Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / Life on other planets

Life on other planets
16:01:38 Dec 25th 07 - Mr. Vengence:

Do you think it exists? or not? I will show the two sides to the issue here as i see it, but i would be interested to know others opinions. note that i am as yet undecided.

Evidence for no life on other planets:

It is by an amazing event that our planet was made. you must consider what makes life possible. the ozone, the situation in regard to the sun, and many other things. Jupiter keeps large meteors away from us, as meteors that may hit us are pulled by jupiters gravity to it instead of to us. Also, we have just the right amount of disaters. this may sound strange, but it is true. for without disasters, like the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs, then nothing would ever change, we would not evolve. if it wasnt for the disaster that wiped out the dinosauers, our lives would be very differeny today. this is the basic thing, you get hwtai mean, the conditions are sso amazing, that it is almost impossible for it to be repeated

Evidence for life on other planets:

When you look at the things said above, it does seem that we are alone in the universe. but then you must look @ the size of the unisverse, how huge it is. surely out there somewhere there must be another planet like us, you may think. well, this is very likely when you look at it like that, but when you lok at the evidence against it above then, well, it doesnt seem likely at all.

 

what i have pput here is on the basis of other intelligent lifefroms, not bacteria.

So, opinions please


16:50:34 Dec 25th 07 - Mr. Agent Clamps:

How come not bacteria? Just not interested or are you pretty sure that there are bacteria? I really can't think of a reason why there couldn't at least be some bacteria on some distant planet. The funny thing is that if I say that then I'm admitting that given enough time there would be evolved "bigger" things on another planet. I feel funny about saying that there could be though (like, because the idea came from fiction first and now people are trying to use science to show it is true after the fact). Oh well I guess I think it's a question worth knowing but I don't think man has the means to find out even if there is something out there. Something in me really hopes that there is. ps fun idea for a thread.


18:25:38 Dec 25th 07 - Duke Luta Mor:

The universe is huge... how many billions of stars and solar systems are there?  Earth is but a tiny tiny little part of it all, so I think chances are high there is at least simple life (bacterial, perhaps viral though technically viruses aren't living organisms) somewhere.

"if it wasnt for the disaster that wiped out the dinosauers, our lives would be very differeny today. "

Er... what does this have to do with life on other planets  The dinosaurs were living creatures you know.  Maybe this should have been clarified to specify intelligent life.  Though it's possible a dinosaur could have reached sentience, isn't it?


18:34:14 Dec 25th 07 - Mr. Kassius The Kookie Bandit:

i think its pretty certain that theres extra life SOMEWHERE out in the universe, ive herd a few times that the main thing is liquid water thats needed but that might be a load o cobbles


18:41:29 Dec 25th 07 - Duke Luta Mor:

For amino-protein based life like here on earth, water is definitely a necessity.  We just don't know how life would be if it didn't use the same building blocks as life on earth.


18:39:10 Dec 26th 07 - Mr. Vengence:

Duke lota person, my reason is this: If we idnt have the odd catastrophe, then life wouldnt be able evolve, life would get stuck in a rut so to speak. If the dinosaurs hadnt been wiped out, then they would still be here today, the animals on the world woulfd be different and we would have dinosaurs rampaging through our cities, if we indeed would have manged to survive at all.


18:51:55 Dec 26th 07 - Duke Luta Mor:

The dinosaurs were still evolving, you know.  Even humans are.  Yes, the world might have been different, and humans may not be alive today, but there would still be LIFE on earth.

I think you are trying to argue whether a sentient species could have evolved without the odd catastrophe.  But that's not necessarily true.  A lot of mid-sized carnivorous dinosaurs are thought to have hunted in packs and be very social creatures.  Kind of like primitive man.  Maybe they could have achieved sentience too, but we won't ever get the chance to know now :)


18:55:56 Dec 26th 07 - Mr. Vengence:

very true...what I am saying is, that the world is amazing, im not just talking about catastrophes here. I am talking about the fact that we are the only planet in the solar system which has the exact right amount of heat, that the ozone keeps us alive, that if jupiter wasnt there then all the space debry that its hug gravity attracts at least some of it would hit earth. many of the pieces of spaace debry that hit jupiter are as big as the earth. the earth could easily have been hit by one, and then we would all die, due to the pplanet being smacked by a chunk of rick the same size as it.


