Forums / Questions and Answers / GvE Map Side Change

GvE Map Side Change
17:33:57 Dec 9th 19 - Percy (Mr. Percy The Noble):

Why was the GvE map size changed?? It now removes several of the primary secure areas on the map, and without any warning


17:37:09 Dec 9th 19 - Mr. Bane:

Cause we are evil and do what we want. 


17:38:35 Dec 9th 19 - Percy (Mr. Percy The Noble):

Also that y’all got another player despite us having less members? What’s going on??


17:39:21 Dec 9th 19 - Mr. Bane:

We breeding. Pengy squeezed wilbernub out his ass.


17:39:24 Dec 9th 19 - Matthew (Chief Mattis):

The map itself is honestly quite good but I do not agree with expanding it mid-era.
I agree with what Percy said.

We should all agree not to use this bridge in the short term:


17:40:00 Dec 9th 19 - Mr. Bane:

What !! Im already heading there !


17:42:15 Dec 9th 19 - Matthew (Chief Mattis):

In my opinion the other expansions were not so egregious. There are 2~ other locations that got exposed by the expansion but they arent as bad- a backdoor into the main Good base isn't even a bad expansion.

But this bridge in particular is VERY OBJECTIONABLE because it exposes the single most secure part of the map to the most densely populated part of the map.


08:40:00 Dec 9th 19 - Mr. Bane:

What !! Im already heading there !


I know you're joking around but there are like four players right there with armories who just got a direct path into the back of your core :v


17:44:08 Dec 9th 19 - Mr. Bane:

Thats why im headed there. You be good boys and sit and wait. I be right over.


17:47:09 Dec 9th 19 - Phat (Grand Moff Good Boy):

Seriously, I think it should be reverted.

Even if that means evil gets to keep their MC in the most defensible positions.


17:47:57 Dec 9th 19 - Matthew (Chief Mattis):

Fair point, I didnt think about it that way.

Good gets a direct path to some Free Mines,
but Evil gets a direct path to some Free Armories!

When you put it that way it honestly seems a lot better.


Honestly though the map should be knocked back down to 2400x2400 OR re-crop the map so that Evil gets a terrain advantage instead of a terrain disadvantage.


17:50:00 Dec 9th 19 - Mr. Bane:

Nah, your secure cramped core is suddenly lambs to the slaughter. Map expands again in 10 days.


17:52:51 Dec 9th 19 - Phat (Grand Moff Good Boy):

If we knew the map would be expanding throughout the era I am sure we would have had much different strats and even landed with differetn races.


Also, back to the draft. The fuck w Rox, Good already has fewer players.

Why does evil to have new joiners?


17:59:01 Dec 9th 19 - Mr. Bane:

We evil, we dont play by your rules. We got zeta chained to my bed and we do what we want.


18:22:52 Dec 9th 19 - Lord Jellybean (Lord Jellybean Angel):

Kingdoms in GvE Qua
Good21Mr. Good Guy100
Evil23Lord Herman Webster Mudgett68

Evil needs it ;)


18:35:30 Dec 9th 19 - Bran (Mr. Bran):

why was the map expanded mid era?


18:40:22 Dec 9th 19 - Percy (Mr. Percy The Noble):

It introduces 3 new vulnerabilities to Good that a slight tweak would reduce down to only 1... given that this is the first time a map has changed mid-era, I would like to ask ZeTa to reduce the amount of expansion (preferably undo it entirely) to remove pathing across the new areas to preserve original spatial integrity 


18:47:10 Dec 9th 19 - Phat (Grand Moff Good Boy):

Dude, this exposes areas that good has built into defensive positions, while only allowing one Evil area to be accessed via a new rout, while additionally giving evil all the extra room to farm in already secured location.

Even though we're irked about the Rox thing, that's politics and should be hashed out between players.

This is just unjust expansion of the map from a programmatic side. 

I second Percys suggestion of reducing the map size so it's still expanded, but allows for just one new opening in the defense of good and not 3.


18:49:22 Dec 9th 19 - McMax (Battlemage Mcmax The Dark Knight):

We (the Evils) are just as surprised as the socalled Goods (not to be "confused" with Gods).




18:56:44 Dec 9th 19 - McMax (Mr. Grumpy Old Wild Boar):

Hmmm. We still need sailors and boats. At least if we are going to populate the southwestern corner.


But..... in case this is a test from Admin........ expanding a map from time to time through the era. Well - let's take the test and have the discussion when the era has ended.


18:59:01 Dec 9th 19 - Mr. Bane:

Zeta gets whipped, does what i say... mwhahahahaha .. now shut up already.


19:12:14 Dec 9th 19 - Lord Jellybean (Lord Jellybean Angel):

Phat:

I second Percys suggestion of reducing the map size so it's still expanded, but allows for just one new opening in the defense of good and not 3.

