Just because I have no belief in your all powerful gods, or the celebration of the birth of a dillusional charater who thought he was son of man...doesnt mean i dont subscribe to the philosophies of religion... ie: forgivenss, peace, respect for our fellow man. Those arent unique to any religion, nor do you need to be religious to want these things. What I hate about religion is the "if you dont do it, you will suffer"...how about just doing something good and feeling good about doing it. How about, next Sunday, instead of wasting your time sitting listening to some crap story from a book that is as credible as the Lord of the rings, why not go out and help the poor....in the name of humanity and not some god!
Kathandarion, I don't really think you understand the context of what I was saying. "Blessed are the children" refers to skepticism, and how young people see the world with wonder whereas that wonder has dissipated or is absent in adults. Also with "blessed are those have believe and have not seen." I didn't mean the phrase literally at all, you "donut."
I celebrate Christmas because irregardless of its origin, the day has meaning to myself and to society. Even if I don't believe in the Jesus (I actually do think Jesus did exist, but not God incarnate), the message of the Christmas story is still something I find worth celebrating. Which is actually why (as you mistakenly assumed) I'm not opposed to Christianity itself, or believers. Nor am I really supportive of Lord Primate Death, either.
Of course, if you don't ever want to return to this thread, you won't ever learn your own mistakes, or shall try and comprehend something you didn't quite comprehend, or allow yourself to see past stereotypes you give to people. If that's your choice, then fine.
Kath just makes me want to become an atheist...m0r0ns like him make me feel ashamed of my religion. You talk about your religion like you are a genius and all-knowing person when it comes to it, but you are just some little immature kid who is preaching. Don't preach if you don't know it! That is one reason why people hate religion, because 1diots run around saying they are the only way to live or you go to hell. Live a good life is basically all you should have to do and you are fine. I mean comon, would an atheist go to a place of "hell" for living a good life, but just not wanting to believe in a higher being?
God has been around forever, indefinitely. No beginning, and there will be no end to his existence. The universe, quite obviously has to have been around for a very long time, but could not have simply existed forever.
But this is when things get a might tricky, now don't they?
God, being a tangible and completely real entity, existed forever because he's God. It is simply that way. He created the universe, and it is simply so, because the universe must have been created. Without a beginning, it could simply not exist. Therefor, God needed a beginning. If God does not need a beginning, neither does the universe. If either the argument of God does not need a beginning or the argument of the Universe does not need a beginning is wrong, then the other is wrong as well. Why should one exist forever and the other can not? If everything needed to be created, you can not make an exemption from that law.
But it's god, so the rules are different, right? Yeah, so what I just said there was a waste of space and time.
Well, I guess god still exists and he still created the universe. He is God after all, but what started this argument? Our beloved Bible, the written source of proof of God and his acts, that he loves us and cares for us, that he died for our sins, is omniscient, and is pure and good. Unfortunately, the Bible is not as rock solid as God. What is the Bible, I ask? When you get down to the honest facts, it is, in fact, a book. In this book, there are pages, and these pages are swathed in a holy text first recorded thousands of years ago. This, of course, is known by nearly everyone. What most people don't consider is who wrote it. The Bible was written by people who believed in God, each one stout in his or her beliefs until the end. The Bible is not the word of God. The bible is the words of a handful of people who wanted other people to believe in him. You see no entries from a Muslim man or woman whose beliefs differ from the people who wrote it. Tell me, how many people exactly wrote the Bible? A few dozen, maybe forty-and-a-few. That's who you credit your beliefs to, a handful of people who you do not know, can not talk to, and can not question. They exist, no problem there, but were they right?
I have no clue. Neither does anyone else. No one alive can honestly answer that final question. Were these men, alive in a time where flies were born from meat and everything revolved around the sun, correct? Can we believe what they say, invest so much of what has become our lives and society today to forty people? I say no, but it does not matter what I say. In fact, none of my arguments matter at all, because Everyone who is Christian already knows for certain that God is real and that the Bible is correct, even evidence for God's existence! How could that many people be wrong?
