Fantasia 42

Fantasia 42
13:06:01 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Uwer: Marijuana is illegal in my country. Still, I buy it. Law and order? Gimme a fuckin break.
13:13:17 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Kasakasz The Defender: law doesnt mean anything if You decide to ignore it also earth have natural borders - rivers for example... (You should know this just from playing this game)
13:17:13 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Bling: Uwer, maybe before declaring yourself an anarchist, try actually think about how society would break down without law and order, infrastructure etc. Then, instead of smoking your weed, try figure out how you are gonna grow your crops and defend them, cause their aint no mercy when the gloves come off.
13:35:11 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Uwer: Bling, you are a waste of time. Society is already in a breakdown. Go vote :) Praise your leader. You will always need one because you cant lead yourself.
13:42:57 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Bling: Dude, you aren't a part of any reality. Anarchists are just a bunch of doped up unemployable teens living in their parents basements. You wanna be a real man. Get a life, a job and try be of some use to society, there are enough leechers in this world. And I dont need a leader, I am my own boss. I put myself through university, built my company from the ground up, and now live anywhere I want, with a real income to give me a quality of life I have worked for. If I dont like a place, I move somewhere else. You and your silly idea's have nothing on what I have achieved, so put that in your peace pipe and smoke it.
13:51:22 Jul 19th 16 - Prince Nitral The Flamebearer: Just to say. I am ACTUALLY an anarchist. Anarchism is about locally controlled civil organisations freely choosing there methods of rulership , although there is still a lot of debate on how this would be actively applied. The idea behind it is , not against ALL GOVERMENT , but against CENTRALIZED LARGE GOVERMENTS , which are unaccountable , removed from the culture of and unsympathetic to the lives of every day people. You only have to look at how the south East of england receives the VAST majority of funding from the central government , due to it holding the capital. Yet peoples lives are not more valuable the closer they live to the governments seat of power. The monopoly of force in one hands provided by the centralisation of leadership roles means the masses are at the mercy of the few. But the idea of anarchy as lawlessness is just a parody of anarchy
13:55:48 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Bling: So communism.. that worked well. Anarchism by its own definition is the complete break down of all government. Not specific to 3 men sitting in a barn, or a centralized parliament based in London. In terms of what you have described, thats federalism, not anarchism. Federalism is the devolution of a central government to regional governance. Big difference. Anarchy = Congo. Federalism = USA and Canada.
14:02:55 Jul 19th 16 - Prince Nitral The Flamebearer: Anarchism is the idea of SELF GOVERMENT ..... So there is still a governmental structure. Anarchist thought makes a distinct between Central government (WHICH IS NOT THE SAME THING AS A FEDERAL GOVERMENT , TO THOSE AMERICANS WHO ASSUME THEY ARE THE SAME ) Centralized = A nation where the governmental decisions are concentrated into one group , which acts on behalf of the separate , mono-cultured or varied cultures , which reside in a state. A federal government is a TYPE of central government. Federal State = A collection of states , with separate cultures , united under a centralised state. Federalism is the BUILDING of a federal state.... Communism is the idea that the working class should abolish class , and that trade unions should step up and take the active role in leadership in a similar way to the guilds of the independent states of the past. Except with a co-operative income system and the abolishment of obstacles to success.
14:04:39 Jul 19th 16 - Prince Nitral The Flamebearer: Also , to the dopped up comment. I don't smoke , have recently finished Uni , where i studied Politics , Philosophy & Economics (Not at a prestigious university , i won't lie , but i worked hard regardless). Most people are disgusted by what they THINK communism is , rather then what communism is. Communism is not everyone gets equal results. It is everyone gets equal chances. Anarchism is not no one governs. It is that governance can not be forced on people. The people have to form there own forms of governance , without coercion from the state or any military power.
14:10:27 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Uwer: 11:02:55 Jul 19th 16 - Prince Nitral The Flamebearer: Anarchism is the idea of SELF GOVERMENT ..... Quoted for emphasis. .
