Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / Virginia Tech Shooting in US

Mr. Neratu Report 4/20/2007 7:36:16 PM

Mr. Santa Claus Report 4/20/2007 1:02:22 PM I think we need to change the law, NO firearms permitted. Only lawenforcement has them, but not at home, no, only at the police station where they pick them up before going to work. Every once in a while, without warning, check houses and people for guns. Give them jailtime if they have firearms. Ban firearms. Be strict, Ew its Crusty is right, there is no sissy politician needed. But a hard ahole, one that only thinks of his goal. Banning guns 100%, only police has them. Every one with guns, 3 years or so jail. Then soon enough everyone will trough away their guns...then the killing will be done with baseballbats, then at least you wont have 30 kills, but 3...   how would that solve anything? criminals would still have guns and killers would still be killing. might reduce accidental killings...

It would work, not selling firearms at shops, raids on possible firearm storage warehouses and etc will all reduce the amount of criminals or possible criminals who can kill someone with the twitch of a finger.

Gun control is not the answer to stopping mass murdering psychos. Canada has very strict gun control laws for handguns, and guess what, that didn't stop a psycho in Montreal from shooting 20 people at Dawson College. All legally obtained and registered guns.

Mr. Roxbury Report 4/20/2007 3:18:33 PM

Does anyone know if the number of killings in the US, are mostly done by illegal or legal weapons? The idea that this shooter could just pick up a 9mm off the counter baffles me.. but then again, Im not american. How come you are legal to use and wear your gun when drunk or high, but you cant drive a car under the influence?

dunno about being legal when drunk, but seeing as drugs are illegal id imagine being high would be illegal with or without a gun.

Sir RA Enlightens You Report 4/20/2007 4:46:19 PM

it happens all over the world, sloth, you can't defend against loonatics, but you can't deny the fact that it seems to happen more in the states ... and it is only logical, less guns around, less 'accidents' happen.  (i suppose it is not the american nature to like it to kill eachother?) is america really such a dangerous place to live in, that you need to be armed to the teeth? all off you? is there any threat of an upcoming invasion? it just seems a bit overkill on the guns?  i'm not argueing about the right to own a gun, but it's not becuase you have the right you necessairely have the need for it?

so your saying since there are more guns there must be more people wanting to kill other? I seriously doubt guns are the reason people die, its people wanting to kill other people. Guns are just a tool like anything else.

also i need to figure how to just take small peices without taking the whole damned thing...

Sloth, this is about the only time I'd want to shake the hand of any V player, but you've pretty much nailed the issue right there. So, I'm just going to make a few replies to some posts in here.

Why would u send average cops and firemen?

Send swat/army/airforce... anything with a good training could kill him without much problems.

I don't know, but they sure sent a bunch of average cops in there, but then again the people promoting gun control are wanting your defense to rest in the hands of these guys. So if they're not coming to your rescue to stop one person, then something's clearly wrong. Army/Air Force has NOTHING to do with these kind of situations (unless you wanted to bomb/shell the college, then that is a different story.)

Santa -

Sloth's already touched on this, but I'm going to repeat it. All you've done is strip guns away from law-abiding citizens. Your policemen aren't going to be around all the time to stop break-ins, rapes, assaults, etc. Guns are necessary, and should be allowed to remain in the hands of individuals.

You know, beyond 9-11, it's been YEARS since any foreign nation has invaded mainland American soil. You know why? Because if they did, about every single person in the US could pick up a gun and go on the defense. As well as other reasons that Sloth pointed out in his post.

One more challenge to all the gun control nuts. If you really think that stopping guns is the way to solve the problems of violence. Then I want you to bring charges against a gun into a court of law, and get it to defend itself. Maybe after your case is thrown out of the court, you all will start working on the people that are behind these guns.

As to the media, I really wish the American media would lay off cases like these. It's giving these killers what they wanted in the first place. Attention.

if you want to know out of the 300 million people in the US 250 million of them own guns.

the stricter da gun control is da more money gun dealer will make.lol

Guns in every household and crime is reduced? Of course. Would you do anything to irritate your neighbour if you knew they could end your life at any time? Personally I'd rather live in a city with a higher general crime rate than one where every disgruntled employee or unstable drug addict is legally required to have access to a lethal weapon.

"So essentially what I'm hearing Elsin is that you're willing to sacrifice your personal freedom in order to feel 'safe'. Such is the common mentality of our modern US."

And so they should. Perhaps we would see a few less dead Uni students. But yeh. It's all cool as long as you have the right to bear arms.

if the law were to change the us goverment would have to re-wright the constution

if someone really wants to murder someone, a gun is not needed. there are many methods to end a life. taking all guns away does not mean safety.

if removing guns, u would have to take out bombs, explosive chemicals, chainsaws, nail guns, all poisons........................ the list goes on

there are tons of ways to mass kill even without guns. many household items can be used to mass kill. its not guns that are the problem, its people. guns are just the most commonly used weapon, but people are what actually do the killing.

It's a lot easier to kill one or more people with a gun than with bombs, explosive chemicals, chainsaws, nail guns or poison. Move your finger slightly and someones dead.

"but people are what actually do the killing."
So why make it insanely easy for them...

There's a masive difference between shooting someone and walking up to someone and stabbing them with a knife until they die.

"i agree guns make it easier, but i fail to see how getting rid of them would solve murder."

There's no way to "solve" murder, but why encourage it?

I didn't say it would solve murder. Of course its the people who make the decision to kill but do we need to make it so easy. Can we have SAM missiles, its not the missile that makes the decision to kill so is that ok?

