Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / An open letter to Graymaine
| An open letter to Graymaine | ||||
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| 11:19:21 Mar 14th 26 - Den Norske Kongen Sam: Graymaine, I'm writing an open letter to you to discuss an issue which a fair portion of the VU community has with your gameplay - your usage of bonus turns. As you know, we're a very small community here. Though I don't know the figures, but I'd assume there's less than a hundred active players now. And, the reason we're all still here is because we want to play and enjoy the game - and I imagine that applies to you too. For all the time that I've played VU, I've never considered it a pay-to-win game, and I think this is a broadly shared feeling amongst most of the active player base. Over the past few eras however, on a few different worlds, it's been noted that you've been using an increasing amount of paid for bonus turns. And the feeling is that this is giving you an unfair advantage. Now, whether you agree with that or not isn't particularly relevant - as this is how people feel. You buying and using so many bonus turns is driving a fair number of the few active players we have to consider whether they wish to continue playing this game any longer. I appreciate you may feel that buying bonus turns puts you on a level playing field with some of the more experienced players in the game, and I understand that. But to that, I'd say, reach out to those players and ask how they play - and try and do the same. I also appreciate you may feel buying bonus turns helps you win. And I get that, we all want to win, we wouldn't be human otherwise. But I would ask you to consider, at what cost do you want to win? Beyond the amount of money you're spending, do you want to drive any of the few players we have from the game? As I don't think you do. After all, that ruins the game for you as much as the rest of us. Now, I'm not sure if you're aware, but this issue has been discussed many times on our Discord over the past few weeks and months. I haven't seen you on there, but I would encourage you to join. Although it might not seem like it as you read this, we're all a friendly, happy group, and I think I speak for us all when I say it would be nice to get to know you better. So, thank you for hearing me out. I hope you consider your gameplay a little bit - as you are a good player from what I've seen. It would just be nice for us all to face you on a more even playing field. All the best, ~ Sam | ||||
| 12:57:02 Mar 14th 26 - Knigh (Paladin Keoabe): Agree with this post | ||||
| 13:08:57 Mar 14th 26 - Captain Joebob The Butcher: Not to disagree. But since everyone has found short cuts to finding Terrain and city sizes ( circles extension) and RP points can give titles. What money does the game make without the purchase of BT’s..? How long will it be before we get on one morning and the game no longer exists since it makes 0 money. This game costs money to keep running. Not trying to disagree that it can be annoying.. but everyone here has found ways around paying money in rather than spending a little to find a way to get ZETA to come back. The player base went from hundreds back in the day to 30.. he can’t use the ad based turns anymore since we don’t have the base of players to get ads Anymore. At any one point he can’t use move exactly 4 Army movements extra in a 10 hour period. It’s not hard to plan for. It sucks. But it’s no Different than a CT excerpt for prep.. | ||||
| 13:09:20 Mar 14th 26 - Captain Joebob The Butcher: Except^ | ||||
| 13:18:50 Mar 14th 26 - Percy (Sir Kelsier): In Discord, we aren’t suggesting to quit buying and using paid turns. We’re suggesting to self-limit the rate of use to allow gameplay to be fair for those who don’t wish to buy BTs. A rate proposed in Discord was 1 BT use per day. This would remove BT-spamming, where you burn 3 BTs + tick change to gain 4 ticks of movement in one swing. This proposal still allows however many BTs you want to use across the era, but removes the game-breaking chain use of BTs that undermine any strategic planning. BT chaining is game breaking since there is no counter. There are counters to CTs (major MT losses restrict max distance). There are counters to army merging for speed (freeze the scouts and you freeze the whole stack). Any other speed-related boost is counterable. BT spamming is not. We, as a community, need to find a middle ground here BEFORE we lose any more players than we already have. Because this goes beyond Gray. Many people have left in the past as well due to BT abuse. | ||||
