Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / Death VS God

Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. ⁹ And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

 ¹⁰ A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. ¹¹ The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. ¹² (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin ^[e] and onyx are also there.) ¹³ The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. ^{[f] 14} The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

NOW...we take this area....lay it out on any map....and we have a desert...which has been a desert for millions of years....great job there dude....surely Jamaica or Hawai were better locations for paradise?

But for Adam ^[g] no suitable helper was found. ²¹ So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs ^[h] and closed up the place with flesh. ²² Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib ^[i] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

 ²³ The man said,
       "This is now bone of my bones
       and flesh of my flesh;
       she shall be called 'woman, ^[j] '
       for she was taken out of man."

 ²⁴ For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

 ²⁵ The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

Why not just wave the magic wand, do your dance and HEY PRESTO....women...why try justify the sexual act by claiming one is from the other and they need to join in sex to become one...sex is just that...sex

"NOW...we take this area....lay it out on any map....and we have a desert...which has been a desert for millions of years....great job there dude....surely Jamaica or Hawai were better locations for paradise?"

that is wrong, the area around the Tigris and Eufrate used to be very good for cultivating ... hence, one of the oldest civilizations known to us, spawned there ...   (remember climatic improvements, and continental drift, etc ...)

(maybe pick a better source than wikipedia ;-)  and check what your saying yourself :-p  )

Shut up you fool....that area has been arid desert for over 100m years...the civilization you talk of were goat farmers....and I dont use wikipedia....I use my own common sense which says the middle east has and never will be a fertile area.

FFS I can't beleive that I'm playing devils advocate, but disproving the bible, something easy to do, does not disprove God, it's just a logical nonposibility.

"I use my own common sense which says the middle east has and never will be a fertile area."

You're just a *beep*ing *beep*, the place is called "The Cradle of civilization" for a *beep*ing reason you *beep*ing *beep*.

Sumeria

Josef....the proof of Gods existance is in his words...the bible. Disprove it all as a fairy tale, written to keep the uneducated living in fear of eternal damnation, by its authors....more than likely leaders of the ancient Judaic sects that formed the basis of the modern day Judaic religion.....now i will continue tearing the bible up page by page, then when that is done, they cannot point to that for his proof of existance. When thats done, I will go through the historical and philosophical reasons for his non existance, and finally the scientific destruction of the creationist theory.

to win the war, you fight each battle. I will take this merciful, all knowing all seeing being down battle by battle. I am starting with the fairy tales and urban legends that are the bible.

wrong window...

...this topic was spawned in a pool of stupidity *facepalms*

my god, primate... go back to first grade... I mean... seriously...

Duke Playaaaa Report 4/18/2009 2:26:26 PM	Omg... Did YOU go to school Primate? Have you never heard of the fertile cresent? Of the cradle of Life? Are you that stupid that you can call Mesopotamia an arid desert for 100milion years?! You sir, are *beep*ing retarded : )
Pirate Lewatha Report 4/18/2009 2:41:33 PM	my god, primate... go back to first grade... I mean... seriously...

Mesopotamia encompases the land inbetween the Euphrates and Tigris rivers; both of which have their headwaters in the mountains of Armenia in modern Turkey. Both rivers are fed by numerous tributaries, and the entire river system drains a vast mountainous region. Overland routes in Mesopotamia usually follow the Euphrates because the banks of the Tigris are frequently steep and difficult. The climate of the region is semi-arid with a vast desert expanse in the north which gives way to a 6,000 square mile region of marshes, lagoons, mud flats, and reed banks in the south. In the extreme south the Euphrates and the Tigris unite and empty into the Persian Gulf.

LOL

haha

The supply of water is not regular; as a result of the high average temperatures and a very low annual rainfall, the ground of the plain of latitude 35° N is hard and dry and unsuitable for plant cultivation for at least eight months in the year. Consequently, agriculture without risk of crop failure, which seems to have begun in the higher rainfall zones and in the hilly borders of Mesopotamia in the 10th millennium bc, began in Mesopotamia itself, the real heart of the civilization, only after artificial irrigation had been invented, bringing water to large stretches of territory through a widely branching network of canals.

The present climatic conditions are fairly similar to those of 8,000 years ago. An English survey of ruined settlements in the area 30 miles around ancient Hatra (180 miles northwest of Baghdad) has shown that the southern limits of the zone in which agriculture is possible without artificial irrigation has remained unchanged since the first settlement of Al-Jazīrah.

