Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / Ben Stein CBS interview

Ben Stein CBS interview
01:04:26 Oct 24th 07 - Mr. Ghoumzter:

Are you people *beep*ing retarded? Christians take up as many % of the prison population as there are christians, atheists in proportion is 25 times less likly to be in prisson.



01:36:05 Oct 24th 07 - Lady Lacewing:

1) You did not specify anything about proportions.  That does not make all of us retarded :)

2) You still have not given numbers, proof, evidence.

3) You have not proved the correlation of inmates to religion due to religion itself.


03:28:51 Oct 24th 07 - Mr. Sun:

1) from his # posted, the proportion is trivial.

2) i think he posted the source already

3) however, this does not indicate a direct correlation.
for example, lets suppose all immigrants are non-Christians, and majority of non-immigrants are Christians. It could be that the non-immigrants commit more crime, and end up in jail; while the immigrants seldomly commit crime (maybe a cultural influence in their home countries against Crime) and rarely end up in jail. In this case, we see a higher proportion of ppl in Jail as Christians, but this is not directly due to Christianity, it could be due to other factors in culture difference. Just an example from thin air. (A correlate with B, A correlate with C, this makes B and C seemingly correlated, but they may not be directly in a one way causal relationship)


10:32:25 Oct 24th 07 - Mr. Ghoumzter:

I dont accually remember where I picked that up I googled it and found this. I got annoyed because you guys didnt think it was in proportion wich would be extremly ridicolous.

And no its not fair, the larger part of the athesits are most likly part of the American middleclass while the poor and more uneducated people who commit most crime are more religious. It may not be fair though but still intresting, people like this Ben Stein retard who think morals and *beep* comes from religion are out of their minds.


11:25:15 Oct 24th 07 - Mr. Dragonfly:

i have one the west is rich africa is poor..
becouse africa doesnt always do what the west say.(they know whats best for them) Thats the reason they are poor and the west is rich.



11:27:48 Oct 24th 07 - Mr. Dragonfly:

:P
But seriously for cristians it doesnt matter who you are, you are worth being a christian same for other main religeons (not jews).
Atheist only want educated people and stuff who are already rich.


11:29:16 Oct 24th 07 - Mr. Dragonfly:

the rich and wealthy think they dont need a god.
You only remember him in your time of need.


12:11:24 Oct 24th 07 - Mr. Ghoumzter:

I didnt get your first post about africa, care to explain?

....The rich and wealthy? I didnt know I was rich, accually I think the american upperclass is very religious, the atheists you will find in the educated middleclass. Your posts are rubbish if you ask me...


13:02:00 Oct 24th 07 - Mr. Dragonfly:

that was a reply to a old post. but nvmd.


13:52:44 Oct 24th 07 - Sir Patton:

Alright, now let's go a bit deeper behind the numbers. Possibilities can include:

A: America can be considered a 'Christian' nation and some people can profess Christianity and not be one.

B. This is actually pretty common, alot of people who go to prison do become Christians while in there but weren't when they were doing the crime.

C. You can have Christians stray from the path and do wrong, we're not perfect here people.

Now do me a favor, and check out the largest % of people doing crimes in a country like... Egypt. Lemme know how the %s are there, and we'll talk about lawbreaking muslims.


15:53:38 Oct 24th 07 - Mr. Soccerfreedom:

i can not even understand most people posting in here. impossible to have a debate, if u ask me.

first, off that study was done years ago (1997) when professing u 'found god' in prison was very helpful in getting out earlier.

second, only 80% of inmates are known. thats pretty low, especially with the fact that people who are atheist would not care about a survey regarding religion. im sure if we could find data on that last 20%, a significant portion would be atheist, who couldnt have been bothered answering a survey on religion.


16:08:15 Oct 24th 07 - Mr. Dragonfly:

ghoum i know very rich ppl can be religeos but my resopse was to others who talked about atheism as if tehy where better then religeos ppl. i dont know what counts for you. And i know educated and rich are not the same thing but i do meant atheists even if not that rich act like a diffrent class(thinking they know better and label religous people as stupid) even if they dont say it or admit to themselves.
bye saying this i label them but thats just my opinion what i read in the forums bye people who claim they are atheists.


16:12:47 Oct 24th 07 - Mr. Sun:

@dragonfly

atheists find speghetti monster god just as conceivable as any other religion, they use logics to turn away from religion.

here is the latest religion topic on teamliquid.net that i frequently visit. i've read every single posts in that topic to be informed. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=61381


17:56:49 Oct 24th 07 - Mr. Ghoumzter:

You visit teamliquid, playing starcraft alot?

Sure, there are some things about thoose stats that are worth keeping in mind, they still speak though, in america you are much, much less lilkly to be a criminal if your an atheist.

