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Did Jesus Exist ?
01:31:14 Feb 26th 08 - Duke Ulgrin The Bastard:

What does evolution not explain?  Not admit?  Try us, you either read a pretty bad book on evolution, or didn't read it all.


02:38:47 Feb 26th 08 - Mr. Zryike:

see right there! you are trying to blame it on something! that is exactly what i mean, you are always trying to find a way out of it. and yes i did read it.


11:36:44 Feb 26th 08 - Mr. Mushasji:

well, gothrim, that's better/righter than what i wrote :-)

but you get what i mean (explaining those things in a foreign langauge gets difficult sometimes) ...


06:17:13 Feb 27th 08 - Duke Ulgrin The Bastard:

"see right there! you are trying to blame it on something! that is exactly what i mean, you are always trying to find a way out of it. and yes i did read it."

So then what do you not understand?  Chances are great it's just something you didn't comprehend or your book left out.  You can't say it's wrong without at least explaining why you think it is.


14:59:44 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Zryike:

I read that book 3 times! and once again your trying to blame it on something, see we never accept the other persons side its just in are nature you guys will just keep blaming it on something while so will we so let us end this discussion NOW.


16:47:45 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Clamps The Dishonoured:

I'll never stop the discussion just because the other side of the question has run out of points to make. When do you hear a scientist say "let's end the discussion"? Why not tell us what in this book was so convincing. I'm willing to bet that any research they give supporting something mysterious or unexplainable (without a god to clear up the mystery) is based on outdated studies. Seriously pick the best one you have and we'll put it to the test.

The thing is that all of us who don't believe know that the book is biased because there are no real textbook companies that would put creationism (philosophy) in a science book. The only explanation is a biased Christian publishing house so if you'd please name the publisher and/or writers that would help too.


18:16:34 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Zryike:

ok one thing that you need to explain is the big bang if it created all life then what created it?


18:41:05 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Mushasji:

the big bang didn't create life ... it created the universe, and it has nothing to do with evolution (pure physics)(and the big bang-theory is still under discussion (although nobody has a reasonable better explanation atm), too many unknowns)

and what might have created the big-bang?  the shrinking of the previous universe ... (i suggest you read about that yourself, i recommend stephen hawkins)


18:44:18 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Zryike:

the big bang theory is what make evolution a theory because like mushasjii said:

(and the big bang-theory is still under discussion (although nobody has a reasonable better explanation atm), too many unknowns)

it has to many unknowns


18:49:43 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Mushasji:

lol, that's just stupid ;-)

atleast we can present ideas, proof, logic, reason, etc ... unlike you, who just 'says' ... about a god there are only unknowns ... about evolution lots of proof is around ...

you have no point (denie it all you want, it doesn't make it any less so)


19:01:05 Feb 27th 08 - Sir Binh The Assassin:

God has even more unknowns. lol

It's easy for a man to explain things that they don't clearly know yet by pointing at "God." "God did this. God did that. There is nothing he can't do, etc." There will always be things that we don't clearly know. Human simply can't know and explain everything and that is one of the reason why there are believers in the existance of "God."

I question you: Who give god this power to do everything, who created god himself? God just appeared out of nowhere? If he can do everything, why can't he make this world a world of pure good? And why doesn't he punish me while I'm typing this for denying his existance?

I'll tell you what, if god can hear my thought, (he can if he truly is "God"). If he can create an event that will break my leg and miraculously heal it fully later within 24 hours, I'll believe that he exist and will become one of the believer (Again, he can if he truly is God). Talk to you later in 24 hours :)


19:06:05 Feb 27th 08 - Duke Ulgrin The Bastard:

First off, the big bang did not create life, it created the universe.  So are you asking what created life or what created the universe?

The best explanation as to what "caused" the big bang are fluctuations in quantum mechanics.  I'll admit I'm not the head authority on that field.  However, research it--the evidence exists.

Now let me ask a counter-question:  what existed before God?  Where did God come from?

Edit:  Wow, I was gone for ten minutes to pick up lunch and already there are several posts ahead of me...


19:10:48 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Zryike:

first off read the bible. second God was has existed since ever none created him hes letting us thinks like this if you read the bible you would understand my point of view. Binh he wont break your leg because he wants you to believe in him without him having to do anything, it called faith and there are many many historical documents that point to him existing just Google search it.


19:15:56 Feb 27th 08 - Sir Binh The Assassin:

And exactly why should I trust this "Bible" if it is written by man and not God himself?


19:17:02 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Zryike:

because God commend men to write it thats why so it was basically god writing but done by the hand of men


19:20:21 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Mushasji:

how convenient :-p

and that is supposed to be an explanation? (what about the other 'holy' books in other religions? they are lies? and your book is the only right one?)


19:24:59 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Might The God of Cows:

OMGWTFCOOKIES!


19:25:20 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Demonsul:

god is a mental representation of what man aspires to be.

i read that somewhere...


19:26:29 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Zryike:

you know i kinda think that was partly right. and what other holy books?


