Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / Did Jesus Exist ?

i say it was all an illusion. water wasnt really changed to wine, the red sea was never split, but thats just my opinion

"an illusion!!!! ha! maybe they were too drunk to notice, maybe someone mistranslated 'swam' as 'walked' and 'water' as 'dry land'....just maybe.... I THINK NOT!"

You don't think period.

Or maybe they were lying or overexxagerating?  Naaaaah...

"Or maybe they were lying or overexxagerating?  Naaaaah..."

You infidel! How can you say they were lying when it's quite logical that water changed to wine, walking on water and whatever the *beep* else he did is true. I know it's true because I read it in the Bible and the Bible is the word of God so it must be true it says so in the Bible.

I suppose you're one of those conspiracy theorists that don't believe in Santa either? Or the Easter *beep*ing Bunny. How do the presents get under the Christmas tree if there's no Santa? Eh? Eh? Just wait until the Tooth Fairy hears you don't think she exists, you won't get money for your tooth and than you'll be sorry! Right before you are sent to Hell for eternal torture and torment.

I was going to post an argumentive reply in this topic, but then decided it wasn't even worth the waste of time.

hey its my opinion. the only way ur gonna stop me form saying it is if u stick agun to my head and pull the trigger. Besides i am calm, other ppl were putting in all caps so i wanteed to.

Stand on a chair and say that to my face shorty

@at twinkie...........3 things wrong with that statement 1. were playing online so im kinda not sure how you no hes short 2. thats one of the worst insults iv eva herd anmd 3. only hyped up 10-year-old neds/chavs try to start on someone on the internet cus they know that the likelyhood of ever meetin them is bout nil

ah so ur THAT kind of retard

ok now im starting to act like a d*** head. ok ive got my opinion uve got urs lets jsut leave it at that

.

That cartoon was cute and good.

sozza ment ANY religion

If you dont think aliens influenced Religion then read this part of text I found

Ezekiel chapter 1
King James Version
1 Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.
2 In the fifth day of the month, which was the fifth year of king Jehoiachin's captivity,
3 The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him.
4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.
5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.
6 And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings.
7 And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass.
8 And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings.
9 Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.
10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.
11 Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.
12 And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went.
13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.
14 And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.
15 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.
16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.
17 When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went.
18 As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four.
19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.
20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.
23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.
24 And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.
25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.
26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.
28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

Tell me that isn't talking about an alien spacecraft. Dispute this!

I dont know , but isnt that a little disturbing?

You and the cartoon have a good point...

"The trouble is, that many stuborn people ask for proof and then foolishly refuse to accept it when it is presented to them...all one has to do is pay attention on a day to day basis...."

you are saying that nonbelievers are stubborn because you can't proove your point? ... it is not our fault that we can support our claims with FACT, not fairytales ...     it's not our fault that you need reassurance, that you are afraid of the responsibilities it brings of not believing ...  delussional

with that day to day, i suppose you mean you see beuatiful things, and other life, and love and stuff like that?    i see those too, yet, it doesn't make me think it is proof of a god ...  instead, i hope some other *beep* doesn't come along and destroys it ... seeing as it gets destroyed anyway, it means either your god dosn't care, or ... there is no god?

FAITH IS faith.  You choose to believe it or not.  Go ahead and keep on arguing.  You're still not making any difference.  You can CHOOSE to beleive in GOD AND JESUS, or not.  So, who's got a point now?

Dread the atheists here are not at all responding with rationalism. We respond based on EVIDENCE not purely on reason. If we had no evidence at all to know that Jesus is a fraud and gods are fairly tales then maybe we would be reduced to rationalism. The only rationalists in this convo are the believers who have not a single SPECK of evidence to support their conclusions, yet somehow purpose to participate in this conversation. They base their conclusions on premises, like anyone else (ideally) but base their premises on NOTHING...imagination AT BEST. Now who are the rationalists?

 I won't be quoted as saying that all the believers here are doing it though, case in point being Arvious, who has come to the brilliant conclusion that a person can believe whatever they choose to believe. Lucky for him he doesn't even need to bother using his mind at all. Well guess what buddy? You're even wrong about that. A person can choose what they will ACT LIKE they believe, or what they CLAIM to believe but many people have difficulty forcing themselves to believe in fairly tales and thus they grow up and stop lying to themselves and their family and friends. If you think it is so easy to have a true belief in something, then I challenge you to, as of this day and for one week, believe in Santa Clause again. You have been given reasons why he doesn't exist and you understand them, but now just go ahead and believe in him.

