Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / Sweden violated torture treaty

Sweden violated torture treaty
19:33:58 Nov 8th 06 - Mr. Pilkington:

We already knew this caus of that documentary, now the UN says it aswell. Since our former forgein minister is already dead, our former prime minister Göran Person should be held responsible and get a bullet in the neck. Considering whats happening on Guantanamo, they should know better then to send arabs to Americans. But of course they knew about it and the reason why they dont mind sending people to torutre is because they are spineless *beep*s~_~.

Even berlusconi was better, he arrested CIA agents when they tried to arrest italians. He may be a *beep* but he was not spineless like us swedes :)

1, 2 and 3.

21:07:19 Nov 8th 06 - Lord Efrandor:

Well, us Swedes will always be pineless, that's how it is, and that's how it will be, bad or good, decide for yourself...

Edit:       :P

(Edited by Lord Efrandor 11/8/2006 9:07:32 PM)

22:06:43 Nov 8th 06 - Mr. Argyle:

Thats old *beep*!

07:35:28 Nov 9th 06 - Mr. Civ:

Historically we've done quite a load of spiny things, I think it was the country with most labour conflicts in Europe during the seventies. We had tons of rebellions in the middle ages and the swedish bourguoise revoluion in the 1860-ies was done under massive threat of violence. But ofc, nowadays you see a lot of spinelessness around, just take how they handled that tsunami thing...

19:40:16 Nov 9th 06 - Mr. Pilkington:

Maybe I shouldnt ask for a radicalization of the politics, in italy they have like 3 communist parties in the parliament on the left, wich is great. On the other hand, they also have facists in the right wing coalition wich isnt good.

Maybe we got it to good in sweden nowdays to be really radical. But then, it was probbably better in sweden in the seventies and that was why people could think about stuff :) Or it may have been a reaction to the right wing imperialism of america. Idk, im to stupid to make something out of it  ~

04:46:03 Feb 20th 07 - Mr. Brashen:

Hey when did the swedes get so spineless?
I would say the same day we discovered socialism.
Its just our socialist goverments that been spineless.

(Just desided I wanted to post in the oldest thread, and I was lucky it was not about superbowl or enything like that wich I have no ideas of feelings for,)

21:41:33 Feb 20th 07 - Mr. Ghouma:

I suppose ur swedish then Brashen, socialists have hardly been spineless. Social democrats where good 90 years ago, but they seperated themselfs from the socialists when they condemd to the russian revolution, that was the first step to the right they did and the first real sign of being spineless. And after that the social democrats just steped further right and became more spineless for every step they took.

I dont know if the right are spineless, they are *beep*s with typical facist rethoric never the less.

I would like to quote the late björn afzelius, its in swedish though. So il just link the song lyrics.

21:22:49 Feb 21st 07 - Mr. Ghouma:

This seems to be a nice thread where I can air my opinions without anyone really caring so lets continue it.

Today expressen presented evidence that our forginb minister Carl bildt was hired by an american lobby organisation to turn the public to be positive to the iraq war.
So our forgin mannager tried to get european nations to go to war with iraq to benefit companies he had stocks in.  Mussolini is said to have said that the merger of state and capital could be called facism.
In this war 650.000 iraqis have died, so there seem to be a typical right wing lack of respect for life in there aswell. And we all know what kind of catastroph Carl bildt was as a prime minister was, 12% inflation in 1994 etc.

Well since the working and middle class voted for the moderats I suppose they deserve what they got.

Edit: 650k when they did the survey some time ago, maybe 700-800k dead now.

(Edited by Mr. Ghouma 2/21/2007 9:23:49 PM)

16:28:59 Feb 22nd 07 - Mr. Brashen:

Dunno enything about the Iraq war lobbying yet so I wont comment on that atm.
And im totally against the Iraq war as I am to almost everything Bush and his Crew is playing at.

But if you blame the inflation 94 on Bild and the moderats its just proves how ignorant you are about this.

The whole world suffered at that time.
And what made Sweden so weak was a) We are a small tiny nation and when standing alone we dont have eny chance at all to withstand the world economy´s improvements.
and b) We had huge depts that were not known to either the puplic or the moderats and they all were from the Palme goverment since they got elected due to our wellfare they refused to let the nation know that our economy was not as good as we thought, and too ceep the public in the dark they borrowed huge amount of money to ceep the goverment runned sections going.

Do you think it was because the Moderats took over the goverment runned companys started loosing money?.
Tss forget about it they been loosing silly amounts of money for decades when the moderats took over thats why they´started selling them out.

20:35:45 Feb 22nd 07 - Mr. Ghouma:

And I suppose it was because of the social democrats that Bildt even said himself his econmonic policys was failed?

And lets talk about the privatisation done now. The moderats are selling out sweden, they have no respect whatsoever for the nation or the people living here. They use what we own together to benefit the already rich, they say that the money from the privized companys are to pay of some of the national debt but the winnings from the companys is what pays the debt today, should we pay it with higher taxes once the state owned companies are gone?

What will be the prize to nationalise thoose companies again? No, the right wingers are gonna do more damage in 4 years then the social democrats can mannage to do in 40 years. And I sincerly think the social democrats are built up of *beep*s and *beep*s in the core.

