Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / New Scoring

New Scoring
22:42:55 Sep 4th 09 - Mr. Brett The Hitmanhart:

New scoring...no Hanky not that kind either

(Total enemy DP killed * Total OP left at era end) / (Total Land / Science Lvls)

Best of both worlds.


22:45:15 Sep 4th 09 - Mr. Brett The Hitmanhart:

Possible also:
Bonus - 1 man KD +10%
2-5 man KD +7%
5-9 man KD +4%
10 -14 man KD +2%
15+ 0%

Total added to above end era totals


22:51:38 Sep 4th 09 - Lord Wraith The Bloody:

But with the bonus, you'd just have groups of 3 man Kds working together as one kd. just a thought...
Though this should be in Suggestions, I like it :)
BUT... would make Fant pointless..


22:52:19 Sep 4th 09 - Endless Happy Meals:

how does that make it the best of both?
It won't prevent troop spamming or the mad rush to plant a city or troops on the Fant map

*just trying to figure out your suggested scoring method*
can I get a body slam with that :)


22:53:26 Sep 4th 09 - Dark Prince Stirlin:

just scrap scoring


22:54:09 Sep 4th 09 - Lord Wraith The Bloody:

His method means you have to kill troops to actually get any points ;) And the stronger troops you kill, mean a higher score.


22:56:30 Sep 4th 09 - Mr. Brett The Hitmanhart:

I cant post in suggestions unfortunatly :( dunno why but ....

But with the bonus, you'd just have groups of 3 man Kds working together as one kd. just a thought... ( I just eliminated excessive blockers )

how does that make it the best of both? ( The calculation gives score in the first part to the war aspect of the game, and score in the second aspect based on developing income.... you require a combination of both to rank)


23:02:08 Sep 4th 09 - Lord Wraith The Bloody:

Done for you Brett :)


23:13:34 Sep 4th 09 - Endless Happy Meals:

ok, make me do the math :p

I was trying to figure out the
Total enemy DP killed times Total OP left at era end
divided by
Total Land divided by Science Lvls


01:16:44 Sep 5th 09 - Sir Santa:

If you devide by (Total land/ Science Lvl's) then yes, more science is good for your score. However, more land, is not. The higher your land count, the bigger the number you eventually devide by. So I think the second part should be ((1/Total Land)*(1/Sciences)) or something like that.


01:37:04 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Brett The Hitmanhart:

No. Because someone with loads of land and lots of science is a farmer.

Put my calculations into a working formulae using stats of a typical farmer, stats of an all out fighter and that of a player who balances it, you will see that the player that balances between warring and earning income comes out on top, which should be the eventual goal of the game.
The best of all VU disciplines comes out on top.

The bonus thing is also to break down some of the monstrous KD's thus allowing smaller kd's to stand as much a chance as the next.


01:54:29 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Stu:

The scoring is completly BS!!

Why hasnt the VU crew fixed this yet  ? ? Stop suggesting ideas for new scoring and get your friends/kd mates to post in here and send emails to admins to do SOMETHING/ANYTHING to the scoring system.

SCIENCE LEVELS !?!? COME ON !?!? AMOUNTS OF TROOPS INSTEAD OF ACTUAL OP/DP ? ?

This is a big blow to people who take citys and go to war. Why the hell would we train 38 sciences, theres no logical point there. Stick to mining/tree's, mining/food, if you have to theres no point in putting sciences levels across the board other than scoring high.


02:09:36 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Brett The Hitmanhart:

Using enemy DP killed is accurate, as it factors in things like walls and GTS
You end score OP is acurate because it prevents spamming low level troops for score.

Science levels are important in the equations, because they reflect an element of income part of the game, as well as the sciences contribution to strengthening armies. Using this calculation, too low a number of sicences, and its likely you wont make it to end of era to get score. Too many sciences and your land levels pay the penalty, thus cancelling the farm to win element of the game.

It balances both fundemental elements.