Good question. Ask a Jewish person. Ask a Muslim person. Ask how many people thought bloodletting was a cure for all ails. How many people were killed for being witches? How many people today believe in zombies? How many people voted for Hitler?
A lot of people can be wrong if they are misled. It only takes one person.It only took one person. If one person can be wrong. So can ten, so can one hundred, so can a thousand, and so can a million! Numbers, quantities, integers. What are they beyond just that? Numbers.
To end my post, I would like to add one thing. I have supported God in my arguments. You may disagree, but it's there. You can go up and look, see for yourself. You don't see it, though, and you can't find it. It is not there. Just believe I am correct. Have faith. Don't worry, it will be worth it in the end.
The
universe had to be created, why you may ask? Simple, if universe wasn’t created
then it would not exist. Therefore, the universe had to have been created by an
omnipotent force, possessing greater energy/power/knowledge then the universe.
Other wise known as GOD
Then you will quickly say, "God had to be cerate based on your statements
above" Well, not exactly. If we established that the universe was created,
and something cannot appear out of nothing then the universe had to have a
creator. Therefore, something with a greater amount of energy/knowledge/power
in the universe had to have created it. "Then who created the
creator" might you ask. The answer is no one/nothing. If something had
created god, the creator of god would be the true god. If something had created
that god (and indirectly the first one) then that would be the true god. It
goes on forever, infinity. Therefore with no beginning. Thus there must
be a single omnipotent force who created the universe with everything in it
that did not have a beginning.
Thus
there has to be an exception somewhere to the something cannot come out of
nothing, and that force has to have greater power/knowledge/energy then all the
power/knowledge/energy in the universe. Whatever you believe that exception may
be, Zeus, Thor, Allah, The stars, Yahweh,… it has to fit these perimeters. A
being that fits these parameters is popularly referred to as God.
Therefore,
an omnipotent force with greater amount of energy/power and knowledge then the
entire universe combined must exist. A being that fits this classification is
popularly known as god.
Therefore, a single omnipotent force that
created the universe must exist and did not have a beginning.
the problem is, people want to beleive evolution and atheism, because then they can beleive that they won't be punished for their sins. since they want to beleive this, they ignore anything that could possibly be against that theory. That’s not science. Science is looking at everything from more than one point of view! If you look at anything that isn't pro-evolution, you'll realize that evolution has barely any evidence for it, and bunches against it!
:)
Please reveal all of the evidence that you have gathered. Not saying that you haven't done any research, I'm just saying that you would get your point across better if you actually explained what you were talking about. Otherwise you are just...well...saying things with nothing backing it up.
Nevermind, it seems to have been deleted. Delete this one too! =D
**edit** In paragraph 76 of my previous post, I made a mistake. "I have no clue. Neither does anyone else. No one alive can honestly
answer that final question. Were these men, alive in a time where flies
were born from meat and everything revolved around the sun, correct?"
Where I said, "Everything revolved around the sun," Sun should be Earth. I was referring to their belief of the Heliocentric model of the solar system.
@Sorra; regarding entire post.
What you said contradicts itself. If the Universe has to be created and everything needs a beginning, then you also imply that God must have a beginning. However, you disagree and say that something greater than the universe made it, God. If God existed forever and needs to creator, neither does anything else. We can skip the God factor entirely and say the Universe existed forever. Let's put it this way:
Contradictions do not exist in nature. No two fundamental laws collide and disprove another. Your argument is a contradiction, and is therefor totally incorrect. One entity can not be an exception! You can not ignore laws to make something you believe in correct. The Universe needed a beginning, just like everything else, except God?
