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Zany if you don't like it..go home.

Apollo, I am not talking about professing anything. I am saying really truly, REPENTING. Is that not the way?

For me it doesn't matter anyway..the only unforgivable sin is denouncing the Christian god...I am going to Hell no matter what I do :)

"the only unforgivable sin is denouncing the Christian god"

wrong. God forgives anything. remember Saul/Paul? he killed hundreds of Christians and denounced God. But then he became a missionary and repented. If Hitler truly repented, then he has been forgiven. 

no its not wrong...don't try and debat this with me you'll lose ;p

• LUKE 12:10, "And everyone that says a word against the Son of Man, that will be forgiven; But he that blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
• MARK 3:29, "Whoever blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of everlasting sin."
• MATTHEW 12: 31-32 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come".

actually its cobra's pet, cobra, cbr is josef, as most people probably already figured out

Well, if someone is SEEKING forgiveness, than they haven't blasphemed the holy spirit. If you have truly blasphemed the holy spirit, you dont want forgiveness.

I am staying devout to my religion. And someday I will populate my own world with my very own spirit children just as God did with earth.

Trigger Happy Mad Man, I think we may be on the same page. I was raised Southern Baptist, but as of now, im a member of a church thats been around 10 years. we are non Denominational, simply called The Cove, with the mission of celebrating Jesus. We must be doing something right. Went from like 100 members meeting in a school to 4000 members in 5 weekend services. Its almost all volunteer staffing too.

Things work so much better when you let go of tradition and return to the basics.

  not really...  some of it is funny, but most of it is childish bickering, and implementation of the idea that if you say your point enough times, it must be right. I would leave if you actually plan on making a serious point.

Mr. Theophilus VIII

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4/1/2009 2:06:29 AMTrigger Happy Mad Man, I think we may be on the same page. I was raised Southern Baptist, but as of now, im a member of a church thats been around 10 years. we are non Denominational, simply called The Cove, with the mission of celebrating Jesus. We must be doing something right. Went from like 100 members meeting in a school to 4000 members in 5 weekend services. Its almost all volunteer staffing too.

Things work so much better when you let go of tradition and return to the basics.


Explain what you mean by celebrate jesus?

I do live in harmony. Like I was saying my wife is Catholic. I, for her am participating in Lent (sp?). I told her that I would give up soda for 40 days (hardest thing I have had to do yet!) I will go to her church for holidays. I don't purposly seek out christians, catholics, buddhists, or people of the jewish faith to start a debate. I just think that some are not educated about the religions of the world...Christianity is the prevolent religion here, I did my research and that's why I believe what I do. I am not here and don't want to take the time to make you change your mind. You have brains, use them. For a REAL debate, Nightline had a debate christians vs. atheists and the link below you can watch it..interesting stuff. (although there are no punches thrown ;P) cobra became a bigger man today :)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1229854964003619354

pretty sure the anchor is a brit.. :)

I get the feeling I am probably the most intelligent being on this thread, since my IQ at last check was 178. So now I am going to refute EVERY religious excuse for the existance of a higher being. At the end, I will have PROVED beyond reasonable doubt that it was not divine intervention that took place over 6 days that brought us and everything around us here, but scientific FACTS.

Chapter 1 - The Earth.
RELIGION
4026 BC: The Jehovah's Witnesses estimates that Adam was created at this time
* 4004 BC Dr. John Lightfoot a 17th century Anglican clergyman estimated :creation at 4004-OCT-23 BC, at 9 AM. Bishop James Ussher in the 17th century estimated 4004 BCE a decade later than Lightfoot, and got all the credit.
* 4002 BCE: Augustin Calmet (1672-1757) corrected some of the errors in Ussher. He computed 2344 BCE as the year of the flood of Noah.
* 3761 BCE: Ancient Jewish scholars placed creation at this date; this became the basis of the Jewish Calendar.
* 3641-FEB-10: This is the date of creation used by the Mayans.
* 3616 BCE: Estimated by the Jewish Rabbi Lipman (1579 - 1654)

SCIENCE
The generally accepted age for the Earth and the rest of the solar system is about 4.55 billion years (plus or minus about 1%). This value is derived from several different lines of evidence
The oldest rocks which have been found so far (on the Earth) date to about 3.8 to 3.9 billion years ago (by several radiometric dating methods). Some of these rocks are sedimentary, and include minerals which are themselves as old as 4.1 to 4.2 billion years. Rocks of this age are relatively rare, however rocks that are at least 3.5 billion years in age have been found on North America, Greenland, Australia, Africa, and Asia.
The most common methods of dating are reliant on the dating of carbon, a base element found in every particle on earth, be it plant, animal, rock. IT IS THE COMMON ELEMENT WE SHARE WITH EVERYTHING.