19:02:06 Dec 26th 07 - Mr. Killer:

"Duke lota person, my reason is this: If we idnt have the odd catastrophe, then life wouldnt be able evolve, life would get stuck in a rut so to speak. If the dinosaurs hadnt been wiped out, then they would still be here today, the animals on the world woulfd be different and we would have dinosaurs rampaging through our cities, if we indeed would have manged to survive at all."

What?! Humans wouldn't have existed, or it's very unlikely they would have... Why wouldn't we evolve without the odd catastrophe? We just needed the first one as I see it, before life ever existed on Earth. The most common theory of it being a planet hit into Earth, broke up into two, made the earth spin really fast, with a sattelite(the moon) breaking off, and then life could begin. But perhaps, life would have beugn on Earth anway, unlikely though. Anyway, in my opinion what you said about dinosaurs was very biased, as humans aren't the best of evolved forms of animals, being one of the only ones who kill other animals for no reason, apart from the chimpanzee, our closest cousin, and there is a few others that are cruel towards other animals, but still eat a bit of them, like the Killer Whale, and tamed cats kill birds and don't eat them, but this is a result of their hunting still when they don't need to, just for some reason from when they had to catch food. Dinosaurs would have evolved in some shape or other to more advanced life forms. Anyway, the most complicated lie forms aren't always the most successful, in fact, hardly ever are. Humans aren't for one thing, many insects are much better off than them in reality.
              Anyway, it's very likely there is life on other planets, especially uncomplicated stuff, but it only take a few hundred million years for it to grow into more complicated stuff. There is lots of planets after all, several millions. Life may not even need to grow on planets, maybe they could grow on meteors or the like... All they require is a few basic things to start off life. (well, ok... a lot...) Any other life would proably be completely different, not only in shape, but atomic structure, though there might be a very slim chance life is the exact same on some other planet.


19:05:04 Dec 26th 07 - Duke Luta Mor:

Well actually, the killer asteroid that exterminated most dinosaurs (if that's the current theory, I've heard a lot of different thing lately that all claim to be "the latest evidence") killed the large species, but much plant life, aquatic creatures, insects, small reptiles, (I'd say mammals but I actually don't ever remember hearing about mammals in the dinosaur times), and bacteria all survived.

Let's say life were to develop deep in an underwater ravine by a thermal vent on the moon of a larger planet... life on earth has been  known to be very resistant to extreme conditions, it is not entirely improbaby that simple life could form like this.  Given time even simple life has the ability to alter its environment (ie Oxygen revolution) to make it possible to support higher life forms.

Basically... life has a will to survive XD


19:07:12 Dec 26th 07 - Mr. Vengence:

yes killer, i see your point. I am talking about complex life here, and the conditions would have to be perfect. then again, there are a loooot of planets..i just dont know.......lol


19:36:44 Dec 26th 07 - Mr. Kassius The Kookie Bandit:

The dinosaurs were still evolving, you know.  Even humans are.  Yes, the world might have been different, and humans may not be alive today, but there would still be LIFE on earth.

.........were not evolving ya know, ever since medicine was invented the "weak" have started surviving so by evolution nd natural selections theories were basically the same as weel ever be unless we give up medicine


20:08:51 Dec 26th 07 - Duke Luta Mor:

Technically true, but even medicine can't make the weakest survive.

Also, while our physical bodies may not be evolving (probably only getting weaker actually) our brains still may be.  I'm not really sure about that though.  Ask a professional :)


20:10:22 Dec 26th 07 - Mr. Vengence:

lol....are brains, well, they might be, slightly...but how exactly? hm, might have to google that one.....


