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How to improve dwarves
18:35:12 Jan 17th 23 - Nayoke the Kid (Mr. Freeman The Freeman):

Came back to VU after a number of years and have been seeing that there have been a few changes to rebalance different races. Some part of me has always had a soft spot for dwarves, but they still seem to be kind of a dumpster fire. I could be wrong, so I am looking for some input. What do you think it would take to make the race more playable/competitive? Some ideas I had are:

>replace Cavemasters with a building (you can call them guild halls), which have a max effect capacity (like Gts with LoS or armories with training time) and only come into effect once I city has a certain number of mines (say 50k - they organize miners in big cities). If you needed 3k guild halls in a 90k city, ratios of homes to mines to guildhalls would be 15,000 / 72,000 / 3000. The benefit of this would be diverting the cost of Cavemasters effectively shaving days off of farming while also saving hundred of thousands of peasants that could be used elsewhere. 
>You would then need to replace Cavemasters with a new unit (call them dwarf lords). A 15/15 unit costing 5000 gold each (yes, very expensive), which when used in a ratio of 1:15 with other units reduces upkeep, up to 15%.

>or change axemen to at *least* 10/10

18:37:45 Jan 17th 23 - Nayoke the Kid (Mr. Freeman The Freeman):

if not 12/10

20:41:04 Feb 17th 23 - Mr. Existentialist:

I like it but as it's pitched won't it just allow dwarves with their racial bonuses and massive amounts of gold to simply dominate once they get a single farmed army out? My thinking is that whilst they are dealing with that one huge army you'll have bought enough time to make another ? 

It would make dwarfs primary for attack early game simply because in a week or two it'll be game over for any opposing kingdoms ? 

23:31:07 Feb 17th 23 - Nayoke the Kid (Mr. Nayoke Longbeard):

Not necessarily. As suggested it wouldn't change anything for dwarves in the early game. Only once they have built big cities would the guild halls have any impact. As dwarves currently are, they have a huge disadvantage late mid era and late game versus every race with the exception of probably a halfer who hasn't farmed exp because of their lack of aotd units, upkeep costs, and the difficulty of friendly mages to cast on their armies. I would argue that, currently, it's not even worth it for dwarves to train cavemasters. It takes around 2 weeks for cavers to pay themselves back. If you train cavers, you lose out on participating aggressively when you are at your comparable strongest, mid game. For example, this era on Val, I haven't trained a single caver. If I had my army would probably be half the size it currently is. As I understand it, cavers lose their efficacy anyways the more mines you capture, as the amount produced from each mine decreases individually. I could easily be wrong here, as I have played dwarf much less than some. This is kind of how I see it, though. 

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