02:15:35 Sep 5th 09 - Endless Happy Meals:

can you read the suggestions forum or are you just ignoring me? :p

Endless Happy Meals



15:53:06 Sep 4th 09
I would amend this slightly, defensive players shouldn't be penalized for playing that role in the KD, so a baseline of 1 x OP left at era end *IF*  DP killed = 0 troops

(0 x anything = 0)
Endless Happy Meals



16:08:52 Sep 4th 09
also baseline of 1 IF land = 0
Endless Happy Meals



16:26:51 Sep 4th 09
btw, if you were wanting to give bonuses what about for
Battles won or Cities captured



02:21:59 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Brett The Hitmanhart:

I cant post in suggestions. Im locked out of it :(

The bonus idea is to encourage smaller KD's rather than just getting as many people together as possible to ensure "victory by sheer weight in numbers". Arguably, smaller kd's being overun by KD's 20 times their size are not a fun era. So if you going to join a 40 man Kd, you know you will loose that end era bonus.

Its up to the player themself to clear those zero baseline. If you are not going to make a single attempt to kill a troop, or gain 1 science level or whatever the zero factor is, you are not participating therefore not contributing to the game as a whole.


02:23:33 Sep 5th 09 - Swedish chef Brashen:

I totally agree that the current scoring is bogus.

But this > Mr. Brett The Hitmanhart 01:37:04 Sep 5th 09 No. Because someone with loads of land and lots of science is a farmer.

is not correct.

Swedish chef Brashen of Revelation
Total land: 1.1 MillionBattles won: 47Cities captured: 41
Total killed: 811387Science lvls: 30Total troops: 471305
F: 0%M: 90%Z: 8%S: 0%N: 0%V: 0%A: 0%T: 0%M: 0%

I built 92190 buildings this era (40k were mtīs and gtīs ) the rest I conquered and I am placed on 94th place even though im biggest in the game by a margin of 350k land.

Im not that happy


02:25:57 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Brett The Hitmanhart:

You have land yes and science yes...but you also have a huge DP kill which would factor you as being a better winner.
Its a combination theory. You need to do both....not just fight or farm.


02:29:29 Sep 5th 09 - Endless Happy Meals:

kk, thanks for clarifying the zero factor :) not sure that I agree 100% with the not contributing to the game as a whole and I don't think everybody will ever agree on how to score the game but I like your ideas  on the scoring enough to still give it a thumbs up/worth a shot at implementing.


02:42:52 Sep 5th 09 - Swedish chef Brashen:

yea I agree with the ideas I just thought that comment sounded like I would been a farmer.

But a era with a person who himself said he was inactive and did not take part in a single battle just proves how wrong the scoring is.


03:47:09 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Palpatine:

how about-

congratulations to our era winning categories;

most land

most battles  won

most cities captured

most troops(or split into most dp and most op)

then era winner and naming rights is one of these who scored in more than one category. doesnt seem too hard to implement and it would be likely a fighter over a famer etc would win it(though a farmer could possibly still win it)


03:52:04 Sep 5th 09 - Sir Big Mac Attack:

Dark Prince Stirlin


Report


16:53:26 Sep 4th 09 just scrap scoring


+1

I think individual scores are a joke as it should be a team game, so I'm all with ya for scrapping scoring all together ^_^


04:28:16 Sep 5th 09 - Duchess Sexxy Minx:

what happens when a solo player tops the hoh O.o


13:12:52 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Brett The Hitmanhart:

If you can reach the top solo, and hold the rest of the kd's off that want your position, the more deserving.
I have always been a fan of the kd working as a unit, and to touch on Stirlins point in his suggestions thread, as well as bring up an old suggestion. A single player does not win the game..its the efforts of the kd, and the era award should be passed to the kd..... if you want to name it after something, then name it after the winning KD.
Who knows....one day we may have a "Crazy Era" or an Era of HIV....god forbid.