| 16:06:45 Mar 14th 26 - Knigh (Paladin Keoabe): We could as a community not accept players into the kingdom that bt spam? That way if you wanna go against the general consensus, you do it alone and more likely to get picked off. | ||||
16:53:20 Mar 14th 26 - Den Norske Kongen Sam:Knigh: I think this is the most pragmatic solution. We just need leaders in place that are prepared to take such action. | ||||
| 17:13:28 Mar 14th 26 - Sable (Arkanist Sable The Lioneyed): You want to support the game? I will personally buy a VIP account for any leader who wants to be part of the little Geneva Convention idea to make sure VU stays as fair as possible. | ||||
| 19:11:04 Mar 14th 26 - Mr. Naughtius Maximus: This is the most silly piece of BS I've ever read, and I don't say that lightly. You should delete this thread and apologize to Gray for being an asshat. ZeTa is not that interested in running this game, but the BTs he sells keep the server running. He has kept the server up for 20 years, and the only thing he gets apart from abuse from this tiny player base, the only thanks he gets, are the occasional BT buys to pay for the upkeep. There are dozens of unbalanced things about this game, worse than BT's. What about AOTD? What about Orc OOP? What about merging and planting cities faster than an army can move. What about no limits to kingdom sizes? Remove the BTs, and ZeTa has no reason to pay for YOU to keep playing this game for free. | ||||
| 19:17:24 Mar 14th 26 - Captain Joebob The Butcher: I also have a vip account. Which is a one time $40 fee. Not going to keep the game going. The best solution is to find something everyone wants added to the game for a fee and make the game money and get rid of the turn. Or more restrictive access like 1 per every 2 ticks to cull the spam. But to cut the only finding this game gets is crazy. Wouldn’t been a few weeks and this server would be gone. It sucks but it’s lucky people still pay for things since everyone went out and got around the vip bonuses. But zeta gets nothing for showing up to help. Just more players wanting things fixed who put absolutely $0 into the game and cry about wanting things fixed. I bet gray and myself have put more into this game in the last 3 eras than anyone else has in the last 10 besides maybe hanky. If any leaders want to vote on this. I also want to vote on the mili 0 orc. To get rid of one I want the other gone to. That also has ran players off | ||||
19:19:36 Mar 14th 26 - Den Norske Kongen Sam:Mr. Naughtius Maximus: Unsurprisingly, the only people that seem fine about the BT use are those in Gray's kingdom. | ||||
| 20:00:38 Mar 14th 26 - Bran (Mr. Bran Brandybuck): hes not saying people buy BTs to support the game, but that supporting the game is the effect of buying the BTs. | ||||
| 20:33:27 Mar 14th 26 - Den Norske Kongen Sam: I'm not sure you've understood my point Bran. And I just want to say, it seems there's a desire from those in Gray's corner to spin this narrative that he purchases BTs solely to support the game. And whilst I've already said that to me, that's laughable, that's neither here nor there. Whilst I've no doubt that it suits Gray's agenda to have the funding of the game and his BT use muddied, they're two completely separate issues. My point, and my sole point, was that if Gray continues playing in this unsportsman like way, he will likely drive a good portion of the few players we have away from the game. | ||||
| 21:27:08 Mar 14th 26 - Lady Jasmina: I have played this game for over 20 years now, we all love this game for some reason. Other than BTs there's really no other way the game has any income for the creator. Don't think there are lots of people buying sponsor accounts any more, considering we rarely have any new players. Over the years Gray has never been one to kill kingdoms by himself with his BT usage, never been a problem for anyone, except his extreme activity. I have never heard anyone say Gray is an issue over the twenty years. The guy clearly likes the game and enjoys the little small parts of the game, like killing Mage or peasants transports, teleporting a city and taking it with a small army. When have you heard Gray having a horde that can't be stopped? You've basically decided to bully a guy that buys bonus turns and molests Mages and undefended cities, and I will not be part of it. If you need Gray to leave so that the few players can keep playing, so be it. I will be leaving the game after twenty years as well, and frankly I suggest to Gray to leave as well, I would not want to be part of this community anyways. | ||||