19:27:03 Feb 27th 08 - Sir Binh The Assassin:

So if I write a holy book about Buddha for example or any other religion, is it me writing it with my free will or is it the gods in those religion that commanded me to write it? Are these religions also true if I wrote a holy book on it? If all these are true, which god should I believe in?

Why should I believe that God himself commanded these men to write the holy Bible and it's not just them playing pranks on the rest of the world to achieve a certain goal (Uniting the peoples with religion to fight against a certain enemy. To teach good morale to the world, etc.)?


19:27:38 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Zryike:

and uh what i meant about the documents pointing to him existing it was actually jesus not God


19:30:29 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Zryike:

well the bible has other historical documents that back it up on it being written a long time ago. as for the other religion if they came to you in a vision then it would be them guiding you to write it and if you wrote it a long time ago and the bible wasn't written then yeah they would probably be true. also if God didn't exist they would probably be true.


19:30:41 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Mushasji:

and what other holy books?  (i'm sorry but this is a silly question ...)

i'm pretty sure you've heard about the koran? or Bhudda as Bihn said?


19:31:57 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Mushasji:

so, if i'm dellusional and write it down, then it is a god that's speaking to me?


19:35:02 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Mushasji:

so the greek and the egyptians, etc didn't write about their gods? (they are a lot older then your biblical god, so they have higher authority according to you ...  you're worshipping the wrong dude)


19:41:12 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Zryike:

uh did they write a holy bible? and if your disillusioned and write stuff down im not sure... depends on the time line.


19:41:25 Feb 27th 08 - Duke Ulgrin The Bastard:

"first off read the bible"

I have.  I was raised Methodist.

"second God was has existed since ever none created him hes letting us thinks like this if you read the bible you would understand my point of view"

My point was actually why you reject the idea that what came before the big bang is eternal, while you accept God can be.

"it called faith and there are many many historical documents that point to him existing just Google search it."

Google search it?  That topic has already been discused in the past seven pages of this thread.

"and if you wrote it a long time ago and the bible wasn't written then yeah they would probably be true."

Um... there are religions older than Christianity.  Say, classical Greek mythology.  If being "old" is proof then we should believe in minotaurs and Zeus, shouldn't we?  Or Isis, or Thor, or prehistoric tribal gods that have long been forgotten?  I'm not quite sure what you mean by timeline.  It is common logic that the first thing that is spoken is not always the right thing.


19:43:39 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Zryike:

no Christianity was the first religion is if you read the bible then you'd now that.

if the big bang was real then it should be happening again and again and again, y isnt it?


19:47:31 Feb 27th 08 - Sir Binh The Assassin:

Christianity is probably the first monotheism religion but it is by far not the first religion.


19:49:42 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Zryike:

monotheism? the topic is now the bible and their are also many other historical documents that points to events  that are in the bible showing that the bible is true.


19:50:25 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Mushasji:

actaully the big bang is a reoccurring ongoing thing ...

we are now expanding ... later, the universe will shrink again (like i said, read steven hawkins)

and you probably say the world is only 6000 years old? (christianity was first ... are you insane?)


19:53:05 Feb 27th 08 - Duke Ulgrin The Bastard:

Not even the first monotheistic religion.

Zryike, like I said, I did read the bible.  I am asking what your LOGIC is.  The bible was written about 1900 years ago.  Greek texts were written some 2000+.  By your LOGIC the Greek religion must be the correct one since it came first.  How do you know you're not wrong and the Greek rights?

And by the way, I don't think you have any clue what the big bang is.  The big bang isn't happening over and over again because once it happened, the universe went from being an infinitely condensed sphere of energies to a universe of matter and energy.  It's not a great anology when you get into specifics, but a bomb only detonates on.  However, there are theories stating the universe will collapse back on itself, but evidence suggests the opposite, that it is expanding.

Edit:  as Mushasji said, the big bang technically still is "ongoing."  That's one reason the bomb anaology isn't the best.


19:53:29 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Mushasji:

you are saying that the egyptians hierogliphs are not about their gods?

you are saying that the carvings on the inca-temples are not about their gods?


19:56:13 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Zryike:

just to tell you guys im not actually big on the subject so you guys are probably having a good time pounding me...

I need someone who know tons of stuff about Christianity!


19:56:27 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Mushasji:

and if your bible would be the word of god ... then why didn't 'your savior' wrote it himself? (instead of someone else about 80 years later, 120 years and 200 years?)


20:00:00 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Zryike:

because Jesus was resurrected from the dead and had gone back up to heaven before the bible was written


20:03:44 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Mushasji:

and you see nothing wrong in the fact that so many years later somebody else, who wasn't even alive during jesus's lifetimen writes down what he thinks to be true?    you see nothing wrong in the fact that the romans 'assembled' the bible (300 years later)?  you see nothing wrong in the fact that similar texts (written by other 'apostels') did not make the cut?  it's all divine?

come on man ... get serious


20:11:17 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Zryike:

first off i can never be serious about anything im just that kind of guy and what i said a little while ago was me being confused because i was also doing a big economic test


20:20:08 Feb 27th 08 - Mr. Clamps The Dishonoured:

I know tons of stuff about Christianity. It's that stuff that made me atheist. The more you know about it the less it holds up. That's why I went on about faith earlier, because it is essentially the technique of avoiding evidence that contradicts your first idea. Jesus never came back either. That's just a story told about him just like it was told about dozens of other ancient celebrities. He was only the MOST RECENT one to plagiarise that story too.