14:07:31 Sep 5th 09 - Duchess Sexxy Minx:

or era of bring back my money bitch.... :/


14:44:05 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Killer Knight:

(Total enemy DP killed * Total OP left at era end) / (Total Land / Science Lvls)

Surely this would help farmers. Just farm all era, get as many science levels as you can, spam troops into a blocker. Then just before era end, land drop.

Having 1 land is better than having 1mil land.

Whoever wars and takes a bunch of enemy land will have to raze it or a player who hasnt fought quite as much can land drop and beat them.

Lets say a person kills 20mil DP in an era, ends the era with 6mil OP, has 1mil land and 25 science levels.

He will have 120k billion/ (1mil/25)

120k billion/ 40k

He scores 3 billion.

Now lets say another person only kills 1mil DP, he ends the era with 3mil OP, he land drops to 1 land and has 30 science levels.

3k billion/(1/30)

He finishes with 90k billion points.

You need a new formula that cant be abused by land dropping.

Also, what happens if you have 0 sci levels?

Total land divided by 0


15:38:05 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Dread:

where did u get that ridiculous formula???
and i assume the *'s dont mean multiply and /'s divide??
and brashen the score the like mostly defined bye the world.
if you atleast moved your armies into fantasia near end of era you probably would be top 10 or so assume they are mostly AM's


15:47:15 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Brett The Hitmanhart:

recalculate it again logically and you will see the numbers and formulae stacks up.

The higher the number of sciences you divide by, the lesser the outcome....not the other way around Killer.

If you land drop, the calculation punishes you. If you get too few sciences, you will most likely not survive week 2. Get no sciences i doubt you will survive OOP.


15:48:41 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Roxbury:

Last era was exactly the same, and the era before that. zeta said he was gonna fix the scoring but did nothing. dont get ur hopes up guys.


16:18:01 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Brett The Hitmanhart:

Farmer will typically have large land, lots of science, low kills and high army count, even if its cavers or defencive troops.
100k killed
500k OP
Total = 50000000000

Total Land: 4000000
Total Sci: 35
Total: 114285.714

Total Score = 437,500

Fighter will usually have high kills, lower troop numbers due to cost of war, lack of improvement in economy due to constant training and war costs, a lower number of end era troops because of casualties and lack of economic resources to increase army size.

1m killed
300k OP
Total = 300000000000

Total Land: 1800000
Total Sci: 15
Total: 120000

Total Score = 2,500,000


Balanced Player will have a reasonable kill ratio, a good level of troop numbers, both offensive and defensive, a stable economy and science levels which justify his needs for economy and strength

600k killed
700k OP
Total = 420000000000

Total Land: 2200000
Total Sci: 20
Total: 110000

Total Score = 3,818,181


16:33:09 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Killer Knight:

Yes, but land drop is still abusable.

Using your numbers

 

100k killed
500k OP
Total = 50000000000

Total Land: 1
Total Sci: 35
Total: 1/35

50000000000 / (a fraction, means multiplied by the reciprocal)..divide by 1/35, means times 35.

Land dropping puts their score at
Total Score = 1.75k billion

 

Fighter
1m killed
300k OP
Total = 300000000000

Total Land: 1
Total Sci: 15
Total: 1/15

Total Score = 450bil points

Balanced Player


600k killed
700k OP
Total = 420000000000

Total Land: 1
Total Sci: 20
Total: 1/20

Total Score = 8.4k billion

 

If your formula is gonna divide by land size, then land drop is always going to boost the score massively. If your going to have land size in the formula, it has to be an adding or multiplying factor, a dividing factor makes 1 land the optimal size.


16:47:37 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Brett The Hitmanhart:

its not dividing by landsize...its dividing by sciences


16:59:32 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Brett The Hitmanhart:


17:05:14 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Killer Knight:

my suggestion would be

((Total DP killed*Total OP at era end)+Total Land)/(# of science levels*1000)

I would use you numbers to prove how its better, but your giving so much land to everyone, 4mil land for farmers when the best land score was 1.1mil this era, and baely any kills or OP at era end. I played on Arma and probably killed/ROFed about 5mil DP, and had rebirth not killed it, I would have had 5mil OP at era end. Im sure a bunch of members in FATE would have had atleast that OP at era end and probably much more DP kills.