14:11:31 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Bruce Willis: OK, let me help you out. Not sure where about in the UK you are from, but I'm originally from Altrincham, Cheshire. Based on your perception of what anarchy is, London as the central power base is disolved, and all the local taxes collected in my regional area of Cheshire is spent on my buddies and myself. Well done us. Fuck London. Thats federalism. So now we have no central seat of power, the French see that their is no centralized defense, the navy in Portsmouth dont really feel like defending our waters because they dont have enough money from taxes, and why should the people of Portsmouth pay for the whole British navy, so now the French invade. You starting to see the stupidity of the break down of a central government yet? Not yet? Ok, so we have a whole bunch of farmers in Staffordshire, and they see that Cheshire is having a great time of things, so as people natural desires go, they want a better way of life. So everyone in Staffordshire moves to Cheshire. Now with no central government planning in place, there is now a housing shortage, hospitals are overwhelmed, schools cannot accommodate all the new kids, and suddenly the quality of life in Cheshire drops, while in Staffordshire, the place goes bankrupt (see Detroit and Atlantic City as examples.)
14:13:37 Jul 19th 16 - Prince Nitral The Flamebearer: OK, let me help you out. Not sure where about in the UK you are from, but I'm originally from Altrincham, Cheshire. Based on your perception of what anarchy is, London as the central power base is disolved, and all the local taxes collected in my regional area of Cheshire is spent on my buddies and myself. Well done us. Fuck London. Thats federalism. federalism ˈfɛdərəlɪz(ə)m/ noun the federal principle or system of government. "idealists who were committed to European federalism" No it is not... So now we have no central seat of power, the French see that their is no centralized defense, the navy in Portsmouth dont really feel like defending our waters because they dont have enough money from taxes, and why should the people of Portsmouth pay for the whole British navy, so now the French invade. You starting to see the stupidity of the break down of a central government yet? Not yet? You are deceived for a few reasons. A good example is anarchist spain , which operated a centralised armed forces without a centralised government. The Free States of Ukraine also had freely associated militia forces which fought together , despite the fact they did not interfere in the governance of the other regions. Also , From vietnam to somalia to columbia to all across the americas , we have seen centralised forces STRUGGLE against localised unequipped guerrilla forces. Ok, so we have a whole bunch of farmers in Staffordshire, and they see that Cheshire is having a great time of things, so as people natural desires go, they want a better way of life. So everyone in Staffordshire moves to Cheshire. Now with no central government planning in place, there is now a housing shortage, hospitals are overwhelmed, schools cannot accommodate all the new kids, and suddenly the quality of life in Cheshire drops, while in Staffordshire, the place goes bankrupt (see Detroit and Atlantic City as examples.) That is why anarchism is a global philosophy and not a local one. The idea is to apply it globally. Also It is a proven fact economic migrants move because of POVERTY , and very rarely simply because of a better life.... People move because there starving , not because they can only have one holiday a year.
14:18:08 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Bruce Willis: I can also copy paste a useless quote. Try actually reading the history of federalism, its distinct variations in both the European and American forms of federalism, then get up off your ass and go live in other countries and see how politics works in the real world, not some classroom.
14:19:02 Jul 19th 16 - Prince Nitral The Flamebearer: Ive left the country I am from , Have worked and volunteered in politics since young... Im not quite sure what you are talking about tbh. Also re read my post , I posted it early on accident.
14:19:23 Jul 19th 16 - Prince Nitral The Flamebearer: And that is the dictionary definition of federalism , I looked it up for you.
14:24:09 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Israel Sesugh The Honest:
14:24:41 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Uwer: Bruce, you are being lame... People wont move to Cheshire if there is no houses, schools and etc... And you are not turning into an anarchist because you fear the French? OMG THERE IS NO ARMY TO DEFEND ME!111 See how primitive you are?
14:25:22 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Israel Sesugh The Honest: https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/federalism
14:27:59 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Israel Sesugh The Honest: The reason people THINK they need an army to protect them is because , the government has monopolised violence to such a high degree that the idea of self organising militarily is an alien idea to many. We have been citizens of a strong , centralised state which removes our need to do any of these things for ourself. But i simply don't think people realised the freedoms and rights they gave up by becoming members of these states.
14:28:28 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Uwer: And I still cant believe that for the first time I agree with Sesugh 100%.