| 21:40:53 Mar 14th 26 - Den Norske Kongen Sam: I feel as though you've all spent so much time telling yourself that Gray's supporting Zeta and VU financially, that you can't seperate VU's finances with Gray's gameplay. And it's preventing all of you around him from seeing how other players are being affected. You're conveniently ignoring other player's feelings. This narrative you've built up that Gray's buying BTs purely to keep the lights on is just bizarre. And the constant gaslighting of anyone that criticises the BT use is frustrating to see. | ||||
| 21:50:36 Mar 14th 26 - Lala (Mr. Drug Addict): the gaslighting around this has been insane. I honestly don’t see the point of playing a game where a select few players are okay with one dude getting 35 ticks when everyone else gets 24. Any other sane person would see this as a clear abuse of power but not this elitist group. Just insane to me ngl. Grayson’s efforts might not be enough to win him eras but he’s annoying enough with all that BT abuse that we have to consistently spend our magic resources and lose cities to him which otherwise will not be possible at all. | ||||
| 21:56:24 Mar 14th 26 - Lala (Mr. Drug Addict): Not sure how that’s a load of bullshit tbh. It’s a clear abuse of a game mechanic that has seemingly bubbled up again over the last couple of eras. And the fact that the entire team of players I’m a part of have had to be on the opposite side of this constant abuse is kinda insane. It’s getting pretty tiring to do this constantly tbh and I’m at a point where I’d rather personally just quit the game or quit playing against this group of players somehow but it’s impossible cuz they’ll be everywhere | ||||
| 21:57:06 Mar 14th 26 - Lala (Mr. Drug Addict): It’s like you’re going to continue to slap someone and when the person says enough I don’t wanna be slapped anymore, your response is but you used your 3 slaps too, so you deserve to continue to be slapped. Like WTF. That’s just crazy talk to me. | ||||
| 22:05:44 Mar 14th 26 - Lala (Mr. Drug Addict): That above example is literally what one of the BT abusers said to me. I’m not even kidding. | ||||
| 22:07:20 Mar 14th 26 - Grand Ape Kongdust: I'm trying to figure out what the point of this post is. | ||||
| 22:46:21 Mar 14th 26 - Mr. Bullwinkle Moose: Anybody want to create a special map which only the heavy hitter BT players can access? Set a BT usage rate on all of the other maps - but, let anybody who needs a lot of BTs to play be forced to use the special map. Since only a few players would be able to afford this, everyone goes untagged. Era winner gets more BTs, cash or?? To expedite game play, lose the bridges. This should make for a very short - albeit violent - era. | ||||
| 23:04:01 Mar 14th 26 - Captain Joemama: So a world for like 3-4 players? | ||||
| 23:17:43 Mar 14th 26 - Mr. Bullwinkle Moose: Might be. Depends on who likes to buy a lot of BTs. I don't think it'll be heavily populated. Sort of like GvE on steroids. Without a reliance on kds. or blockers, it'd be interesting to see who has the best OOP strategy, defensive/magic prowess and the best VU skills. In addition, maybe make one of the present maps only for players who get the initial 3 BTs - but can't buy any more. Game play would reflect their VU skills, ability to organize, prioritize, and strategize - and not their bank account. | ||||
| 23:40:51 Mar 14th 26 - Teirdel (Saint Teirdel): Gonna be the bad guy here. He buys bt and thank you Greyman for keeping the game running. Us poor people who cant also abuse bts appreciate it..... | ||||