20:10:40 Dec 26th 07 - Mr. Agent Clamps:

we are the only planet in the solar system which has the exact right amount of heat

The neat thing about this is that we have simple life living in solid ice and super-heated water and other fluids. On a planet that was much hotter or much colder than ours, the forces of evolution might be able to still allow for more complex life. Of course, there is the chance that our temperature/pressure/chemical situation is the only one that will work for complex life but hey, maybe not. Evolution has done some neat things =p


20:13:35 Dec 26th 07 - Mr. Vengence:

Clamps, it is indeed cool how we have smaller thihgs like thaty living in dif tempratures. i think that, however, it may be difficult to develop mrore when enduring that harship, although i guess some species may PREFER to be in an extreme as such.


21:40:45 Dec 26th 07 - Mr. Killer:

I don't think many complex creatures could form in great pressure, and probably not heat or cold either. I doubt the human is evolving much, they've no reason to be... Dropping off fingernails and toenails might be a start though... humans have rendered them completely useless. I think people are getting stupider as well... The majority seems to be stupider, from the influence of others, and then the rest are smarter, for some reason or other...


21:47:35 Dec 26th 07 - Mr. Vengence:

hey! i am ahead of my age, will be starting GSCE's slightly early probs, so dont say im stupid! (i wouuld be able to start early cos  i homeschool)

Indeed killer, it is unlikely complex life would form in a extreme climate. it is, however, possible. and yes, the human race is no longer evolving, though i dont like the stupidder remark.


22:02:36 Dec 26th 07 - Mr. Agent Clamps:

I think people are getting stupider as well

We don't have any way of measuring if intelligence is changing because the results of the tests are based on curves derived from the mean intelligence of everyone taking it. In other words if the whole of human kind improves in intelligence then the average score just gets readjusted so we can't compare over time.

One thing we do know though is that information storage and retrieval systems like writing all the way up to online encyclopedias are reducing our memory. There was a time when people knew entire story books nearly word for word but now people don't remember their own phone number if they don't have to call their own office/home. All this isn't evolution though, many of the things called intelligence (like memory or logic) are just like "mental skills" and we are getting out of practice and lazy.


22:04:16 Dec 26th 07 - Mr. Kassius The Kookie Bandit:

and we are getting out of practice and lazy.

HELL YEAH!


22:42:57 Dec 26th 07 - Mr. Umbar:

Why do all people think:
Is there something on a distance planet bleblebleble....?
What's the diffrence? No..there are some bacteria on some planet...WOW!
Gosh...and what now? Nothing....
They better look not at all those other planets but at the earth! That will make us better :) We don't even ow know everything about our planet.....we don't know or own history completely...
The exploring of tha universe costs loooooooooots of money....and what we gained from it ? :S We know there's another planet or something...but what for difference does it make?
Do you imagine howmuch shools, hospitals, etc, etc. could be made for all that money?


23:30:11 Dec 26th 07 - Mr. Kassius The Kookie Bandit:

ok everyone you herd the man we arnt alowed to make any more posts as it takes money away from schools, umbar its not as if were launching a setellite


08:43:04 Dec 27th 07 - Duke Luta Mor:

Umbar, inevitably earth will become overcrowded and its natural resources exhausted.  As science-fictiony as it may sound, in 100 years we may be relying on resources harvested in space.  Or where does everyone go if the ice caps melt and 2/3s of the world's land mass is underwater?

You have to look at the bigger picture stuff.  Pain now to ease pain later.  It's like gasoline cars:  yes, we could all buy hybrids that only take half the gas, but that will only delay the problem, not solve it.  That's why you begin investing in hydrogen, electric, solar, ethanol, etc-fueled cars.

Of course, no one can really agree on what the bigger picture should be.  NASA has had so many delays in recent years because now that the cold war's over, no one wants to give it a big budget.  And you can't promise conclusive results for bigger picture schemes either.


13:08:31 Dec 27th 07 - Mr. Umbar:

Harvest Resources from another planet !?
Be realistic! Any idea how many the transport will cost!? And so...the price of the product?!
and it's not that i'm agianst science or so...
In mine opinion you only better can invest in other science...