Can we prove the BIG BANG THEORY? yes. The theory is proved every year, in the confines of the universe. We witness the birth of stars and planets all the time. We have since taken it upon ourselves to prove this event by replicating it here on earth. In Switzerland, the largest network of its kind is being built to recreate the big bang on a small scale. The religious fanatics who failed at getting the millenium "armageddon" date right have now focused their attention on claiming this event will be the end of the world.

Chapter 2 - HUMANS
RELIGION - From dust, Adam was created. Eve was given to him as a companion, following the removal of one of his ribs?? Why not make her from the same magic dust?

SCIENCE.
Whilest most point to the Darwinian Theory of Evolution, that only explains a tiny fraction of the history of man. All life began in the oceans, from single cell microcosms, which evolved to become self replicating multi cellular microcosms. As this early form of life continued to evolve, they took on characteristics that made them adaptable to their environment.
It is in the warmer waters of what we know now as the indian ocean, that the strain of amphibian creatures evolved, as the warmer waters are oxygen rich, allowing creatures to develop lungs capable of handling air both in and out of water. Hence, the concept of life having originated in Africa is relevent, although Africa at this time was part of a greater land mass, with continents still shifting.

Human fossils found 38 years ago in Africa are 195,000 years old. The two skulls and some bones were first uncovered on opposite sides of Ethiopia's Omo River in 1967. This again is proved by carbon dating. This has also been confirmed by radiation dating, which is a very precise science, as ALL matter contains atomic radioactive matter, which decays at a common rate.

The Darwinian Theory of Evolution is very often misunderstood as being a transformational version of evolution, which is that evolution has to do with the essence of a species and that offspring are always improvements on the parents. This is in contrast to the Darwinian concept of natural selection, which is variational, emphasizing variation among members of the same species. With a variational evolutionary theory, offspring are not always improvements on their parents, but merely survivalists with the ability to improve and adapt to their environments.

The break through of manking to becoming the dominent species of life was not the wheel, or fire or any of that mumbo jumbo. It relied on one very simple evolutionary trait. The development of the human thumb. It is the single most IMPORTANT evolutionary event to have enabled man to grasp, wield and adapt objects. No other creature, even our distant relatives, the apes, have the ability to use their thumbs as we do. This enabled us the ability to craft tools, resulting in mans development.

The human being is also the only creature that gives premature birth. By living creature standards, humans are born premature. Hence, a baby has a soft skull, as the skulls bones have not fused. This is to allow the premature creature to pass through the narrow space of the birth canal. Our brains are also premature, hence our inability to walk crawl or do anything for at least a year of our lives. All animals can move within minutes of birth, and thus have a shorter nursing time to the human being. This is also why the human child learns more in its first two years of life, than throughout its entire life. The process of thought takes place around 7 months after birth, again proven by monitoring electrical activities an different areas of the brain.

THE SOUL
Religion - A divine being that rests within all of us, which gives us our morality, and is seperated from the vessel, the human body, at death.

Science- The Soul resides in elements of the brain, which interconnect different areas of the brain. The important section is that which connects our DEEP MEMORY sectors, the hippocampus and the limbic system of the brain. This area is our programmed space, which tells us, from being told, and from experience right and wrong. Our parents, teachers and the world around us programs this. People with damaged connections in this brain area tend to show criminal traits, or anti social activities. However, if you were to leave a child unexposed to the education of right and wrong by human standards, you would have a survivalist animal...

So when you say God exists, I beg you for one shred of evidence. Fatih is not a believe in the unknown...it is a replacement of the fear of the unknown. For every piece of divine proof, I will give you 3 scientific reasons with PROOF beyond the words of a book written by some people looking to elevate their own social standings and wealth by preying on the insecurities of the humans fear of the dark.

OWNED!

"I get the feeling I am probably the most intelligent being on this thread, since my IQ at last check was 178. So now I am going to refute EVERY religious excuse for the existance of a higher being. At the end, I will have PROVED beyond reasonable doubt that it was not divine intervention that took place over 6 days that brought us and everything around us here, but scientific FACTS."

I'm glad you know your science, and on the whole I agree with your arguments, but you're still a presumptuous *beep*.