| 00:14:26 Mar 15th 26 - Sable (Arkanist Sable The Lioneyed): I literally said I'd buy people who didn't have paid accounts the vip accounts. But I'd have to see the community is interested in thriving and not just surviving. Y'all can say that BTs support Zeta all you like, I won't argue that point. But it doesn't matter if Zeta is supported if people keep leaving (they are) And not all of those departures are the fault of someone spamming BTs (though many are) but almost all of them are from various game mechanics that need support from the admin that we aren't getting. Maybe the reason he doesn't make updates is because he doesn't need to be cause people keep funding it anyway. Maybe if everyone stopped buying BTs he's make some much needed updates. No one knows so that's not really an argument either way The point is people are quitting the game left and right and it IS dying. | ||||
| 00:21:46 Mar 15th 26 - Lala (Mr. Tinky Winky): > Without people willing to do both but mostly offer a constructive solution I have said plenty of times if there was a Patreon model to donate X per month to Zeta, I'm sure a lot of people would come forward and support it. ME included. | ||||
| 00:31:29 Mar 15th 26 - Sable (Arkanist Sable The Lioneyed): I would too @ZeTa please fix your game, we'll pay you | ||||
| 04:04:53 Mar 15th 26 - Teirdel (Saint Teirdel): I'd be down for a patreon sub.. | ||||
| 05:01:24 Mar 15th 26 - Sir Sininster Ivanho The Great: ZeTa, I don't have a PayPal account anymore. So there's no way to send money to you from my country. Sending a bank note is also unavailable. Can you make a website where we can donate via VISA directly. Or you can create your account in one of those Donating Websites as well so we can donate directly via VISA Credit cards. It may cut a few % but it's not a big difference. Example sites: https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-angelie-share-gods-love-and-give-back-to-her-dominican?lang=en_US&utm_campaign=fp_sharesheet&utm_content=amp13_t1-amp14_t1&utm_medium=customer&utm_source=copy_link&attribution_id=sl%3A256db70f-7fdc-4843-bd43-4a7c77d65f6d I want to donate 12 Euros or more this month or when new era starts. So please find a way to receive dollars/ euros via VISA Credit Cards. Thank you. Please note, PAYPAY has country restrictions so it is no longer a standard paying option (not available on my country). Also sending you a bank note isn't possible from my country either. | ||||
| 08:49:59 Mar 15th 26 - Knigh (Paladin Knigh): Jasmina no one is bullying everyone. The few time I have seen you speak your always accusing people of bullying. Debate and conversation is healthy. This is an issue that clearly annoys some people and having a forum to discuss it is a good idea. I have offered a solution Even percy has described how bts are abused, and cant be countered. This game shouldn't be a pay to win. WE as a community can do something about this. But it seems a chunk of the community are OK with the spam... so it won't change. But ty for trying Den Lady Jasmina: | ||||
| 10:33:05 Mar 15th 26 - Mr. Grayson Creede: Hi all, I just saw this so even though I hate this kind of nonsense talk, I felt I would respond as a show of respect to all the players. I do purchase BTs. It is an option for all of us on this online game as well as most other games you find out there. I don't break any rules and in fact feel that Zeta would appreciate if more of you would consider doing the same. There are things that I don't like about the game as well but would never callout players when they use them to my disadvantage. I hate AOTD. I feel if you lose troops in battle, that should be it. There are many players that, as some of you state, ABUSE that. I don't agree with the term you use, when it is within the game rules and set up. I live with it and play on. I refrain from calling out players that take advantage of what is available to them in the rules. I am a 75-year-old retired man that lives on SS income only. I am NOT wealthy and live a simple life in a very rural area. I heat my home with wood and am the last home on my dirt road with electricity. I am active in the game at this point in my life more and enjoy the action and interaction with most all of you. I've playing off and on since the very early eras A solution IMO to the BT problem is that those of you that object, purchase some yourselves. If not, that is your option and play on, Maybe those that object should ask Zeta. It is his game and for him to decide. I will refrain from apologizing as I feel I have done nothing wrong. BTW, I am certainly not the only player that uses BTs | ||||