BTW the bible says the first monotheistic religion was Judaism. BTW even that is incorrect =p. I had a vision to tell you all of this, Zryike and my testament is backed by countless historical evidences. Now all I need is a church to make cash off this and to get countries convince their people that we must go to war in the name of...oh wait... I won't be able to manipulate people or con them out of their money...I guess it won't be a religion afterall.


13:49:26 Mar 2nd 08 - Mr. Killerelf:

Personly, im kinda in the middle of a Christian and an aethist kinda thin, but i do believe in god, and it is a well known fact that Jesus did exist, and also, from what ive read with the big bang, the universe won't shrink, its just gonna keep expanding and speeding up to one day cause "The Big Rip".

which is where everything begins to expand to fast by something called "dark matter"or sumtin like dat, and the very atoms will b split up in this. then again, nothing is certain, also, god cannot intervene because we are meant to learn from his teachings, sure it would be alot easier for him to just brainwash us into good little civilised people but ask yourself, would that be right?

he gives us the choice what we do in life. we can either follow the right path which doesnt mean following his religion, but rather to just be kind, respectful, helpful and forgiving, or we can go down the other path in life....

if the religions of the world are all wrong, it doesn't mean we wasted are time following them, because alot of people have nothing else to hope for, and it gets them through life.


17:05:35 Mar 2nd 08 - Sir Kassius The Brownie Bandito:

the most widely seen universe idea is that its still expanding but will start slowing, then itl stop, then itl contract back to where it exploded then expand and contract again and again, im not sure bout the "The Big Rip"

dark matter is essentially anti matter. what i mean is normal matter makes up a tiny percentage of the universe i.e suns planets honey-badgers and suchlike while dark matter is the stuff in between. Just trying to clear uop a bit but this is all from my physics class so it may be a bit flawed


17:43:20 Mar 2nd 08 - Sir Iwasfrozen VII:

Dark matter is not anti-matter.

 


17:49:44 Mar 2nd 08 - Sir Kassius The Brownie Bandito:

yeh was trying to find out how to put it down :P shuda looked it up on the net 1st


18:01:49 Mar 2nd 08 - Sir Iwasfrozen VII:

lol, :P


23:01:34 Mar 16th 08 - Mr. Overcome:

During recent decades, new scientific evidence from many scientific disciplines such as cosmology, physics, biology, "artificial intelligence" research, and others have caused scientists to begin questioning Darwinism's central tenet of natural selection and studying the evidence supporting it in greater detail.

Yet public TV programs, educational policy statements, and science textbooks have asserted that Darwin's theory of evolution fully explains the complexity of living things. The public has been assured that all known evidence supports Darwinism and that virtually every scientist in the world believes the theory to be true.

The scientists on this list dispute the first claim and stand as living testimony in contradiction to the second. Since Discovery Institute launched this list in 2001 over 700 scientists have courageously stepped forward to sign their names. The list is growing and includes scientists from the US National Academy of Sciences, Russian, Hungarian and Czech National Academies, as well as from universities such as Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and others.

A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism
"We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."

check out this page: http://www.dissentfromdarwin.org/


06:57:36 Mar 17th 08 - Mr. Elliott:

jesus loves me


10:57:10 Mar 17th 08 - Duke Ulgrin The Bastard:

Like most creationist/ID sites, the articles only serve the purpose to try and shoot up red flags on a small case study of experiments, throwing in propganda phrases like "scientists only see what they want to see."

For example, this article tries to punch a hole in the moth theory by having one person state natural selection might not have been a driving force at all.  Great.  So what is their testable explanation?  Or perhaps they'd rather just leave you hanging in the air with a question since there really isn't all that much actual evidence to back them up.


11:44:33 Mar 17th 08 - Mr. Overcome:

lol, i think your to blind to see anything else but your own ass^^

btw. when people look at those pictures where they show apes turning in to men. that is absurd, cause they have yet to find any evidence between that. and that is the missing link.

i will start to trust evolution the day that i can see everything with my own eyes. untill that, i will keep trusting the feeling in my heart that tells me that there is a God that created me. and as long as my prayers are answard there is no reason for me to believe something else. also i find it easier to believe that God has been forever and created everything, instead nothing created anything, like the evolution believes. (evolution for me: first there were nothing, then there was a bang, and suddently there was apes turning into men:P)


11:54:53 Mar 17th 08 - Mr. Overcome:

i watched a debate with christians vs humanistic.

there were alot of good arguments from both sides, but one thing i find rather weird is that humanistic can't explane the feelings like love and the free will.

they believe that we are all on some kind of autopilot where we just do things to survive. but i have a choise weather if i would like to live or not.

most people should have a feeling that there is more out there then just material and things you can see. and this feeling can't evolution describe.


13:29:22 Mar 17th 08 - Mr. Mushasji:

'love' (and any feeling for that matter) is just chemistry (drugs in your brain)


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