14:09:21 Dec 27th 07 - Lord of The Morning:

" Or where does everyone go if the ice caps melt and 2/3s of the world's land mass is underwater?"
Ever seen Waterworld? good movie ^^


@Umbar - If you're talking about metals and such: consider that asteroids have thousands of tons of resources and pass not too far away from our planet. Specially designed space-thingies would be not too expensive compared to the price of the material that can be sold on earth.
If you're talking about food - Um... We need to invent the Stargates yet ^^


14:10:47 Dec 27th 07 - Sir Santa The Elite:

I havent read all of this, no time so Im not sure if this has already been said.
I believe in alienlifeforms because many people make a mistake in the "evidence" against them.

Evidence for no life on other planets:

It is by an amazing event that our planet was made. you must consider what makes life possible. the ozone, the situation in regard to the sun, and many other things. Jupiter keeps large meteors away from us, as meteors that may hit us are pulled by jupiters gravity to it instead of to us. Also, we have just the right amount of disaters. this may sound strange, but it is true. for without disasters, like the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs, then nothing would ever change, we would not evolve. if it wasnt for the disaster that wiped out the dinosauers, our lives would be very differeny today. this is the basic thing, you get hwtai mean, the conditions are sso amazing, that it is almost impossible for it to be repeated


Now, why do we think that alian lifeforms need the same things, air, food, water, as life on earth? They grew up somewhere else, evlved totally different and could be needing no air, food and water to live but magnesiumoxide,rock and water is deadly to them, like fire to us. This is just an example of course but I think its clear what I mean. We think they would almost be the same like life on earth, but if theres life out there, they are probably like no one imagined. In need of other things and all. Maybe its just one big blubber without limps, however, when you think fo alians, 99% of us thinks of limps. We just shouldnt assume that theyre like us. And when you do that, what evidence against them remains?


14:13:37 Dec 27th 07 - Mr. Umbar:

Specially designed space-thingies would be not too expensive compared to the price of the material that can be sold on earth.

Offcourse they will not be expensive compared to the product, but the product will be expensive as hell, because it needs to cover the transport price! Nobody on earth could afford that....


14:29:51 Dec 27th 07 - Mr. Kassius The Kookie Bandit:

well i think 100%of lifeforms need water on earth, the situation goes both ways, assumptions can be made, just because its alien it doesnt mean that it needs to be much different from our earths species, although the opposite is more likely but im sure bout the water thing


15:43:26 Dec 27th 07 - Mr. Killer:

Huh... we'll never get a planet necessary for when Earth is destroyed. They're only a couple of thousand light years away, the closest ones apart from the ones circling the star, the Sun. We'll never get close to the speed of light, maybe about 1/1,000,000 of it...


15:59:38 Dec 27th 07 - Mr. Oldmanschild:

did you guys read about the newly found planet around the star Gliese 581? its  20.5 lightyears away, with a promising temperature(between 0-40C) and distance to its star, all that is needed is water, or some fluid with the same temperating capacity as water(i dont remember if that was seen), promising eh?



17:03:33 Dec 27th 07 - Mr. Umbar:

go start packing your luggages.....  


17:19:21 Dec 27th 07 - Sir Iwasfrozen VI:

Huh... we'll never get a planet necessary for when Earth is destroyed. They're only a couple of thousand light years away, the closest ones apart from the ones circling the star, the Sun. We'll never get close to the speed of light, maybe about 1/1,000,000 of it...

What about Mars, it has potential, all it needs is to be heated up, And if we humans know anything it's how to warm up a planet. ;-)


18:18:42 Dec 27th 07 - Mr. Agent Clamps:

Harvest Resources from another planet !?
Be realistic! Any idea how many the transport will cost!? And so...the price of the product?!

Yeah this is a pretty big point. We're better off digging down to the core of the earth (moneywise) before trying to harvest some comet =p

the newly found planet around the star Gliese 581? its  20.5 lightyears away

I'm totally waving the "I hope there's life on other planets; that'd be way koo" flag, but I don't see how we can ever confirm it even on this comparatively close planet.