| 10:48:12 Mar 15th 26 - Den Norske Kongen Sam: I'm not sure where you live, or your access to electricity has anything to do with what we're talking about here Grayson. We all have lives outside of this game, and your age nor finances aren't relevant to this conversation either. It's clear to me however that we're not going to see eye to eye on this matter. There's obviously you and your kingdom mates and where you all stand on the BT issue, and then the rest of us. If you and your friends can't differentiate between what you're doing - purchasing an advantage - and an in game mechanic like AoTD, then there's just no use in continuing this conversation. As I say, all you're doing in continuing is pushing people away from the game, because people don't want to play at a disadvantage. | ||||
| 11:20:35 Mar 15th 26 - Mr. Grayson Creede: Hi Sam. My point was that I am not rolling in dough any more than most others that play. Probably less than most. There are quite a few others that purchase and use BTS. Your issue is with Zeta, not me that plays within the game rules. Respectfully. Gray | ||||
| 13:12:12 Mar 15th 26 - Grand Ape Kongdust: @sam your approach here in this post was never going to be productive unless you moderated to keep the conversation constructive. | ||||
15:06:16 Mar 15th 26 - Mr. Grendel:Mr. Grayson Creede: I do believe the reason that its a problem when you do it and not someone like hanky is because you are considerably more active than the rest of the player base already. I dont like the bt spam myself but its because bt spamming to win makes it a worthless win. Perhaps as a middle ground consider not using them for insane movement and maybe just for farming. Or limit yourself to 1 bt per tick to at least give the inactive players a chance. Its every individuals choice still so whatever you choose to do ill be after you 😉 | ||||
| 16:23:45 Mar 15th 26 - Djinn Bartimaeus (Bartimaeus The Orc): I mean imo I think the only fix and it’s ultimately up to Zeta would be having a cap of BT’s used a day. I personally have bought BT’s 2-3x my whole “career” playing this game so I’m not “pro” BT buying but I do understand it is a mechanic everyone can access. Just like 0 mil AOTD orc. Everyone can do it and if you choose not to it’s your choice. But with the BT spam I do feel it’s a bit more on the excessive side. You get 1 BT every 3 ticks right? Maybe cap it out at you get 3 a day and you can use them how you wish and more the next day. That would keep the “funding” going and people can still get that edge of 3 extra ticks a day just have to be strategic with how you use them for the day. 🤷🏽♂️ As a whole I think we all agree the game needs a lot of fixing in some areas to bring some life back to the community and the will to want to play. That #gofundme or something like that would be an awesome idea but only if the game gets improvement's otherwise we’re just donating money for the same broken game which isn’t fair either ha. Just my thoughts. | ||||
| 17:11:05 Mar 15th 26 - Teirdel (Saint Nyx Las): Agreed. The issue is Zeta not updating the game. | ||||
| 08:08:24 Mar 16th 26 - Lala (Mr. Lala): Gray, anytime I don't have any valid responses, I bring out the age and income card too. Totally a very valid and constructive response. Cheers! | ||||
| 17:41:15 Mar 16th 26 - Prince Mirelurker: You guys did the same thing quite recently to Bogdan, and probably to bunch of other people in the past, I have not been around long enough to know the past.You guys go on on witch hunt attacking someone, and the solution is usually the person has to quit. Bog was accused of all sorts of things, and it was only his kingdom member that were defending him, same situation like now, the victim is Gray and only his Kd is defending. Will the witch hunt stop once you make him quit? | ||||
| 18:17:45 Mar 16th 26 - zuall (Mr. Zuall The Bog): I'm stepping back from the game will probably only have 1 character running for the foreseeable future after these eras end. So you will hear less complaining from me. | ||||
| 19:07:50 Mar 16th 26 - The Sprout: Mirelurker I agree! Its the rubbish BS that the community creates that is the worse part of the game. | ||||
| 03:15:48 Mar 17th 26 - Despotes Haunter: I thought the The Real Housewives of Orange County were dramatic. Someone bring the camara crew to VU. My bookmarks | ||||
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