Ya, presumptuous was a bad word,  but that doesn't take away from the fact that when writing your response, you spelled it incorrectly. If you have a MENSA-registered, officially tested, IQ of 178 (mine is 154 officially tested), than congrats, but if you took one of the ridiculous internet IQ tests, not only is it not official, but it's more than likely horribly, horribly, wrong.

        I'm 99% sure you have just pulled that number out of your ass, because anything around 180, and you are 1 in 20,696,863. Basically, you are a genius. You're such a genius in fact, that the government would probably stop by your house and offer you a job shortly after your test results came in.

here are some famous IQ's for you, are you telling us you're as smart/smarter than them?

        Marilyn Vos Savant Writer USA 186

Johannes Kepler Mathematician, physicist & astronomer Germany 175

Benjamin Franklin Writer, scientist & politician USA 160 


     The list goes on and on and on, of people you are apparently smarter
than. You, sir, are full of shiit. Here's a fun quote from Steven
Hawking for you: 



  "People that brag about their IQ's are losers"    not complicated, but very to the point.
           

"I get the feeling I am probably the most intelligent being on this thread, since my IQ at last check was 178."

HAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHAAHHAAHHAHAHAHAAAHAAAHAHHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Angelfire, you "presumed" to be the most intelligent person in this thread, and you "presumed" that you are able to refute EVERY single excuse for religion, among others.  In fact, you only looked at three cases from Christianity alone. If you wanted to refute them all, you'd need to spend a lifetime doing it.  You might be the smartest person in the thread, but I find your arrogance abysmal.

Science doesn't disprove religion.  It can disprove its myths, but it simply has nothing to say about any form of higher power.  Science disproves 6-day creation.  But it doesn't disprove God.

And I don't say this as a religious person.  I'm not one, at all.  I say this because anyone who claims science should be aware of what it applies to, and understand when they cross over the line into the line of personal interpretation or philosophy, which is one reason why Dawkins is criticized by many of his peers.

Banana and his video FTW!

I'm not sure if that statement is addressed to me or not, since as I've said before I'm not really a believer myself, and I'm certainly not asking you to believe in anything.

Alright, Hitler...try gas chambers, they are good for removing people.

@ Angel Fire. To find peace on earth, we do not need to remove religion and replace it with common sense. The only thing thats needed is for everyone to accept that someone else can believe something entirely different from what you believe(are you an atheïst btw? Remember that Atheism is also a religion) and to let those other people be. If we could all just accept on disagreeing on certain aspects of life, then that should be a huge step towards worldpeace. This is something you clearly lack as you're almost forcing your scientific beliefs on us.

Also a little point of criticism; You said you were going to refute EVERY religious excuse for the existance of a higher being. But you only focussed on the Bible. What happened to Islam, Ancient Greek/Roman beliefs and the many other religions out there?

Sir Santa Report 4/6/2009 6:38:55 PM

@ Angel Fire. To find peace on earth, we do not need to remove religion and replace it with common sense. The only thing thats needed is for everyone to accept that someone else can believe something entirely different from what you believe(are you an atheïst btw? Remember that Atheism is also a religion) and to let those other people be. If we could all just accept on disagreeing on certain aspects of life, then that should be a huge step towards worldpeace. This is something you clearly lack as you're almost forcing your scientific beliefs on us. Also a little point of criticism; You said you were going to refute EVERY religious excuse for the existance of a higher being. But you only focussed on the Bible. What happened to Islam, Ancient Greek/Roman beliefs and the many other religions out there?

believing in fairytales should be tolerated?  why is that?

in my beliefs it is ok, to kill whomever i like ... so ... tolerate me? in my beliefs, when a baby is 'handicapped', then it is ok to kill it (to preserve a better genepool, create a race of 'better' people ... instead of giving every piece of inbred fecal matter a chance to live and spoil it for the 'better' people)

every religious book can be replaced with the bible, it doesn't change the arguement ... it still is a load of crap.

Formatieduiker, if you haven't checked, this is a religious debate so only religious beliefs matter, not your ignorant bs. Also, get a better nickname next time, this one sucks.

Santa, atheism is not a religion.  If it is, then anyone who is a theist/deist to one or several god is an atheist to the millions of others.

lol, proves your point :-) hilarious :-p

"A book has been written on atheïsm and Christianity called "I don't have enough faith to be an atheïst". The title alone proves my point :)"

Tell me... do you read what you write? Do you know how retarded that was?