Concerning the thousands of gods today: Every monotheistic religion clearly states somewhere in its holy text that there is no other god or goddess other than the one pertaining to the religion in question. There is either God or Allah, but not both, for example. No two gods are the same and none can coexist. Hoe do you know you worship the correct and real God? Every holy text contradicts another. You can just pick one and believe in it, but that's all you'll veer have: blind faith.
Finally, I'd like you to address my arguments on the Bible's reliability and factuality as well as explaining the multiple different faiths. Take another swing at the first cause argument (God and Universe).
**edit again** It was paragraph 6, not 76. Edit button refuses to let me use it. New post, not including **edit** at top, starting at paragraph 1, has one minor problem. "If God existed forever and needs to creator, neither..." change "to" to "no."
**new post because the edit button allows only one minute to post changes...**
Random chance in in fact a very good mechanism for evolution. Evolution occurs today, even. Evolution is basically this: organisms were created and change do to mutations, accidental mishaps in the replication of the same species. Some mutations, such as diseases caused by a lack of a chromosome, or an extra one, are extremely detrimental to the ability of a creature to survive. However, on rare occasion, something is born with an advantage-maybe an extra toe or another eye. We've all seen snakes with two heads, so we know it is possible for these changes to occur. When an animal has an advantage, it can survive more easily. If it can survive more easily, it has a greater chance of passing on it's genes and having its children be born with the same benefits. This is called natural selection: The best wins. However, that's not to say just because a creature is better it will definitely survive. An unlucky result of evolution could just have a bad day or not survive infancy due to environmental conditions or due to larger predators eating it. Generally, however, better creatures survive, and they lead to evolution.
To say that random chance is not a valid mechanism of the creation of life and that evolution is bogus is to simply ignore the facts. Any so called "scientist" who agrees that random chance just can't happen has overlooked common examples of evolution today: the Flue virus evolves every time it comes around, requiring you to get re-inoculated against it, because it is technically not the same flu as last time. Humans are an excellent example of evolution. Some of us are white, others black. Some tall, others short. We are as diverse as can be. Africans can generally run faster than any other race. Irish people have red hair. Evolution has had a big effect on people today. As our 'scientist' proves, it most obviously has had an effect on the diversity of our intelligence, as well/
**new post because the edit button allows only one minute to post changes...**
Random chance in in fact a very good mechanism for evolution. Evolution occurs today, even. Evolution is basically this: organisms were created and change do to mutations, accidental mishaps in the replication of the same species. Some mutations, such as diseases caused by a lack of a chromosome, or an extra one, are extremely detrimental to the ability of a creature to survive. However, on rare occasion, something is born with an advantage-maybe an extra toe or another eye. We've all seen snakes with two heads, so we know it is possible for these changes to occur. When an animal has an advantage, it can survive more easily. If it can survive more easily, it has a greater chance of passing on it's genes and having its children be born with the same benefits. This is called natural selection: The best wins. However, that's not to say just because a creature is better it will definitely survive. An unlucky result of evolution could just have a bad day or not survive infancy due to environmental conditions or due to larger predators eating it. Generally, however, better creatures survive, and they lead to evolution.
To say that random chance is not a valid mechanism of the creation of life and that evolution is bogus is to simply ignore the facts. Any so called "scientist" who agrees that random chance just can't happen has overlooked common examples of evolution today: the Flue virus evolves every time it comes around, requiring you to get re-inoculated against it, because it is technically not the same flu as last time. Humans are an excellent example of evolution. Some of us are white, others black. Some tall, others short. We are as diverse as can be. Africans can generally run faster than any other race. Irish people have red hair. Evolution has had a big effect on people today. As our 'scientist' proves, it most obviously has had an effect on the diversity of our intelligence, as well/
Damn double-posting forums. It wasn't a dead thread- I saw it on the "hot topics" thread and was interested.
Someone delete this thread... Its like the everyone hates america threads... it just turns into stubborn people refusing to let each other believe what they want.. Just let it go. Some people dont like god and some people do. Stop trying to convert