14:30:35 Jul 19th 16 - Jesus Left Toe* (Lord Jlt The Unclean):* Can you guys take your arguments about failed political systems to a specific thread for it. We all know government is just a group of people, most notably ungoverned. Trying to get everyone to fit into social and economic systems is ultimately going to fail anyway. The solution is to move on and accept that your time on this earth is so close to insignificant, it makes no difference in the grand scheme of things. On a related note, your time on Fant will be limited when my armies walk through your cities and take your women and children for slaves.
14:31:53 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Bruce Willis: Here is two distinct examples of the real world. In the UK, you earn 50k a year. Your breakdown in contributions to your countries taxes are as such. You pay £9,200 to government in tax You pay £4,333 in National Insurance to cover pension and NHS and bullshit. So the UK government collects one payment from you of £13,533 which is spent on the country as a whole. In Las Vegas where i live now the breakdown would be this Federal Tax would be around 5k State Tax, which is spent locally isnt charged, but if i lived in say California, I would pay 8% tax to the state, which is spent locally.
14:31:59 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Israel Sesugh The Honest: Anarchism is the opposite of making everyone fit a system. It is the idea your community should be able to decide for itself as a group , instead of having to fit the image a man who lives 1000 miles for you has for your area.
14:32:17 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Uwer: You are just jealous of me, JLT. Ive brought life and flames to this thread :P
14:35:18 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Bruce Willis: Federalism is a system of government in which the same territory is controlled by two levels of government. Generally, an overarching national government governs issues that affect the entire country, and smaller subdivisions govern issues of local concern. Both the national government and the smaller political subdivisions have the power to make laws and both have a certain level of autonomy from each other. The United States has a federal system of governance consisting of the national or federal government, and the government of the individual states. The U.S. Constitution grants the federal government with power over issues of national concern, while the state governments, generally, have jurisdiction over issues of domestic concern. While the federal government can enact laws governing the entire country, its powers are enumerated, or limited; it only has the specific powers allotted to it in the Constitution. For example, Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution grants Congress the power to levy taxes, mint money, declare war, establish post offices, and punish piracies on the high seas. Any action by the federal government must fall within one of the powers enumerated in the Constitution. For example, the federal government can regulate interstate commerce pursuant to the Commerce Clause of the Constitution but has no power to regulate commerce that occurs only within a single state. Although the Constitution grants the federal government the power to tax, state governments are also able to levy taxes to support themselves, because that power is not forbidden to them by the Constitution. State governments manage matters of local concern, such as child protective services, public schools, and road maintenance and repair.
14:36:01 Jul 19th 16 - Jesus Left Toe* (Lord Jlt The Unclean):* I posted my entire Battle Plan on the first page of this thread and no one even noticed.
14:36:06 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Israel Sesugh The Honest: So...not what you said...which is the dismantling of central government?
14:38:26 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Israel Sesugh The Honest: Bruce I understand how tax works....You know your not actually responding to nothing i said?
14:39:55 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Bruce Willis: You cannot dismantle central government without chaos ensuing. Who would make the law of the land? Who would control international trade, negotiate for the country, defend the country when needed, oversee constitutional matters ????? We gonna leave it to farmer bill and the local lads down the pub. Guys, get real, you live in a VERY VERY fucked up deluded world to think you can devolve central government to local and make a country work.
14:42:06 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Israel Sesugh The Honest: You can not change any system without a certain order of chaos and the current system does not work so...? Also you could phase out the centralised government by slowly giving there powers back to the local councils. Slowly strengthening local councils , raising wages to attract more talent , which largely now ends up in the central government because of the lack of career opportunities in the local councils. Begin actively trying to engage communities in there decision making processes , and over time anarchy will arise as the natural form of governance amongst humans. I am not saying we should outlaw government by 5pm today....
14:46:38 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Bruce Willis: OK. So now i get elected to become President of the USA. I now want to do more trade with Britain. So.. who do I phone? Ah, wait, I just found out its the local council. Good stuff. So now as President of the USA, I must fly to Manchester to do some trade with Lancashire, then off to Chester to do a deal for Cheshire, and just so I dont waste time, I'll get the toll road on the M6 to save me some time in my deal meeting with staffordshire. Get real. Then the French start their shit. Maria Le Penn decides she is Napoleon. She lands in Dover, and declares Great Britain to be french territory. So now the poor council lad in Dover has got to phone every local council to see if we can muster a dads army???