I take you're point about society Fizban and I think my post DOES say its our society thats at fault. I think guns just make it  too easy to carry out the act of killing. I'm afraid I don't see what purpose they serve. Chainsaws, knives, Box cutters (they have been banned on planes now) all have a purpose other than to shoot lethal projectiles. I just don't see why in daily life people need to have guns in their homes or freely available in society.

Don't get me wrong I HATE the nanny state but sorry guns are just too much.

There are NO guns where I live. I've never seen a gun nor has anyone I know and if you have a gun you must be a SERIOUS criminal here. If you pulled a gun anywhere you'd better be ready to die in about 5mins cos that's how long you'd have before the special armed police unit shoots you.

I'm in a quite violent area, lots of stabbings and bottlings but the thought of these guys having guns really is a beeping nightmare. If they got guns I'd be indoors playing VU 24/7. ( Not that I 'm far off that now ! ;)  )

There's no way to "solve" murder, but why encourage it?

Ok, so the gun in your house (though I know you don't have one) is sitting there, whispering little encouragements to pick it up and kill people? If that's the case, then I'll send a few guys in white with a straightjacket right over.

"Ok, so the gun in your house (though I know you don't have one) is sitting there, whispering little encouragements to pick it up and kill people? If that's the case, then I'll send a few guys in white with a straightjacket right over."

Unfortunately thats probably true for many gun owners, but because of a partially outdated document there's nothing stopping them from acting on those thoughts.

@ Thor
I was replying to Soccerplaya when I said there's no way to solve murder.

Hey Elsin, I have 3 guns in my home and yet I strangely feel no desire to kill anyone. If what you're saying is true, I should've shot up my school or workplace years ago. So, which way is it? Are guns the influence that get people to kill, or is it something else entirely? Like the person.

A knife in the kitchen, a rickshaw, spoon, fork, cutter, pliers, hammers, pencils, ballpoint pens, toothpick etc. etc. etc....

Personally, I'm rather caught between the two sides, heightened gun control/NO guns and loosened gun control/ALL guns.

Not every killer out there is mentally insane, though that's how it always seems to work out, isn't it?  There are, by far, worse people out there who do not go and shoot people.  And on the flip side, there are perfectly normal people who, in a sudden and momentary surge of anger, commit heinous crimes on impulse.

I wouldn't want to talk in a marketplace where everyone's carrying a gun.  Say the wrong thing to the wrong person, you could be dead.  Offend someone and you could be dead.  And then others with guns all come to the "rescue," and sooner or later it all becomes one giant shootout with misfires and ricochets and destroyed property.  There are a lot of people I wouldn't trust, despite training and stability checks, to carry guns.

But neither would I want to walk in a marketplace where all of a sudden a man brings out a gun, lines everyone up, and shoots them squarely in the forehead one by one and runs or commits suicide only when the police manage to show up, because he is not worried in the slightest that someone will try and stop them.  Like in VT.

The solution?  I have no idea.

guns are the MAFIA and cops no one else not even many gangsters have 1.

Hmm, let's think. Isn't the mafia, oh, organized crime? So someone is definately smuggling in guns. So you've just shot your own argument in the foot, so to speak.

Hong Kong?

Fizban *beep*, guns ftl. Stop being so American. There is a direct correlation between gun ownership and gun death.

What has invasion got to do with anything? Look at your nearest neighbours; Canada and Mexico...WATCH OUT!?!!
If you think loose gun ownership laws have anything to do with America's peace on home soil then you are deluded.



From
Miller, T. and Cohen, M. “Costs of Gunshot and Cut/Stab Wounds in the United States, with some Canadian Comparisons. ” Accid Anal Prev 1997; 29 (3): 329-41.

what sort of a sicko dose something like that.....

Mr. Super Sloth Report 4/20/2007 6:22:01 PM

Saying more guns = more deaths is easy. But its a logical fallacy: correlation does not equal causation. Criminals and killers around the world can get guns, in every city, in every country on every continent. Without exception. When the government takes the guns away, they can only take them from citizens, not criminals, who by definition will ignore the law. Americans will defend to the death their right to bear arms. Only 231 years ago, it was their citizens who rose up, grabbed their guns and kicked the British out of their country. The founders of the USA said it was the duty of every American citizen rise up against their own government if it ever becomes oppressive. That's written in their Constitution. They believe in personal responsibility, and for every American you find that thinks less guns is the answer, you will find 5 or more that believe more guns are the answer. More guns in the hands of reasonable people, so they have the right to self defence. They believe the students who had been shot were denied their right of self defence, since their legal guns were not permitted on campus (not even security staff). But those laws didn't stop the killer. Americans have a strong believe in personal empowerment and personal responsibility. People are responsible for their actions, but blaming the tools, or video games, or the parents, or anyone BUT the killer is what the media likes to do. Also, remember that these killings happen all over the world, but in America, they are sensationalized by the media. That is why you hear about them moreso than any other country. Only a fraction of gun deaths in the USA happen in these situations. The majority of gun deaths are due to gang warfare and drug violence, not students buying guns over the counter and shooting up the place.

Ok, seraeasly sloth, you should become like a senet in hous of represeantitives(WTF?). I think what you wrought is pritty good, I would like for you to countinue whatever stuff you do to get a mind like this. :-)

If I had a gun and a robber came, he would probably shoot me and then take my wallet. When normal people don't have guns they are most of the times happy by just taking the wallet. A society loses more on having their citizens killed then having them lose a couple of hundred dollars.

But maybe the people who claims private guns protects America from a foreign invasion should be allowed to have guns so no one tries euthanize them for the stupidity.

If guns where allowed in Sweden 80 years ago we would probably be a communist nation now as with most other European nations, but nowadays when one side have guns the other side are gonna have to take weapons.