I agree with this. Otherwise it is quite dispiriting tbh.. :( 


19:42:48 Dec 9th 19 - Mr. Bane:

Shut up, none of you are worthy. While zeta getting whipped, he does what we say. Expand more zeta.


19:56:46 Dec 9th 19 - Stormy (Lord Herman Webster Mudgett):

I’ve been waiting to use this gif



20:02:53 Dec 9th 19 - Matthew (Chief Mattis):

Regarding the map: We're all in agreement that it's odd/messes with the era to have it expanded mid era *without prior knowledge*. THAT SAID we should treat it as if it were a test of a new mechanic- Anyone remember how cool connected worlds were for a bit?
If we knew it were coming this sort of thing could actually be pretty neat.

Regarding the draft: It's still 48%/52% in terms of KD population: very even. It wouldn't have felt right to assign the newest player to Good IMO (we should still try to keep the KD populations relatively even but assigning the new person to Evil was correct IMO)


20:04:25 Dec 9th 19 - Mr. Bane:

We had two players go awol so quit bitching. 


20:05:19 Dec 9th 19 - Penguin (Mr. Mikhail Popkov):

Evil should have at least +2 players more cause of the deal horus made himself, taking in aloy and we where getting other players. but we dont. and i dont care even. this map getting us all screwed for the 2nd time. OOP and now map expansion. 


20:08:35 Dec 9th 19 - Mr. Bane:

Horus is a facist and the anti christ. in fact he wants to cancel xmas and kill puppies.


20:09:15 Dec 9th 19 - Matthew (Chief Mattis):

The real tragedy this era is that people are losing cities to 100k unit Gaia armies and fielding armies with like 3k MU nearly ten days into the era.

Did ZeTa add a lobotomy spell to the game?


20:11:00 Dec 9th 19 - Mr. Bane:

you lot started the gaia shit. 


20:19:39 Dec 9th 19 - Mr. Bane:

From Stormy



20:52:26 Dec 9th 19 - McMax (Mr. Grumpy Old Wild Boar):

Ohhhh dang it. I'm too old for that kind of females (besides I don't like that wooden stick - now had it been a 6-pack then......).


As for the expansion of the map - now I say, let it be continued. Little by little without notice to the players until we have a full 2x2 full-sized map.

Somehow when you all are finished saying this is redicu..... ahhhhh, can't spell it.... or unfair or anything, I think this could be a "feature" for one world. Remember it's the same for all of us.


21:03:23 Dec 9th 19 - Lord Jellybean (Lord Jellybean Angel):

Okay if that is the way the world evolves then let it be, it changes the dynamic but good will adapt :)


21:19:50 Dec 9th 19 - Matthew (Chief Mattis):

Regardless of who started the 100k Gaia 5k MU war I simply pray that someone ends it!


I have no idea how someone could defeat a strategy so powerful nor an army so mighty- I've heard rumors and hushed whispers of 'Defensive Units' and 'Magic' along with fearful chatter of 'very high prep times' and 'high upkeep' along with 'low offensive power'.


I dare not say more- I've said too much already.

My VU inbox is already completely full of messages reading
'Matthew do not tell them my secrets I do not wish to train the Hammerthrower'.


21:24:11 Dec 9th 19 - Percy (Sir Varro The Adept):

I have zero problem with a dynamically expanding map, I actually would love to have that be a feature on a world! As mentioned above, gives the feel of the old connected worlds I really miss. But the whole doing it mid-era with no knowledge is kindve a crappy move from all perspectives. Least take us out to dinner before you screw us :P


I have no problem playing through this though if nothing will be done about it, but understand our disgruntlement is founded on solid ground. I hope no further era-altering changes are implemented mid-era furthermore without prior warning to players.


21:26:22 Dec 9th 19 - Ms. Tatu Rox:

Don't think you've been done over by the draft, I'm really not gonna be active and I can only play for a month 🙂


21:38:57 Dec 9th 19 - Stormy (Lord Herman Webster Mudgett):

@ Matthis So many assumptions on your end not going to even try to respond because you’re probably troll baiting. (For example you imply there is no magic on our end when I have been casting on your orcs non stop). 


The Gaia spam strat can be effective and I give props to good side for pulling it off.

So in other words let the adults speak now...


21:53:03 Dec 9th 19 - Emperor Caligula:

Can i just eat someone... bigger map, smaller map my gaia are nasty jerks who are ripping apart my couch's and i paid a pretty penny for those couch's.. who has some nice couch's?