If you do this and think about it you'll find that the only way to believe in gods or any other imaginary thing is A: to pretend that there is nowhere in the world any evidence against it and/or B: do not, under any circumstances THINK about said evidence...but if you slip up and find you have accidentally thought about your nonsense for a second you can always resort to emergency plan C: lie to yourself and pretend like it didn't happen, then quickly get to church where you can surround yourself with 100 others who are playing make-belief, and then forget about that whole ugly ordeal in an orgy of ignorant (self) reassurance. 

That brought a tear to my ear.... { Not sarcasm, truth..}

Well spoken  :')

Well Thunder you certainly picked me up, here I thought I'd heard all the religious nonsense that could ever make me laugh and now there is more. Truly in that sense you've brought your Jesus to my heart =p

When a baby is thrown in a tornado and found alive, that is proof

LOL! Oh man that was funny to read. You're right then man I must admit, that thought really did brighten my day, and for that I should thank Jesus I guess.

Because you do not get to tug on Santa's beard does not make him any less real than you or I

What....the....*beep*?! You want to call me juvenile then you come up with some kind of after-school special, sentimental dribble like this? Man this made me laugh pretty hard too. You must have stuffed my heart to full with Jesus on that one. For the record though, yes Santa IS, in fact, less real than you or I. Also, if this debate turns into the discussion of the reality of Santa from this point on I'll be even more disappointed with "believers" than I ever thought I could be.

Christmas is a time that makes people think more about other people FIRST.... I have now become Santa for my own children, just as they will for theirs

Thank you so much for making my point! You have shown me in this "obnoxious, juvenile rant" that Jesus, like Santa, is a magical man that exists only in our minds, serving only to give us "feelings." Look if people wanna say that gods and Jesus are feelings that exist in our minds which inspire or comfort us etc then I'm totally fine with that. That was the crux of what I set out to say, that they are imaginary and serve to make us feel good.

and you know what? That's good enough for me

Fine, I get your stance now. If I understood correctly I gather that you believe that there are imaginary ideas in your mind that make you and your family have happy feelings, and that is real enough for you. Fantastic, but some people are interested in learning the truth about this life we live. Some people want to know if there really is a God, and find evidence other than peoples' *beep*ing "feelings." I understand when people have no interest in wisdom, but I don't have to respect it. I think it's a crying shame when people are happy living in ignorance. I wish I could give the name of the man who quoted it (since you seem to enjoy yourself a good quote), but it went something like "I cannot conceive of a god that would gift us with the faculties of reason and wisdom, and then discourage our use of them", and it is definitely a waste of our powers to end our search for truth at "feelings."

Clamps, you have no point whatsoever.  People just don't lie about that. Anyone who does is a sinner, and God will still love that person...

I'm sure what you meant to say was "Clamps, I don't understand your point." You don't think people lie about that? Fine, then I guess there's no such thing as a cult right? There are no people out there called, say, Scientologists who have essentially a bunch of sci-fi notes from a known con-man and sell them to people for hundreds of thousands of dollars, all to give them "super powers"? Also, I suppose there are no "spirit mediums" who claim to let you talk to your dead family for hundreds of dollars a pop? I suppose there are no people who claim to be psychic or those who claim to be abducted by aliens? I suppose there can't possibly be any such thing as a false prophet either? So Nostradamus was true, and for that matter the nut at your local new-age workshop? You don't think people can lie about matters of faith? Then you're just as nutty as the crackhead who believes in Santa up there. Of course though, all these liars, swindlers, cheaters and false prophets are fine though since God will forgive them? Get a grip, you're the one with no point.

Jesus will forgive that little outburst. At least he would if he existed, I guess you'll just have to take responsibility for that yourself (good luck with that).

Clamp... Basically what you have shown the world...yet again...when you are confronted with reason...reason that makes more sense to you, then you care to let on, that you get angry and rattle off a spew of useless prattle...

I pity your children, should one day they come, if you do not understand the concept of Santa Claus.

I also pity your immortal soul when you realize just how wrong and how silly you really are...

The idea of Santa Claus is a feeling, as you put it...It is quite the point, perhaps you should have been hugged more as a child and dropped less on your head?