14:48:30 Jul 19th 16 - Xerxes The Great* (Sir Xerxes The Slaver):* I'm just sitting here, scratching my head..
14:51:25 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Uwer: If you want to trade, there is a thing called the internet.
14:51:35 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Kasakasz The Defender: im grabbing popcorn
14:54:51 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Bruce Willis: Ok, so I am the President of the USA. with internet. So I want to sell more parts from Detroit into the UK, and use currency default swaps to facilitate the deal. The deal is contingent on England not being so mean to the welsh. What site should I post this deal on? Ebay, Amazon? do you know what a currency default swap is? What happens if China wants to scupper the deal by devaluing their currency to make the chinese made parts cheaper, and they dont really care if you are mean to the welsh or not??
15:17:10 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Uwer: This is what people call "free markets", Bruce. But its not. When central banks from countries devaluate money, it is not free market anymore. It is state enforced markets.
15:18:29 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Bruce Willis: What are you talking about?? You haven't made a single point apart from you're an anarchist and dont have a single fucking clue about what you are talking about.
15:37:15 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Bruce Willis: Uwer, you mocked the "stupid" people of Britain for stepping out of the EU, a bureaucratic monolith that became the epitome of everything wrong with politics. Then when they decide to be a self serving nation, in control of their own destiny, in charge of their own trade, currency and anything else they wanted to control, you called the nazi's for not remaining a part of this monstrous bureaucracy we call the EU government? See where you are starting to look stupid. Then you demand a free economy, however a free economy unchecked could do more damage in an hour than you can do in a lifetime of sitting in your parents basement decrying the real working class. Why, because i dont think you've done a real days work, or tried to buy a home. In a true free economy, unchecked, relying purely on the economic principles of supply and demand, a country would collapse in a fiscal year. Why you ask in all your infinite wisdom. Well with supply and demand comes pricing policies. When there is undersupply, prices rise. when there is oversupply prices fall. However, there are some markets, like housing, where rising prices and overdemand causes a bubble. In that bubble, true market value economics go out the window, and the desire for ownership outweighs the value. To cool this demand, and the inflation it causes, governments put checks in place, using interest rates. Without those, that bubble grows to the point where the cost of ownership now causes an undue debt on society. Your marxist ideology is backwards, because marx's principle of communism was a direct revolt against the industrial revolution. If he had his way, you would be picking cotton for the rest of your life, in the hopes of having just enough to feed your family. Get real.
15:42:31 Jul 19th 16 - Sir Caedus:
15:51:51 Jul 19th 16 - HorusPanic* (Mr. Teacher):* way to contribute
16:02:55 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Uwer: Bruce, you are probably one of the most stupid guys I ever found at this forum. Really, dude... your cognition level is so damn low... Read more Adam Smith and less Keynes. And Stalin and Hitler are the sides of the same coin, so I do not endorse marxism. I hate marxism by the way, a stupid doctrine that endorses violence between "classes" of people. Do you really think the state protects your economy? The state protects just a few companies that are the "friends of the king". They protect the banks that use your money with no responsability. I do not have anything left to discuss with your limited brain. You really makes me wanna vomit.
16:11:29 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Bruce Willis: Uwer, you have proven over and over to be a total moron. Not a single piece of garbage you have spewed has any factual reference apart from some random youtube conspiracy theory videos you watched that made you feel the need to be an anarchist, without even understanding the terminology, mocking Britain's rights to self determination outside of a bureaucratic giant called the EU because you believe in a world with no borders after taking a few pulls on your crack pipe.
16:22:44 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Uwer: You know nothing about Anarchy, kiddo. Now go suck the balls of your country. Go serve the army. You were made for it. A true idiot. Go fight against ISIS and die. Politicians dont care about the outcome of things. They care only about their $ income.
16:27:22 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Bruce Willis: lol kiddo. your words are so strong. You are a moron. Every statement you have made is moronic ie: relating to something a moron would say. Anarchism in its form represents no government. Its basically a bunch of unemployed teens chugging on their crack pipe wishing they were rich but dont have enough collective braincells left to function... pretty much a description of your day to day life.
