Forums / Questions and Answers / AotD attack technique

AotD attack technique
12:53:45 Feb 11th 15 - Mr. Scimitar Warbird:

I would like someone to help me with the method of doing the army of the dead type of attac;

Here is what I have so far:

Enemy comes to city where your army is... The enemy needs to be less than 3 times stronger  than you so you don't get killed instantly, but is there a certain % you should look for? For example if 20% is good, but if you have 0%, should you try at all, is there any chance?

So you hit the enemy and you lose, many dead, and now you need to cast the spell. Since you need to be out the city, what you do is use bonus turn or wait till end of tick and then move army up and down so you end up in city next tick, and then your mage will try to cast in that last 20 seconds, but that also gives chance to attacker to take the city while you are outside?

You could also make a scout in the city, move your army out, get aotd quickly and then merge into that scout right? Then you do the attack again, but next time you can't merge up again because its one merge per tick right?

Could someone read this and tell me if this is ok, or are some parts wrong? Help please :)


13:00:50 Feb 11th 15 - Mr. Barny:

The extremely tl;dr short answer to your question is that as long as you have 1% on the enemy (they aren't 3x your power) you can attack them without your army getting slaughtered, which allow you to abuse AOTD+Healing Injuries in cities to continuously hammer the enemy army over and over for higher and higher %'s. This is extremely effective vs enemies who cannot AOTD their army when your army contains easily AOTD's units like Nazgul, as the cost of AOTD is based upon dead unit count and excludes MU.

If you think about AOTD is a power multiplier of sorts it would make a unit like Nazgul 9~ times as effective, because you can 100% slaughter armies that are 2.99x your size that would otherwise have 3x slaughter on you.

I hope this helps, I can write a wall of text about AOTD or something like that if you want because it's a REALLY powerful and important spell.


13:03:16 Feb 11th 15 - Alrisaia (Lady Alrisaia The Prism):

Only used this effectively once but this is how I did it.


You could also make a scout in the city, move your army out, get aotd quickly and then merge into that scout right? Then you do the attack again, but next time you can't merge up again because its one merge per tick right? 

After I merged into the scout you can transfer those troops to the city, then to a new army, then rinse and repeat as long as you don't bounce the army attacking you, you'll eventually get a slaughter with full power.

Being a mage typically I cast my own spells, this coordination with the kd mage is very easy :-)


13:58:36 Feb 11th 15 - Mr. Scimitar Warbird:

I was told in the past you needed to remove all soldiers from army and only have injured there and the dead, for easier casting, but it was changed and now it does not matter? Someone please confirm?


14:14:30 Feb 11th 15 - Woodeh (Mr. Twohundredker):

Casting now goes on amount of dead, ie how many units it will bring back, regardless of how big the army it's being cast upon is.


22:39:48 Feb 11th 15 - Alrisaia (Mr. Alrisaio The Beholden):

I think it should be based on total op,do making the naz zero am exploit less of an issue...


22:51:10 Feb 11th 15 - Mr. Trolling Troll:

I don't necessarily agree with that. AOTD is what keeps orc armies relevant in the late era. Basing it off of straight power would also make halflings even more powerful. If anything I feel it should become a higher lvl spell so people at least have to think twice before casting it so freely.


01:31:55 Feb 12th 15 - Mr. Barny:

I definitely like how the spell works now compared to how it used to work, I think it's fine how it makes certain units worth more or less in the lategame and functions as a victory mechanic for certain races.

Also Halfling can AOTD, 120k Pony Rider day 10-11 is a very strong Halfling timing attack. You can AOTD your own 120k Pony Rider army after getting bounced at 99%, so Halfling can indeed AOTD it's just that AOTD doesnt function as a 'victory mechanic' for Halfling/Dwarf because you cant AOTD 500k dead units over and over from your 1million+ advent or axeman stack.


23:41:31 Mar 5th 15 - Mr. Eternal Slumber:

What i do when being prepped on an knowing im gonna use AoTD.
 
I make 3 scouts jump them out an bless them all at end of tick so they land back in my city.

Then I transfer all my offensive units into one of those 3 scouts no MU's at all. Attack. Lose transfer all living troops back into another scout(if you won just put them back in main unless you want to keep exp gain) If you lost AotD said army you lost with by jumping it out with just 1 troop in it an AotD it an merge it back in to one of the other scouts then repeat again an again. Especially useful tactic abuse for farming exp(cough I wonder how that cant be abused cough)

If im in safe area an can safely do it. I build a city spam 100 MT's into it an destroy the 1 Gt. Wait for them to be built transfer all mages into city. Make another scout in city. Then plot route for the injured army an cast AoTD. Then put all living mages into that scout in city an merge either into it or it into main army before enemy sees.

Also another safer tactic is just to have a safe area for AoTD that you can send armies that suffered losses to for an AoTD. I usually have a city for this near my main armory so I can pick up troops an heal those dead all at once. All this really involves is attacking after taking so many dead in an army(15-30k AM's if your an elf) you simply transfer all troops to another army an quit using that army. Leave about 100-1k troops in it an send it to the safe zone. Most people wont even bother with an army thats under 100 troops an isnt an orc. Wont freeze it an kill it.

I forget the exact number of mages per dead unit but if i remember correctly at 8 magic as an elf to bring 20k dead back at a high chance usually will need at least 60-70k mages to have over 50%.(Pretty sure this is without MT's or very few of them cant remember if i cast from a MT or not lol) So i figure at that magic level its something like 3 to 3.5 mages per dead unit worth of magic power. I usually just cast it at 50-60% range cause maxing it is pointless.



