Forums / Questions and Answers / Human Vs Elf == Magic Costs

Human Vs Elf == Magic Costs
00:43:43 Feb 1st 09 - Mr. Caverna:

Greetings all,

At first i ask for the flamers to avoid replying to this topic. I know it could bring some heated discussing!!

I would like to ask whether those posts i read around claiming that magic costs for humans and for elves are comparable (or even equal) are true.

Thanks in advance.



03:19:57 Feb 1st 09 - Duke Random:

umm not really.

Elf magic sci is far cheaper than that of humans.... the only thing in magic that a human can out do an elf in is StG, apart from that they're pretty usless as mages in comparison. and its not even because of their skill in magic, more because of the 10% discount.


03:37:45 Feb 1st 09 - Mr. Sloth:

elf magic is 3x cheaper than the other races... 6x cheaper than troll/dwarf...


04:13:34 Feb 1st 09 - Mr. Caverna:

thanks


05:25:17 Feb 1st 09 - Mr. Barny:

Errrr that copy and past didnt work too well, I didnt include the higher levels >.<

Oh well, take my word for it. If you aren't doing single man combat, go human. StG is such a huge benefit that the loss of Archmages is only minor in comparison.


07:52:28 Feb 1st 09 - Mr. Sloth:

strange.. well i've never played human so i didn't know for sure...


20:38:54 Feb 1st 09 - Mr. Caverna:

thank you very much Barny. I will keep note of my doings and keep investigating hehe.

One the things i were testing is if keeping the gates closed makes your pessies multiply faster (health lvl. 0) but i didnt noticed anything worth exposing the city over the fog.


02:07:03 Feb 2nd 09 - Mr. Rock:

Well one factor that also plays into science costs barny which you didn't mention is that the more people who have a science the cheaper that specific science becomes. Although I'm not sure how much of a difference there is on the higher level's I can bet its significant.


23:26:21 Feb 2nd 09 - Mr. Barny:

Well one factor that also plays into science costs barny which you didn't mention is that the more people who have a science the cheaper that specific science becomes. Although I'm not sure how much of a difference there is on the higher level's I can bet its significant.


This is, as of recently; untrue. You will find the values for the lower science levels to match up with those above; and it isnt because all the same people got all the same magic sciences.


10:27:15 Feb 3rd 09 - Mr. Barny:

So, I would imagine that a lot of people read this and didnt post in here. Just out of curiosity, did anyone find the *beep* I posted about magic science ect. here useful, or was it a vain effort on my part to extend knowledge?


11:08:03 Feb 3rd 09 - Mr. Demonev:

Is is useful, Barny, keep posting. It is very important for us, new players who want to learn to drink from the spring of your experience.


22:47:28 Feb 3rd 09 - Sir Gilth:

Magic Level
Level 1

Upgrading costs 4500 gold, 400 stone, 400 tree and 400 food.

Now, compare that to your price and tell me what I did wrong..
I do not have a single science (outside of this 1 lvl) and I'm playing Elf, at least I think I am..
I have the option to train Archmages, so I guess I clicked the correct race.

Did the costs change again? Or does the price still decrease when more players get higher lvls.


23:00:49 Feb 3rd 09 - Mr. Vorkosigan:

Mr. Barney

Just to let you know I did read your post and thought it extremely useful to a relative new player (my fourth era).


23:02:16 Feb 3rd 09 - Mr. Sloth:

the price always used to decrease as more players got levels.. never noticed an update where zeta took that out yet.  thats probably why the prices are rising more than 3 times in barny's post, because as you get higher, less people have higher sciences and the discount decreases.


23:02:52 Feb 3rd 09 - Sir Gilth:

a third 'OR'
Or is there this major fluctuation on science costs, giving some lucky player all the cheaper sciences, while others get the more expensive ones..


04:55:38 Feb 4th 09 - Mr. Barny:

Sorry, I dont think I was clear when I said it doesnt "really'' increase about due to recent improvements. The costs get higher; but not often enough for it matter. So, for example; this era the prices did not change to accomidate other people's science levels untill just recently. It does not happen as a player actually purchases a new science.

I would find the scaler for you guys; but it is nearly impossible for me to know who has what at any given time.


05:26:27 Feb 4th 09 - Mr. Barny:

Oh my god I'm retarded today. I meant they get discounts over time, with a maximum of x10 discount. All races have the same scaler for deductions. Dont tell anyone, but I had to register an extra Elf multi at the last few ticks of Era 22 to prove that. Sadly, I was deleted for it lol ;)


11:26:43 Feb 4th 09 - Duke Random:

*runs screaming* MULTI!!!!!!