21:55:09 Dec 9th 19 - Mr. Bane:

Zeta also added himself to the kd to do testing. He can shoot dragons out of his penis so dont make me unleash him on you


02:58:29 Dec 10th 19 - Matthew (Chief Mattis):

I'm definitely trolling a little but anyone who thinks offensive Gaia spam is 'broken' or 'OP' isn't very good at the game.

Every single race in the game can deal with it effectively except maybe halfling


There's a lot of reasons that people lose to it but tl;dr people get caught off guard.


It's not the *UNIT* that's ultra-effective at capturing cities. 
Imagine thinking that a unit with 1 offense point was the best city-capture unit in the game.


It's the strategy (and Orc) that's ultra effective.
Not the unit's ability to capture cities.


03:05:00 Dec 10th 19 - Matthew (Chief Mattis):

The strategy of planting yourself right in the middle of an enemy core is and always will be one of the most effectively strategies in VU.

It's extremely effective OOP and it's extremely effective when you have AOTD/etc. It's just a good strategy overall.


If ANY player/race plants themselves into an enemy core then they force every single player around them to train troops in every single city around them to match the threat.

It's extremely disproportional.

That's a winning strategy.


03:27:16 Dec 10th 19 - Matthew (Chief Mattis):

Gaia are 'unbeatable' on the defense OOP (and well beyond it).

*50 gold/dp (2 DP) on a race with the 2nd (arguably 1st) best Mil/Mining science in the game
*The unit doesn't require peasants at a time when people often come OOP with fewer than 40k peasants (that all pay unusually high tax ratios in the same way low-land-production buildings overproduce)
*The drawback of paying massive food per tick to house the Gaia is negligible/not a relevant factor OOP because farms overproduce and population count is generally low.


Gaia are 'average' for capturing enemy cities in a game where the only decent OOP races (NOT Elves/Dwarves/Halflings*) have above average units that are above average at city capture.

You'll literally never prep an enemy city with ANY other 1 Offense Point unit.
Aside from the first 24-48 ticks of OOP when you prep someone with Gaia you're mostly using the Gaia to add defense points to your hammerthrower or going all-in against someone who under-trained (very common OOP).


04:09:49 Dec 10th 19 - Matthew (Mr. Olog):

Big spooky Orc builds 2k building city between the 10 mines in your KD's core pre-OOP and it's a winning strategy for the Orc every single time no matter what your Kingdom does and no matter what the Orc does.

Orc trained a lot? Very winning trade.
Orc trained a little? Also a winning trade.
Orc trained ZERO units? Still a winning trade!

Orcs are the *only* race in the game who can do this kind of very-low-risk/low commitment yet very-high-reward strategy and it's because of Gaia's defensive utility/day 1 OOP surprise power.

Building in an enemy core is still a winning strategy if anyone other than an Elf does it but it's a very high risk/high commitment strategy for everyone else (as it should be)


An Orc who comes OOP with around 30,000-50,000 Gaia on top of any of your KD's cities is spooky

An Orc who can't be removed from your core because he dumped some Gaia into homes is spooky

An Orc who walks at cities on Day 7+ with around 80,000 Gaia 0 Hammerthrowers and 5k MU shouldnt be very scary to anyone but his allies.


04:27:02 Dec 10th 19 - Matthew (Mr. Olog):

tl;dr dont read any of that unless you lose cities to pure Gaia armies past day 3 or 4 or refuse to train any Hammerthrowers before you train any Nazgul


04:49:50 Dec 10th 19 - Emperor Magicalpolarbear:

Why are you putting a terrible guide in the complain about map change thread?


06:03:22 Dec 10th 19 - Matthew (Chief Mattis):

'The 1/2 unit is better on defense than offense/better in a city than on one' isn't a guide.


I noticed that a lot of discussion in the two GvE threads was about Gaia spam/losing cities to Gaia spam so I wanted to quad-post about why Gaia prepping your city isnt actually 'OP'.

If it's a guide then yes it is a terrible guide. 
A terrible guide for terrible players.



11:30:26 Dec 10th 19 - ZeTa (VU Admin):

hmm... I have no idea how this happened. I've checked my own logs to make sure I'm not crazy, so it wasn't me who increased the size. This means that the game was possibly hacked.

I'm thinking about maybe resetting from a backup...

If you have any info or you are the one who did it. Please message me via e-mail admin@visual-utopia.com

edit: I found out why, see below


11:35:12 Dec 10th 19 - Mr. Bane:

-_-


11:38:07 Dec 10th 19 - Mr. Bling Babe:


11:48:30 Dec 10th 19 - Mr. Bane:

don't reset. Most of the players actually like the size increase. Make it happen again in 7 days time.

BTW it was Wilbernub when he spawned.


11:51:45 Dec 10th 19 - Ms. Tatu Rox:

Yeah seems when I spawned the size got bigger as I spawned right on the edge of the map.


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