viceroy Oya:

true Krum, but for humanity to take a step forward and mature, as as a whole we are all very naive and ignorant we have to let go of blind faith, like ghouma said its served its purpose, change is hard for most to handle but change is enevitable.


23:53:28 Jul 17th 06 - Viceroy Doggy:

I'm totally with Oya and Ghouma here. It may frighten some people to entertain the thought that God is a mythological character just like Jupiter and Zeus and the giant turtle who's back the earth supposedly rests on. There are thousands of stories about how existance came to be, and yet only one is accepted by the average christian. Why? They say something like "well we have pics form space showing that there is clearly no turtle." What is that? An appeal to science to confirm your religion.

What does a christian do when you use an appeal to science to DISprove some matter of faith? They ignore it and call it faith. Well fine- you believe that, and I'll believe there is a bigass mother-bleeping turtle in space carrying the world but it is divinely immune to being seen on camera because (insert random half-baked religious sounding "proof" here that my turtle-priest would smack me for making up on the spot just to continue a losing discussion when really I should have asked him instead of making the rest of my turtle-followers look foolish.) *pant pant pant*


(Edited by Viceroy Doggy 7/17/2006 11:55:07 PM)


04:14:05 Jul 18th 06 - Viceroy Chuck Norris:

The point, as was so well put by Krum, is not what you believe, but rather THAT you believe.

If God wanted to prove his existence he could, but the idea is that then everyone would believe and it would be pointless. The reason he doesn't interfere is to give us the free will to follow him on our own. I don't know if you've ever noticed, but if you hold someone at gun point and tell him to worship you and he does, it's not as meaningful as if the person worshiped you on his own. 

Plus, even if he did come to earth and perform miracles, those people that believe so strongly that he doesn't exists would say it's just magic and try to find ways to disprove it. 

And Doggy, the reason christians try to use science to help prove his existence or whatever is to try and explain it in a way the scientific people will understand.

And no one ever religion was exact. You see, the thing is the church can never be perfect or exact, and the reason being that WE are involved with it. Humans are an imperfect race, no one is prefect, if humans WERE perfect, we would all be apathetic and never do anything. Because what would be the point in doing anything if we are perfect?

Let me explain it like this, if there was a perfect religion, no one would be allowed in it.


05:07:26 Jul 18th 06 - Viceroy Doggy:

Well we agree on one thing, it isn't perfect =P Not that science is....it's just another religion, frankly (well for most of us anyway) so yeah... I think that's me on this.


06:57:15 Jul 18th 06 - Mr. Belzebub:

Ghouma about my whole philosophizing bussiness when i said something doesn't come from nothing I meant that it makes sense that something has always existed.  Now whether this is god or merely the material to make the big bang I (now listen carefully) don't give a flying *beep*.  It just stands to reason that there was something at the beginning that was not created (or else you get the never ending chain of something being created by something else which was in turn created by something else ect).  And as for calling me part of the "religeous lot" I take offense.  I in no way said that I was a christian, I merely know something about christianity (and most religeons for that matter).  The topic was christianity so i used my knowledge of it to discuss, now if the topic was about Zoroastrianism I would be happy to indulge as well.  Or if you want to get into science I can speak quite competently about psychology (just i sadly don't know a lot about evolution, it seems to boring and unapplicable).  Also Ghouma why would you use the book of job as an example to show how bad god is if you knew you didn't know what in the hell you were talking about?  The best substitute for intelligence is silence or if you prefer the maxim: better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

I look forward to you misinterpreting my post :)

P.S. "But you say that something living who is omnipotent got the power over all of the universe was created. " When did i say that god damn it all to hell!? stop putting words in my mouth.


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