Im an atheist and I accually think Atheists are better people then religious, all dont  but im sure alot of us do, its not that strange, the belife in god is so illogical that you begin to wonder what problems the religious people have.


19:01:12 Oct 24th 07 - Lady Lacewing:

"Sure, there are some things about thoose stats that are worth keeping in mind, they still speak though, in america you are much, much less lilkly to be a criminal if your an atheist."

Yes, but religion itself is just a tiny piece of the correlation, if any at all.  Stats speak, but they also can lie.  Especially if you are looking for them to, which is the site's aim.

"Im an atheist and I accually think Atheists are better people then religious, all dont  but im sure alot of us do, its not that strange, the belife in god is so illogical that you begin to wonder what problems the religious people have."

Which is, more or less, the same thing religious people may say about athiests.  Whether or not you believe the earth is 5000 years old for close to 5 billion does not speak anything of ethics, or how you treat your neighbor, or whether you pull a gun and shoot someone you don't like.

After all, what is Christianity but an standard of moral codes?  Not that dissimilar from the laws found in every civilized country in the world.  If you believe in justice, or inspiration, or right and wrong, you are putting your trust in a manmade concept, just as a religious peson would be putting in a god.


19:14:13 Oct 24th 07 - Mr. Sun:

@Ghoumzter well i dont play much sc recently, watch vods once in a while still

___________

Problems only appear when someone is extremely religious to the point of losing common sense. It's all good when you are reading bible to learn how to treat others with respect. Though there are a lot of argument to show that moral does not come from God/Bible. Comparing atheists and religious ppl as better or worse is the not the right thing to do. Perhaps one is able to think for himself more than the other. It is easier for your life to have faith, you have a mental support with God. There are many reasons and argument for the cause of religion listed in the link i provided ;)

P.S. SC rulez all other RTS.


23:21:25 Oct 24th 07 - Mr. Dakarius:

Why do aetheist feel such a burning desire to "enlighten" the believers in god?


23:33:24 Oct 24th 07 - Mr. Ignorentia:

and vice versa ?         join th real world, blue pill, red pill ...


23:41:28 Oct 24th 07 - Mr. Ghoumzter:

Good post Sun, I agree with almost all of it.

Intresting to see how Blizzard perfected the ballance of starcraft but failed misserably with Warcraft 3, hopefully SC2 will be a great game.

This thread is now about starcraft btw.


23:57:09 Oct 24th 07 - Ms. Dung Beetle:

 Thank God

 

:P (I just LOVE puns)

 

 

Ahem

 

On a serious note, I have been playing VU now for over 3 years, do you people know how many times i have seen a god/no god thread? Geez, you would think the debate would have gotten old after the 3rd thread:P


00:06:02 Oct 25th 07 - Lady Lacewing:

It's been going on for millenia.  And it's not likely to end soon!


00:08:33 Oct 25th 07 - Mr. Arthion:

"the belife in god is so illogical that you begin to wonder what problems the religious people have."

Care to explain what those problems are.


00:13:17 Oct 25th 07 - Mr. Ghoumzter:

No because it would just get you to start flaming.


02:41:59 Oct 25th 07 - Mr. Arthion:

I do not flame people, hes is the one who started flaming Christians by saying they have problems.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

you thought I might start flaming even though he did first; like Ben Stein said Christians are pushed around, so you decided I was in the wrong even though I did nothing but try and defend what I believe.



03:37:38 Oct 25th 07 - Mr. Sun:

and atheists other religions are not pushed around? :)

ppl get pushed around everywhere in the world.

p.s." i see a black sheep, so all the sheeps are black."

p.p.s. "i dont tell you what to do, and you dont tell me what to do"

p.p.p.s doubt sc2 will be balanced when it first come out.


10:16:27 Oct 25th 07 - Mr. Ghoumzter:

Ah cmon, christians used to kill people of other religions and atheists, lets at least be able to discuss religion and not be botherd about if its politicly correct...


14:14:43 Oct 25th 07 - Sir Patton:

That's the catholics man, and I'm not going to get into that debate as if they're totally 'Christian'.


15:28:02 Oct 25th 07 - Mr. Sun:

Sir Patton

Report


10/25/2007 8:14:43 AM
That's the catholics man, and I'm not going to get into that debate as if they're totally 'Christian'

 

smart :p i dont think any of us here have much deep knowledge in philosophy to debate this correctly... or i could be wrong :P

*waits for philosophy master degree guys to pop out*


15:50:59 Oct 25th 07 - Lady Lacewing:

Ooh, ooh, I do!

...

Okay, fine, so I don't.  But I'm pretty good at BS :)


16:44:19 Oct 25th 07 - Mr. Abu Yusef:

wow people calm down .