What about Mars, it has potential, all it needs is to be heated up, And if we humans know anything it's how to warm up a planet. ;-)

Although hilarious, I'm not so sure this would work like that. We don't even know for sure that we're responsible for raising our own planet's temperature, so we likely can't "fix" a planet for us. If we could it would cost so much and need so many supplies from earth that it just can't happen.


18:20:59 Dec 27th 07 - Mr. Willem II:


i say its true!!!!!! you know why? those cows can't be from this world! its... its... its... IMPOSSIBLE!!! really true;$  so they came with a huge grassy meteor filled with dairy farms and little green sheep milking the cows, if you say its not true.. i got the evidence! look out my window, you see a big green field with cows. the sheep are in another field then the cows cause if they'd be in the same field.. well, then we wouldn't get any milk cause its in there nature! SHEEP MILK COWS!


18:48:31 Dec 27th 07 - Mr. Killer:

Errrrr... I think I'll ignore that last post... Mars is very cold, it would be quite difficult to heat it up at any degree. As for other planets... Venus... far too many toxic gases in the atmosphere, and then the others ones are cold, I think all of them are colder than Mars after Earth and Venus... not sure... suppose I could look it up somewhere. Also, on Jupiter we'd probably be flattenned.


20:30:54 Dec 27th 07 - Sir Iwasfrozen VI:

Although hilarious, I'm not so sure this would work like that. We don't even know for sure that we're responsible for raising our own planet's temperature, so we likely can't "fix" a planet for us. If we could it would cost so much and need so many supplies from earth that it just can't happen.

Mars has two polar caps made largly of ice, by simply pumping CO2 into the atmosphere, we could heat up Mars, melt the ice, and make it sutible for farming.


21:17:48 Dec 27th 07 - Duke Luta Mor:

"Harvest Resources from another planet !?
Be realistic! Any idea how many the transport will cost!? And so...the price of the product?!"

Well, I didn't exactly mean from space to earth, I meant from space to space colony/orbital manufacturing center.

"and it's not that i'm agianst science or so...
In mine opinion you only better can invest in other science..."

Well you can go buy math software and science textbooks or take extra classes with your extra money and get that little boost in your eduction, but in the big scheme you have to save up for college, won't you?


00:41:14 Dec 28th 07 - Mr. Oldmanschild:

Although hilarious, I'm not so sure this would work like that. We don't even know for sure that we're responsible for raising our own planet's temperature, so we likely can't "fix" a planet for us. If we could it would cost so much and need so many supplies from earth that it just can't happen.

well, its not a natural state having ice at our polar caps, so eventually, it would have melted, like it has hundreds of times before, and when the rainforests burn (when earth medtemp rise 2dgrees, (est in 10-50 years)) hopefully, we will plant something new there and save whatever can be saved in indoor plantations.

we have trees(argan tree in sahara, mountain birch etc) that can survive extreme temperatures on this planet, with a slight genetic modification(in the trees) im sure we can find some kind of temperated belts on our closest planets where they could grow, or i hope atleast :D then therese the problem with air.. the moon has inssuficcent gravity to hold air, even if we could create it there. so this suggests mars..


14:58:06 Dec 28th 07 - Sir Santa The Elite:

I think that when mankind is ready to colonise other worlds, science will be far enough to beable to heat mars up. Theres the traditional way of making HUGE fire there, we just need something to burn. The CO2 from that fire will make holes in the Mars atmosphere and Mars will heat up even more. Probably enough to make the water melt :)

We need, in any case, a second place for mankind to live, we wont be able to stay here forever.

Mr. Killer

Report


12/27/2007 3:43:26 PM
Huh... we'll never get a planet necessary for when Earth is destroyed. They're only a couple of thousand light years away, the closest ones apart from the ones circling the star, the Sun. We'll never get close to the speed of light, maybe about 1/1,000,000 of it...
Speed of light is 300,000 m/s thus 1080000km/h, devided by 1 million that makes 1.08 km/h, Im sure we can get that speed =P


15:10:45 Dec 28th 07 - Mr. Kassius The Kookie Bandit:

i think he meant WITHIN 1/1000000th of it as its impossible to reach the speed of light, like humankind trying to reach absolute zero artificially


15:43:35 Dec 28th 07 - Mr. Killer:

No, I was exaggerating a bit, that's all.