Lord Primate Death Report 4/18/2009 7:56:08 AM

This is an indepth take down of the bible, and hopefully, at the end you can find peace within yourselves, rather than a book about a god who doesnt exist.  1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.... Did anyone witness this event? If now, its heresay.  2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.  3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.  27 So God created man in his own image,        in the image of God he created him;        male and female he created them.  28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." Great job day one....just one very big problem here....and for the next 5 days until he creates man.... no one witnessed this. Now....if it had been me....I would create a man and women....and said..."now watch this sh1t"....then made heaven and earth and all the rest of the rubbish.

the bible amy have been written by humans but inspired by God.

Lord Primate Death Report 4/18/2009 8:00:51 AM

Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.  10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin [e] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. [f] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates. NOW...we take this area....lay it out on any map....and we have a desert...which has been a desert for millions of years....great job there dude....surely Jamaica or Hawai were better locations for paradise?

two words: fertile cresent

what the heck does that have to do with anything? that doesnt disprove anything

Lord Primate Death Report 4/18/2009 8:13:21 AM

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"  2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "  4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." A naked women talks to a snake.....about a tree in a perfect place. Now if we eat of this tree, we become like god, knowing good and evil. Why plant it in the first place....why tempt man? And if this place was the perfect creation, and god created all, he created evil too? For if all things are of god....surely good and evil are parts of the same almighty power.

The earth was perfect because sin had not yet entered the world. God created the tree to tempt humans because he wanted them to be able to have free will and disobey him if they desired to. God created the knowledge of good and evil it obviously existed before because the Devil and his demons all became evil.

Lord Primate Death Report 4/18/2009 8:19:52 AM

21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side [e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life. Who is the us he talks of??? seems there is a few of these god guys around. So, we get kicked out, and an angel with a sword is left at the gates to paradise to guard its tree's. Now, if I or any other living being on earth had spotted this guy, surely we would have got the email....paradise found....watch the sword.

the Trinity one God in three parts. The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. Now youll say there are three Gods there but there isn't its the same as a woman being a mother wife and sister. a woman can be a mother but not married she can be married but not be a mother she can be married but not a sister and she can be a motehr and not a sister. The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are all God but The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Holy Spirit. http://www.gotquestions.org/images/trinity.jpg

now instead of verses sicne i now that wont persuade you ill use science to give evidence to atleast a being who was incharge of the amking of this earth.

Look at the atmosphere. theres the ozone alyer which ahs nitrogen gas and ozone and otehr chemicals to break up the harmful rays fro mthe sun. Ozone is poisonous to humans but the ozone alyer is up in the sky where no humans breath air. Down where we breath there is oxygen but not too much. and then some otehr gasses some of whic hare poisonous but not in as low concentration as it is. then the majority of the air is amde of nitrogen which does not affect us animals or palnts. then there are the plants and single celled organisms which take away the CO2 we breath out and replenish the O2 in the atmoshpere.

now lets move on the the interesting topic of H20 aka water. Water is one of if not the only substance to expand when it freezes. sicne it expands ice flaots on water creating an insulation to the animals that live in water. This insulation prevents all the sea and water animals in colder cliamtes from dying each winter.

Atoms: waht makes up the nucleus of an atom? protons and neutrons. Now elts think about this for a minute protons are positively charged and cuetrons have no charge. if like charges repel each otehr then how does the nucleus stay together? correct! through the strong force! how does the strong force work? no one knows! its a natural phenomenom.

Flagella on some single celled organisms. it is amde up of tons and tons of small intricate parts so that it can work perfectly. through all the years which humans have existed the best we came up with are engines and propellers. even the best engines are only 40% efficient. flegellas are way more efficient than that.

Man made eco systems. Humans have tried to make their own ecosystems which have no contact with the otuside world. they control the atmosphere the palnts animals and all the environment. have any of them succeeded? nope all failures. if we cant make our own ecosystem to work how could this perfect ecosystem all come about by chance?

The earths position. if the earth were to be something as small as .2% closer to the earth if i recal correctly it would become to hot to live on. if the earth was .2% farther away form the sun again if i recall correctly then it would be too cold to live on. thats some pretty percise locationing.

now if you think about all those scientific facts i dont understnad how it is even remotely possible to see how it all came about by chance. everything in nature works together in perfect harmony. i could throw a bunch of gears up on a board randomly but unless i creatively placed them on the board so that all the cogs fit in with each other it would not work properly.

have you ever heard about the age old question: if you give a million monkeys a million typewriters and give them a million years. would one of them write the entire works of shakespeare? statistically speaking now they wouldnt. to write the letter "a" with spaces surrounding it jsut by randomly hitting buttons would be insane! if you had jsut the 26 english letters and a space bar (a total fo 27 keys) the chances of typing the letter a with spaces around it by randomly hitting the buttons would be 1 chance in 27^3 or 1 in 19683. the chances to write "my name is killstone" with the 27 keys would be 1 in 27^20 or 1 in 42,391,158,275,216,203,514,294,433,201 thats 42.391 octillion. youd have a better chacne at taking Bill Gate's entire fortune in pennies taping a piece of paper to one of the pennies mixing that penny in with the otehr 8.6 trillion or so pennies and picking out that penny with the paper on it.