17:38:13 Oct 25th 07 - Lord Carnage:

Christians divide into:
catholics
orthodox
other minor factions.

The orthodox split from the catholics some 8 centuries back.

And until recently, the Catholics considered themselves as "true" christians, and so did the orthodox..
A christian is someone who thinks Christ is the saviour.

Muslims recognize Christ as a prophet, and consider their religion an "updated" version of the Christians...


And yes Christians used to do Crusades (orthodox hadn't split yet... ).


18:56:44 Oct 25th 07 - Mr. Ghoumzter:

Did you just make that up Carnage?


19:17:51 Oct 25th 07 - Mr. Ignorentia:

the divisions (schisma's) themselves show how 'shaky' your claims about your god are ...

 which is exactly why you should think twice about believing everything your religion says ...    after all, are you really sure about it?


20:14:17 Oct 25th 07 - Ms. Dung Beetle:

Sorry, posted in wrong thread, never mind me:)


20:34:06 Oct 25th 07 - Mr. Abu Yusef:

Muslims recognize Christ as a prophet, and consider their religion an "updated" version of the Christians...

i only talk when i defend islam

actually christians are the update of jews , while muslims are the last good followers as god say in the first sura of koran

"i gave the reall holy way to muslims and not to those who just got out of it , amen"

well jews say they are god's favorite people , and that god work for them

and chritions say that you will enter heaven even if you worshipped satan cuz jesus got the killed instead of you

muslims say , we worship god , as creator no son , and mohamad is only a master of humans , christ is a prophet and messanger as we say . so we give him the respect cuz be4 armagdonn he will come back and lead us against the fake jesus which christions says he walk with gold and turn water into wine , actually as koran say , this is his tricks to get the other world against islam

 


20:38:01 Oct 25th 07 - Mr. Ghoumzter:

And Scientology came later then Islam, and hence updates Islam?


20:40:05 Oct 25th 07 - Mr. Abu Yusef:

what???


20:40:50 Oct 25th 07 - Mr. Abu Yusef:

i won't say any thing else i don't want to gt involded


20:42:54 Oct 25th 07 - Mr. Sun:

I think philosophy is very interesting. It is the foundation of our scientific thinking.


21:47:43 Oct 25th 07 - Mr. Abu Yusef:

islam encorige part of that scince , cuz most of it want the change .


22:17:16 Oct 25th 07 - Sir Patton:

Hey Carnage, you forgot a few other groups.

Baptists, Southern Baptists, Missionary Baptists, Seventh Day Adventists (oi..), Mormons (not really), Jehovah's Witnesses (in their own mind), etc.

Bunch of us out there, really.

Oh, I'm still waiting for those prison %s from Egypt.


23:44:22 Oct 25th 07 - Mr. Arthion:

those denominations came about after the reformation thats when the catholics split into the protestants and catholic churches


00:11:54 Oct 26th 07 - Lady Lacewing:

Largest Religious Groups (Egypt)

  Muslim (84.81%)
  Christian (14.67%)
  Non-Religious (0.49%)
  Atheist (0.10%)
Ah and don't forget United Methodists.  Would Unitarian Universalists count as a Christian sect or not?


01:00:33 Oct 26th 07 - Mr. Ghoumzter:

Arthion, how the *beep* can you belive there is statistics for that to find on the internet?


01:59:32 Oct 26th 07 - Prince Lucias Septim II:

Clear eyes!


04:42:42 Oct 26th 07 - Mr. Arthion:

what statistics are you talking about and for what?


09:38:11 Oct 26th 07 - Mr. Ghoumzter:

Patton I mean :)


13:53:58 Oct 26th 07 - Mr. Dragonfly:

yes muslim contries leave other religouns be. unlike all of europe.
Who pretty much killed many as infidels.
But ofc you dont get that in history class.


14:25:21 Oct 26th 07 - Mr. Ignorentia:

we do get that in our historyclasses, only it depends what kind of school you attend ... if you're in a catholic school, those things are 'not as important' ...  another proof of religion being abused.


15:09:05 Oct 26th 07 - Sir Patton:

Alright, as the chart that Lacewing shows, Egypt's prison population is predominantly muslim, therefore I can attribute the high crime rate to the muslim faith, can I not? That is the logic that Ghouma's trying to use.

Find me some other country with a predominant religion (Japan - Shintoism/Confuscism/Christianity, India - Hinduism, Budihism (sp?), Christianity) and the numbers will reflect that as well.


Dragonfly - If I were to go over to Saudi Arabia and ask that my Christian church be given our own building (you can stop right there, but I'll keep going), our own rights, a seperate section for prayer, etc. etc. I'd probably be laughed at, attempted to be converted to Islam and maybe killed by some radical. NEXT.


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