God is very much real...and that baby who survived that tornado must have a purpose in God's plan, hence his survival. If you doubt that, perhaps being the non-believer that you are, you should experiment and prove me wrong, when you have children, place them into the path of a tornado and see what happens, if they survive, then I guess you were right, and babies usually do survive being swept away by tornadoes, and I will owe you an apology...

Let me know how it works out for you...

By the way...If you truly do not understand the difference between Santa and God, well then you truly are as dumb as you are shallow...

(Whoops, I used the CAP lock)

Mr. Clamps The Dishonoured Report 2/9/2008 7:58:58 PM

Clamp... Basically what you have shown the world...yet again...when you are confronted with reason...reason that makes more sense to you, then you care to let on, Ok, I read your post again, just to make sure. Now I'm going to teach you a little something about reasoning. Premise 1: you do not get to tug on Santa's beard Premise 2: in fact after we are long gone, he will continue to make children all over the world smile Conclusion: not make him any less real than you or I Premise 1:that baby who survived that tornado Conclusion :God is very much real  On the first set :If this is your idea of reason then I obviously don't need to hear your opinion on my reasoning skills. You apparently don't even understand the concept of the thing you claim I don't have. You've given me a total non-sequitur; that means P1+P2 do not necesarily =C1. On the second set: OOPS! Looks like there was no reasoning there at all, you just told me a thing. Good for you, look how easy it is for me to make an argument like that P1: the sky is blue C1: god is a lie. WOW, I like your definition of reason way more, except that I would never use it because I hate when people laugh at me. I pity your children, should one day they come, if you do not understand the concept of Santa Claus. AND The idea of Santa Claus is a feeling, as you put it...It is quite the point, perhaps you should have been hugged more as a child and dropped less on your head? (you) Look if people wanna say that gods and Jesus (should have added SANTA, because I thought it was implied but maybe too subtle for some people)  are feelings that exist in our minds which inspire or comfort us etc then I'm totally fine with that. That was the crux of what I set out to say, that they are imaginary and serve to make us feel good. (me) You didn't see this bit? I pity your children for having a daddy who is too loose-brained to understand when someone is agreeing with one point in his rant despite disagreeing with others. I'm not a bogeyman Thunder and I damn well understand Santa. My kids will be privileged to have a father who will teach them wisdom when they're ready for it, not just feed them the same fairy tales into adulthood. Your kids will likely be smarter than you and stop believing as well. What will you do then? Tell them they are wrong when they have grown wiser than you? I pity your kids just as much as you pity mine because I can see you will stifle their minds. Now lastly on a personal level, I take exception to the fact that you assume that my atheism has something to do with bad parenting. I'll have you know the following. The reason I've grown to take an extensive education and to educate myself on many topics outside of school has nothing to do with "being dropped on the head" or "not being hugged". My parents nurtured my mind, allowed me to expand it in WHATEVER direction I found best, and made sure I knew they were proud of me for exceeding them. If you make your bigoted attitude towards knowledge known to your children, be prepared for them to be every bit as ignorant as you are (and proud of it, ironically). No, my atheism is no mental disorder, it comes from having learned where religion comes from, how it works, what it does, and the details concerning a mountain of them. When you learn enough about them you find that they are all the same, and share just as much between each other as they do with Santa, Romeo and Juliet and the Seven Dwarves. In that sense, there is no difference between Santa and God and I hope you'll lose the pride and teach your children that someday. Mine will know and it will have precious little to do with ignorance.

What you have done has been a terrible outburst, worse than mine, you fool.

Clamp... Basically what you have shown the world...yet again...when you are confronted with reason...reason that makes more sense to you, then you care to let on, that you get angry and rattle off a spew of useless prattle...

Thunder is wiser than you, by letting his future children beleive in Santa, because Santa is NOT real, but a part of your heart.  Yes, he knows Santa is not real.  God and Jesus is real, whether you believe it or not.

And here is a story you should read:

A man goes into battle and defeats an army all by himself.  The people rejoice and decide to make that day a holiday.  They keep doing this every year.  Then, pne day, this man makes toys and poster that don't even look like the guy and give gifts and have parades about the fake figure.  And one day, the man, whom the holiday was originally for, came into town, nobody recognized him.

Jesus is real.  Santa is a part of your heart.  Santa is what brings the most joy to your (future) kids during this day.  When they mature, they stop believing in Santa and know that their dad told them Santa was real to keep them happy.  They learn the TRUE reason of CHRISTmas.

You may be too ignorant to understand this, but I hope you simply learn from this and your past mistakes...