Farmer

250k killed
3mil OP
Total = 7.5k billion

Total Land: 2500000
Total Sci: 35

Total Score =  214,285,785


Fighter


5m killed
5m OP
Total = 25k billion

Total Land: 800000
Total Sci: 15


Total Score = 1,666,666,720


Balanced Player 

3m killed
3m OP
Total = 9k billion

Total Land: 1.5mil
Total Sci: 20
Total Score = 450mil.

 

Not the best formula on second thoughts. Land is basically irrelevant, science levels have a reasonable reduction effect on scores.

The person who attacks most and builds the biggest OP will win.

But if your gonna base it on that, why even have anything in the formula other than that.

DP kills * OP at era end

Simple formula, person who balances killing with amassing a big army will win.

If you stack troops but dont kill anyone you wont win, if you kill a bunch of people but waste all your troops, you wont win.

 


17:06:35 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Killer Knight:

Well your original post said

(Total enemy DP killed * Total OP left at era end) / (Total Land / Science Lvls)

Thereby dividing by land....but if its multiply, then it would work.


17:37:39 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Killer Knight:

A better formula would be

((OP at era end * DP killed during era) + (Total Land* 500) + (Science Levels * 5mil)) / 1million

The divide by 1 million is just to stop people having such high scores, thousands of billions is just too high.

Most people will kill atleast 1mil DP during the era and have atleast 1mil OP at era end.

Meaning they have 1billion points from that alone. No point to punish them for their land size or science levels.

Sure farmers will have higher land and higher science levels than fighters, but an all around player the one deserving of an era win will have all 3.

No player will exceed 5mil land and 40 science levels....meaning that max they get from land would be 2.5 billion points and 200mil from sciences.

Whereas fighting is worth billions to anyone who even does bit part fighting , so why can the formula not add all of these together.

Lets say a kingdom has a farmer, a bit part fighter and a guy who is the active fighter.

The farmer kills 500k DP, has 5mil OP, he has 2.5mil land and 40 science levels.

The bit part fighter kills 2mil, has 4mil OP, has 1.5mil land and 30 science levels.

The active guy kills 5mil, has 5mil OP, has 1mil land and 25 science levels.

Era end scores would be

Farmer - 3,750,200

Bit Part - 8,750,150

Active Fighter - 25,500,125

So the farmer who does nothing will have a poor score, the guy who helps out  but also farms a bit due to inactivity will be ranked better than the farmers, but the active fighter who builds a big army and kills alot of the enemies will be clearly ahead of the others.

Im wondering whether the land should only count on fantasia, whoever lands there will have to NAP alot of people, or we could just make nobody land on fantasia and have a mad rush for everyone to try and take control of the map.

It might reduce the number of relations by the kingdom on Fantasia.

If you dont make it only count on fantasia, then people will not bother to go there.


17:44:23 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Billious:

I like your examples Killer Knight.

Out of idle curiosity, how would the most recent winner have fared using your system? As compared to someone like Bogdan, who killed a captured just a bit.


17:51:29 Sep 5th 09 - Mr. Brett The Hitmanhart:

1k killed
2400000k OP
Total = 2400000000

Total Land: 387082
Total Sci: 38
Total: 10186.36

Total Score = 235,609




672152 killed
478773 OP
Total = 321,808,229,496

Total Land: 467974
Total Sci: 15
Total: 31198

Total Score = 10,315,027



471305 killed
811387 OP
Total = 382410750035

Total Land: 1100000
Total Sci: 25
Total: 44000

Total Score = 10,429,385.98


That is my formula using 3 players. The first farmed, the second being an out and out fighter constantly listed on most fearsome list, the third being a player I feel had the most balanced era. For numbers sake, I have kept OP and DP at one, because the scores dont state final OP power or DP killed power.


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