11:47:07 Feb 4th 09 - VU Admin:

Say there are 600 active players and 2000 inactives (with lvl 0) in the game and 100 of them has discovered iron. That's 4% that have discovered iron. Lets say the inactives get deleted, there will be 17% who has discovered iron, which will make that sci a little cheaper for someone who has not yet discovered iron.

Next era I will most likely make it so that it will only include active players so that we do not get a big hop when the inactives are deleted.


01:13:38 Feb 9th 09 - VU Admin:

Posts by Mr. Barny deleted by request. He has promised get back with a resume.


01:53:50 Feb 9th 09 - Endless Delight:

*pouty face*  I think I'm among the 500 who have not yet discovered iron :(

Any hints on how to find it? :)


02:37:43 Feb 9th 09 - Mr. Barny:

Ok, so I had my other posts deleted because although they were not COMPLETELY incorrect, they were certainly factually misleading.

Here are the BASE COSTS for the earlier magic levels 1-6, I will update this with the higher level base costs when my kingdom members get back to me:

Magic Level
Level 0

Upgrading costs 0 gold, 0 stone, 0 tree and 0 food.

Magic Level
Level 1

Upgrading costs 2250 gold, 200 stone, 200 tree and 200 food.

Magic Level
Level 2

Upgrading costs 11250 gold, 1000 stone, 1000 tree and 1000 food.

Magic Level
Level 3

Upgrading costs 42750 gold, 3800 stone, 3800 tree and 3800 food.

Magic Level
Level 4

Upgrading costs 159750 gold, 14200 stone, 14200 tree and 14200 food.

Magic Level
Level 5

Upgrading costs 490500 gold, 43600 stone, 43600 tree and 43600 food.


Initially without deductions, Elf will pay 2x the base cost and Humans will pay 10x the base cost for magic sciences. I will update this with the base costs multipliers for all races when my kingdom mates get magic sciences, but I find that the cost's for these 2 races will do for now as they are the most played mages. Humans have the cheapest sciences on everything for all races, except for magic and mining, which they come in a close 2nd to Dwarf; which is null when compared to their more speedy deductions.

The base cost is the minimum that can be payed for a science level. Every race will eventually pay the base cost, although at different rates. I should note that it is not always updated enough for the number of players with a certain science to reduce the actual cost of a science, but according to Zeta next era it will be more significant when inactive players are not taken into account as those without a science. As it is, Humans will pay the base cost, or closer to it then Elfs; very soon after all the Elfs get a science. This era for example; I payed the base cost for magic level 3 and the same price an Elf would pay for Level 4 the tick after the science costs were adjusted to compensate for newly acquired sciences, at which time the Elfs in my kingdom only had level 4, and I payed less then my Elf counterparts. I can imagine that next era, this will make Humans pay much less for Magic sciences then Elves. Some of you may be wondering, "So, if the more players that have a science reduce the cost by a certain %, then does it matter to which degree their science level is?" The answer to this is yes. If 30 out of 300 players have magic level 4, then the cost for magic level 4 is not the same as it would be if those 30 players had magic level 9, although I should certainly note that if you are going for magic level (x) then anything that a % of players have over magic level (x) becomes much much less significant. I will update to which degree this reduces prices when I figure it out, but I will likely never as it is not immediately updated and I cannot know what level everyone's sciences are, nor how many players are considered to be the "total number of players". Once again I will note that Humans already quickly get cheaper magic sciences when the player base of Elfs upgrades, and next era when "Total players" is adjusted to include only active players, this will be much more significant.

I was initially, well; wrong on this matter. I remember about 19 eras ago when Elves payed the base cost at any given time and Humans payed 3 times the base cost, but when I discovered that this was changed I had been wanting to test it for a while but the needs of my kingdom dictated I take an 18 era run as an Dwarf/Orc. Last era I found time to test it after my kd was essentially killed off, but I tested it so late last era that Both Humans and Elf payed the base cost anyways.



"Greetings all,

At first i ask for the flamers to avoid replying to this topic. I know it could bring some heated discussing!!

I would like to ask whether those posts i read around claiming that magic costs for humans and for elves are comparable (or even equal) are true.

Thanks in advance."


So to just answer your question and leave it at that, the answer would be yes. Humans and Elves do NOT pay the exact same costs, Humans pay 10x the base costs and Elves pay 2x the base costs; but Human prices scale down so much more quickly that if you are willing to stay a magic level behind the status quo your magic sciences costs will be the same, or cheaper. You will see this becoming MUCH more significant next era and in coming eras when the number of total players is reduced due to innactives not being figured into the count, and it will be interesting to see what this does for Humans compared to Elves.


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