17:47:54 Mar 6th 15 - Lady Elisa Day The Mage:

I do not understand the aotd attacking,
I had enemy attacking me that I had 2% on last era.

So I tried attacking, failed miserably,
Lost 2/3 of my Archmages, and killed just a few of the enemy army
Obviously just a few cause the enemy was much stronger.

Then I casted aotd on my army, and then I had 0%...
I don't understand how I can have more than 2% considering I lost that many in the first attempt. And by this I mean lost many dead that came back but still had 30k AMs that were injured.

Am I supposed to wait for injured to come back for this to work?
Waiting just lead to enemy taking over the city.

Could someone explain just how am I supposed to have better chance than 2% after I hit the enemy?


18:01:20 Mar 6th 15 - Binh (Mr. Binh):

you have to wait for the injure to heal to gain a better %. Usually healing a majority of a small naz army is much easier than healing a much bigger army (archmages, zerkers, catas, etc.) You can add mage (the more the better) into your army to make them heal super quick. Usually around 3-4 ticks of healing can heal a nice enough amount for naz for the second round of attack. Usually you want full walls, and enough magic to locust enemy army so they won't take you. Do this enough time and you can turn a 2 % into >50%.




00:02:11 May 9th 15 - Mr. Barny:

If you have a very low % then you need to hit the enemy the moment they prep your city because your injured units have reduced power. Your units can only exist in 3 states: Healthy, Injured, or Dead. With AOTD that means that you are only ever going to have healthy units and injured units, and the best place to have injured units (and the best place to attack an enemy, and the best place to cast AOTD) is a city you control.

When it comes to slaughtering an enemy army that you have a very low % on Nazgul are the best unit to use- they are cheap to AOTD, they heal quickly due to low unit count, and if you mess up you can potentially escape with Force March and BT. Catapults are a decent unit as well because they are 40 OP units and you won't have more than 100k of them until very late in the era.

Berserkers can slaughter an enemy on a sub-100% attack, but on a bad roll you could lose your Berserker army if you attack someone on a low %. Archmages have the issue of being very numerous, thus they require a lot of MU and take enough time to heal that you won't be surprise-slaughtering anyone at super lower %s.

As far as slaughtering someone on a low % using AOTD is concerned it's ideal to not only have high medical science but also to have lower military science than your enemy. An injured unit is worth less to you than a dead one as far as AOTD-attacking is concerned.


12:16:12 May 9th 15 - Ms. Pillsbury Doughboy:

As Barny said in his very last paragraph High Med Lower Military. I will always go Military 5 max as aotd orc and have even considered going even lower than level 5. The reason being is with higher military science more troops get injured less die on an attack. (Barny didnt mention this) then I will also go min 5 med (with any playstyle)


14:33:36 May 9th 15 - Mr. Barny:

In any kind of military engagement in VU there is a % of casualties and out of that % there are a number of deaths, injuries, and unaffected units after battle. The player with lower military science will take more of his casualties as deaths as opposed to injuries, and when it comes to AOTD-capable armies an injury is worse than a death. The only way you lose units is injured units dying and the outright slaughter of your armies.

Whenever I play AOTD Orc I go for Military 5. If I were to go lower I'd value higher medical science over mining. I've considered going lower than 5 since you can MW up to 5 and the idea seems appealing on paper (very high unit retention) but I've decided that it has the same flaws as low mil high med berserker armies (very good vs the players you would probably kill with any build and not good vs powerful non-AOTD capable Halfling and Dwarf armies around day 15). 5 is appealing because it's the lowest level military science that you can get without it being apparent that you have low military science and most Halfling/Troll/Elf builds end at around Military 6.

Here's an interesting way to look at AOTD armies: It's all about getting more value out of less cost effective units. The way you do this is by taking favorable trades and a battle at any% with an army that cannot AOTD itself (or cannot AOTD itself as cost effectively as you) is a favorable trade because your enemy will lose units and you will not. The only way you cannot AOTD your deaths back is if the armyID is removed via your army being slaughtered, which is a very real risk given that the whole idea is that you leverage the AOTD spell to compensate for having lower OP/DP than your opponent.

I agree isn't a good science build for any playstyle in VU that doesn't involve Med 4 or higher, the difference between Med 3 and Med 5 is actually very noticeable.


17:43:18 May 9th 15 - Sir Scimitar:

We had a very interesting couple of battles in Mantrax recently, the world is starting to be interesting, though I would not get to learn anything but these last few battles make me thirsty for knowledge. 


This was the situation; we broke into Forgotten Warriors and our 300k dwarf axe army went against 105k Catapults army from Blah Blah The Brutal. He went to Force's city and due to Catas low dp, Force crushed him. In the meantime I went to stop a large halfer army. 

Then again Blah came after aotd and he had the same army while we could not aotd axers, I rushed to our city and that is when all hell broke loose. 

I hit him, get aotd and get injured back, my army the same again, 90k Berserkers, he did the same again about 100k Catas. We did that 2-3 times and we end up having the same army again. Both have to wait for injured to heal so we just wait and end up having what we started with. 

How would you guys finish this situation, I feel we could have done this for days. It all ended in him making a mistake, he dropped a city 1 building and after I smacked him again he moved to get aotd again I guess. I used BTs from start and sieged the city, but he made 10 scouts that were on top of his main army!!! It took me few seconds to go kill scouts and he was on and he bounced me!

How do you put scouts on top of main army????

After that his big mistake, the 1 building, got him killed, Force used 3 bts to get there and prep and slaughtered his aotd army. 

I am not sure if we would made it if we were not 2 on him, but it was 2 on 2 cause he had Roxbury's Archmages in city. Once again I think the city he dropped got him killed. 

That was a fun day!


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