16:28:04 Jul 19th 16 - Bran* (Mr. Bran):* "Politicians dont care about the outcome of things. They care only about their $ income." lets judge this statement upon whether or not UK leaves EU or not. the politician is clearly acting in their own interests like you say by being pro EU. so surely if we truely do leave, perhaps by early next year according to D Davis, then your statement will be wrong as the politicians will have acted against their own interests. im expecting us to leave, as i beleive the politicians will be out of a job come the next general elections should they ignore the will of the people and also uwer, i suggest you learn how to have a reasoned discussion, cause ive seen bling post multiple points throughout this thread only for you to disregard the whole lot and to call him names. it is you who comes across as ignorant and bigoted in all this
17:00:13 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Uwer: "im expecting us to leave, as i beleive the politicians will be out of a job come the next general elections should they ignore the will of the people" So here you admit that they only care about their income. They will vote yes to continue to get paid (by the will of the people! how romantic!). About Bling, I answered all his statements. Lets recap: I do not agree with a useless Queen. Commonwealth? Lol. You endorse noble blood in your country. Law and Order? Do we have law and order? Really? I dont think so. :34:00 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Bling: The EU is the culmination of Hitlers dream reich Bling said that Im a crackhead first and Im the ignorant? Cmon, Bran...
17:06:44 Jul 19th 16 - Bran* (Mr. Bran):* ""im expecting us to leave, as i beleive the politicians will be out of a job come the next general elections should they ignore the will of the people" So here you admit that they only care about their income." i said no such thing. i said theyd be out of a job, which is true. the fact theyd carry out the will of the people so as to continue being elected is surely what a representative democracy is about no? "I do not agree with a useless Queen. Commonwealth? Lol." thats not what taking part in a discussion is about. all you did was offer your opinion without addressing his points. he made it quite clear what the monarchy brings to the nation, now do you agree with the facts or not? not sure why im even bothering with you though, the Suns out for like the one week out of the year and im sat here responding to you
17:15:40 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Bruce Willis: Uwer, you've done nothing but spew shit. Here are your points. 1. Britain is moronic for having left the EU, a VERY large federal state with 2 layers of political enforcement, the first unelected and the second elected but with no power. As a result of their desire for self-determination, self-rule and national pride, they are nazi's. 2. You declared that even though you felt the nazi Brits were wrong for leaving a federal state filled with elected and unelected politicians, it agreed with your anarchistic philosophies because you watched so shitty youtube video about a secret organization controlling the world.. and during your drug enduced haze felt you now needed to be an anarchist. 3. Anarchy, by definition, is no rule. But you want self rule, and some local rule, which means you want some rule not no rule, so you want a smaller federal state, even though you are an anarchist who decries banks, politicians, business... in fact anyone who shows any level of success beyond your own abilities. 4. The Queen rules Britain. Which no monarchy has done since 1652. 5. The Commonwealth is stupid and another word for imperial. Too many star wars movies mixed in with your weed. Every country in the commonwealth is an independent nation, democratically elected with no interference by British state, and based on a loose agreement of collective bargaining. Basically what the EU styled itself on when it was the EEC. 6.. Then the world needed no borders, because you got your John Lennon records going, but when shown that society would collapse cause no one wanted to build roads, schools, hospitals etc, you then reverted to some other shit i cant be arsed looking up. 7. Then the Queens role was useless. London is the top tourist destination in the world and the monarchy plays a large part in it, same as mickey mouse does at Disney World. She gets paid a small allowance by the public purse, and as a whole she contributes more than she gets. 8. All politicians are money hungry grubbers. I know many who feel that their calling in life is public service. And they do their jobs very well, and contribute greatly to their communities. 9. Then Stalin and Hitler were the same, even though their ideologies lie on both ends of the political spectrums. 10. Then pretty much any other load of shit you mentioned after that.
17:40:53 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Uwer: Go for the Sun, Bran. I guess I dont need to say again that I dont believe in representative democracy... Bruce, what do you think about this nazi coin from 1934? Stalin and Hitler are the same, dude. Both assassins, megalomaniacs...
17:46:35 Jul 19th 16 - Mr. Bruce Willis: Its a 1934 Labour Day celebratory coin??? so what. The hammer and sickle have represented workers for nearly a thousand years, going back to the druids. Are druids nazi's too ??
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