Well the bourgeois always want the state to be weakend by loans, nothign new just old capitalist politics to benefit the rich. We have a goverment who refuse to critize USA, how will we look on that 50 years in the future? The moderats are even in the same organisation as the GOP.

Edit: please note I dont blame him for it, Im just saying he was a really bad prime minister back then and I cant for my life understand how people take his arrogance for anything else then upperclass manners.

(Edited by Mr. Ghouma 2/22/2007 8:39:39 PM)

21:04:18 Feb 22nd 07 - Mr. Devi:

In this war 650.000 iraqis have died,

650k when they did the survey some time ago, maybe 700-800k dead now.

Ghouma man, at least know what the hell your talking about before you go spouting crap you know nothing about.

(Edited by Mr. Devi 2/22/2007 9:04:47 PM)

22:04:11 Feb 22nd 07 - Mr. Ghouma:

Devi man, please look it up before listening to what bush says about a survey okey?

That site u linked me to is the ammount of bodies reported to that organisation.

The survey who counted it to 650k is accepted as the most trustworthy survey by the international scientist comunity.

01:28:11 Feb 23rd 07 - Mr. Devi:

Your high dude, show me one link to this 650k Iraqis dead. The site I linked you to is counting all by way of news reports, not what is reported to them.

We acknowledge that many parties to this conflict will have an interest in manipulating casualty figures for political ends. There is no such thing (and will probably never be such a thing) as an "wholly accurate" figure, which could accepted as historical truth by all parties. This is why we will always publish a minimum and a maximum for each reported incident. Some sources may wish to over-report casualties. Others may wish to under-report them. Our methodology is not biased towards "propaganda" from any particular protagonist in the conflict. We will faithfully reflect the full range of reported deaths in our sources. These sources, which are predominantly Western (including long established press agencies such as Reuters and Associated Press) are unlikely to suppress conservative estimates which can act as a corrective to inflated claims. We rely on the combined, and self-correcting, professionalism of the world's press to deliver meaningful maxima and minima for our count.

I wanna see the link you post and what they use to gather there info. They must have some guy on the street counting bodies one at a time with a pencil and a notepad. Its pretty clear he cant count either.

I dont know why you slammed that site as having anything to do with Bush at all, since he has 0 to do with it.

You just another misinformed hater who would rather listen to mindless dribble from other haters, rather than use your brain and have to look into anything yourself.

So according to your post this website is off by about 600k people, I guess all the world must have missed those bombings, or never felt the need to report them.

(Edited by Mr. Devi 2/23/2007 1:29:54 AM)

08:02:19 Feb 23rd 07 - Mr. Ghouma:

I never linked the iraq body count with bush(i) its an english survey.

Again it just says reported, not the number of dead. Acording to swedish television the survey done by Johns Hopkins University's Bloomberg School of Public Health is said to be the MOST acurate by the international scientist comunity.  As the Iraq body count just mentions REPORTED deaths they can hardly be compared with each other.

And since you are the expert, I suppose you know alot of iraqis who have told you what it is like in Iraq, is that the looking in you have done or is it just visited that webpage?

I also suppose you care to enlighten me what scientific expert community say that there is ~60k dead, the one on Bob Jones univeristy?

(Edited by Mr. Ghouma 2/23/2007 8:04:49 AM)

11:33:45 Feb 23rd 07 - Mr. Devi:

Your site for those numbers and I quote from there site.

"As many as 654,965 more Iraqis may have died since hostilities began in Iraq in March 2003 than would have been expected under pre-war conditions, according to a survey conducted by researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Al Mustansiriya University in Baghdad.

The estimates were derived from a nationwide household survey of 1,849 households throughout Iraq conducted between May and July 2006."

Keep baising your arguement on worthless bull*beep* and you will never win one.

11:42:59 Feb 23rd 07 - Mr. Morgan:

The talk of the numbers of dead is irrelevant. Nobody cares since Iraq is far away from "civilization". In case you did not notice there is a diffrence of people and people. An iraqi family that looses a member of its family gets 1000 dollars and an american soldiers family gets 300.000 dollars(might have been 200.000 not 100% sure, also this is casualties due to the iraqi war).

Diffrent peoples lives are valued diffrently. Nobody cares about iraqis dying since its so far away. 1 death is a tradegy 1 million deaths is statistics.

(Notice this is not my personal opinion but the general opinion of the public and our goverments)

(Edited by Mr. Morgan 2/23/2007 11:43:41 AM)

20:23:51 Feb 23rd 07 - Mr. Ghouma:

Im sorry Devi, ur only saying your OPINION, I said that the internatuional scientist community thinsk that is the MOST likly SURVEY be it wrong, its still more accurate then the other ones. What experts do you have to support your side? Do tell me caus I am intrigued to know. Franly you seem like an inhuman *beep* to me.

 The Iraqis I know have told me how it is down there, and they say its chaos. My friends cousin was just out in his garden and there was a truck with terrorists going by shooting him in the head without any reason. There is a huge increase in racism, Sunnis are killed in Shia negihbourhoods and vice versa. Before the invasion there was no hatred between the religous groups. Divde and conquer eh?

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