waht i msaying is if a million monkeys cant type the entire work of shake speare in a million years because they do not have any creative mind behind it then how could this perfectly harmonious world which us humans (homo sapiens [our genus and species name] which means wise humans in latin) cant duplicate by chance even if it had a trillion years?

i wont reply or look in this thread again because if you still dont believe me then nothing i say will be able to change your mind

PS excuse the typos and the length

"water is one of if not the only substance to expand when it freezes."
ROFL

darwin, if he were alive today would ssay his ideas on evolution are incorrect. why? because in one of his books he said "if an organism is found that could not be made over time one part by one aprt then my theories are incorrect." and the flegella is adme of a ton of different proteins and without one of those it woud not work correctly.

thats it. nothing more in order to actually "proove" soemthing as much as science can you have to use ideas and knowledge that has tons and tons of evidence behind them. evolution does not, you dont know that the atmosphere was different tons of years ago.. all the stuff i talked about is common knowledge

What's your next trick? Are you going to give me the eye as irreducibly complex, or perhaps wings? I'm waiting to see what your religion addled mind comes up with next.

so ice flaoting on water is wishful thinking? nitrogen making up most of the atmosphere is wishful thinking? the flegellum being extremly efficient is wishful thinking? humans failing at making ecosystems is wishful thinking? the perfect palcement of the earth comapred to the sun is wishful thinking? and the phenomenom of an atom is wishful thinking? no they are all facts

LOL, Josef, can you not accept a defeat? all of your talk is "what if" and "maybe", how do you know this universe was not place here on purpose? were you there? how do you know life evolved, were you there looking down on life as it happened? Where did you get all your information? oo i know! You got it from man. News flash buddy, the human minds are flawed!!

You are so caught up in your own wishfull thinking, that you can't look around you at life and study that! you use your imagination to come up with all these ideas as to why the bible is not true, and why God does not exist!

Look at the second law of thermodynamics! The entropy of the universe must always stay the same. It can never decrease.

So you see that the second law of thermodynamics doesn't really disprove evolution, but it does attach some pretty strong conditions to it. The second law says that if evolution were to occur, then each step of that evolution must be accompanied by an immediate increase in the entropy of the surroundings. If anyone ever comes up with a mechanism by which this might happen, evolution could at least be made consistent with the second law. Currently, however, no one can come up with even a vague notion as to how this might happen.

As a result, the current theories of evolution are not consistent with the second law. This does not mean that the second law disproves these theories however. It just means that no one has come up with the proper mechanism. In my opinion, however, such a mechanism does not exist!

So....once I kill God, Killstone, I vow I will come back to shoot holes in the most ridiculous of posts. Right now...im working out the real statistical probability of the earths proximity to the most stupid person on it.

wow, that was a killer post primate! You almost made me rethink all of life itself!

"so ice flaoting on water is wishful thinking? nitrogen making up most of the atmosphere is wishful thinking? the flegellum being extremly efficient is wishful thinking? humans failing at making ecosystems is wishful thinking? the perfect palcement of the earth comapred to the sun is wishful thinking? and the phenomenom of an atom is wishful thinking? no they are all facts"

The conclusions you draw from these facts is wishful thinking.

Those things do happen, and I already explained why they happen, it's got nothing to do with god, never had, never will.

I noticed that you completely ignored my post, I invite you to debunk my arguments.

Paracelzus I'm not even going to bother answering your posts, you're just some random *beep* than has no *beep*ing idea how off the deep end he is. You have no *beep*ing clue what the second law of thermodynamic says, nor how it applies here.

"
As a result, the current theories of evolution are not consistent with the second law. This does not mean that the second law disproves these theories however. It just means that no one has come up with the proper mechanism. In my opinion, however, such a mechanism does not exist!"

Your opinion is null for the sake of this argument, you use fancy words to show you're all scientific yet have no *beep*ing clue what you're saying. Please educate yourself on why the second law of thermodynamics has very little if any relevance to evolution.

"Yes there is a lot more science in creationism then you think. lol, how could you even say that? I just pointed out one of those scientific laws that support creationism."

You mean the second law of thermodynamics? Hahaha, wow you really are brainwashed.

I have no idea what site you posted, the link is parked by GoDaddy.

EDIT: If you are asking if TalkOrigin is credible, than the answer is yes. It's just a massive index of all the creationist "arguments" and their debunking and examples.

EDIT - mixed up the site names :p  My bad