17:43:45 Dec 28th 07 - Mr. Umbar:

A bit?



17:50:38 Dec 28th 07 - Mr. Umbar:

Well, I didn't exactly mean from space to earth, I meant from space to space colony/orbital manufacturing center.

And what do you want to do with all that *beep* in those colony's? :S
What use will it be to the earth and the people? And why in hell build those colony's? It's only expensive.....and no use...


20:45:04 Dec 28th 07 - Sir Iwasfrozen VI:

To futher the human race.

Where would we be now if the British/French/Portugese/Spanish decided not to explore the "new world" or if the British didn't send all their criminals to Austrailia.

The human race benifites from exploring.


21:59:52 Dec 28th 07 - Mr. Odysseus:

You newbs.  Mar's atmosphere is composed of 95% CO2 already:
http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/M/Marsatmos.html

I think one of the bigger problems with Mars is that because it doesn't have as much mass as the Earth, it has less propensity for holding a denser atmosphere to it.  It has less gravity, and also lacks the Earth's very-strong magnetic field that protects us from solar radiation.  The Earth is very specialized indeed.  I believe only a couple of the very biggest planets have stronger magnetic fields than our planet.

Otherwise, it is the most inhabitable planet we have, and I think it does hold the greatest chance for life :).  Perhaps if we nudged its orbit closer to Earth's it could work better.


22:31:13 Dec 28th 07 - Mr. Kassius The Kookie Bandit:

answer to original q = most likely yes

wether or not WE could find plants that the human race could inhabit are probably next to nil so all this colony stuff is tosh in my expertly expert opinion


00:19:55 Dec 29th 07 - Mr. Umbar:

To futher the human race.

Where would we be now if the British/French/Portugese/Spanish decided not to explore the "new world" or if the British didn't send all their criminals to Austrailia.

The human race benifites from exploring.


-----

Exploring the world....no other planets....

And still...why build colony's? What we gain from them? a? From the Colonies on the new world we gained recourses....but these colonies?As i already said the money needed for the transport form these colonies to the earth is huge....

Only supplying the colonies now and than would cost huge amounts of money....
And building them....
It would be a huge mega project....with will cost really very very much of money....
And what is the use of it? Nothing.....
No, all it will be is propaganda for the country that build it, etc. Because the world is full of *beep*s like you who will start dancing up and down from the excitement from it and worship the makers.....

09:08:02 Dec 29th 07 - Mr. Agent Clamps:

Mars has two polar caps made largly of ice, by simply pumping CO2 into the atmosphere, we could heat up Mars, melt the ice, and make it sutible for farming.

Keeping in mind what Odysseus said as well, know that I am saying it is not simple to pump that kind of tonage of co2. It would take probbaly millions of tons of the stuff... mars is much larger than our planet. About what Odysseus said though, if one COULD get all the co2 up there somehow wouldn't it just increase the density of co2 and work the same way? I dunno, but one thing I know is that we would also need to put up millions of tons of oxygen...


10:50:11 Dec 29th 07 - Mr. Robert II:

I disagree with mars being the best place to live besides earth in our solar system; check this:

Europa
At just over 3000 kilometers in diameter, Europa is slightly smaller than Earth's Moon and is the sixth largest moon in the Solar System. It is primarily composed of silicate rock and likely has an iron core. It has a very tenuous oxygen atmosphere. Its surface is composed of ice and is one of the smoothest in the Solar System


11:20:59 Dec 29th 07 - Mr. Kassius The Kookie Bandit:

clamps, remember that the most part of the air we breath is nitrogen not oxygoen


[Top]  Pages:   1 2 (next)

Login
Username: Don't have an account - Sign up!
Password: Forgot your password - Retrive it!

My bookmarksOld forum design


- close -
  Copyright © 1999-2018 Visual Utopia. All rights reserved. Page loaded in 0.03 seconds. Server time: 12:12:39 PM