Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / An open letter to Graymaine
| An open letter to Graymaine | ||||
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Graymaine, I'm writing an open letter to you to discuss an issue which a fair portion of the VU community has with your gameplay - your usage of bonus turns. As you know, we're a very small community here. Though I don't know the figures, but I'd assume there's less than a hundred active players now. And, the reason we're all still here is because we want to play and enjoy the game - and I imagine that applies to you too. For all the time that I've played VU, I've never considered it a pay-to-win game, and I think this is a broadly shared feeling amongst most of the active player base. Over the past few eras however, on a few different worlds, it's been noted that you've been using an increasing amount of paid for bonus turns. And the feeling is that this is giving you an unfair advantage. Now, whether you agree with that or not isn't particularly relevant - as this is how people feel. You buying and using so many bonus turns is driving a fair number of the few active players we have to consider whether they wish to continue playing this game any longer. I appreciate you may feel that buying bonus turns puts you on a level playing field with some of the more experienced players in the game, and I understand that. But to that, I'd say, reach out to those players and ask how they play - and try and do the same. I also appreciate you may feel buying bonus turns helps you win. And I get that, we all want to win, we wouldn't be human otherwise. But I would ask you to consider, at what cost do you want to win? Beyond the amount of money you're spending, do you want to drive any of the few players we have from the game? As I don't think you do. After all, that ruins the game for you as much as the rest of us. Now, I'm not sure if you're aware, but this issue has been discussed many times on our Discord over the past few weeks and months. I haven't seen you on there, but I would encourage you to join. Although it might not seem like it as you read this, we're all a friendly, happy group, and I think I speak for us all when I say it would be nice to get to know you better. So, thank you for hearing me out. I hope you consider your gameplay a little bit - as you are a good player from what I've seen. It would just be nice for us all to face you on a more even playing field. All the best, ~ Sam | ||||
Agree with this post | ||||
Not to disagree. But since everyone has found short cuts to finding Terrain and city sizes ( circles extension) and RP points can give titles. What money does the game make without the purchase of BT’s..? How long will it be before we get on one morning and the game no longer exists since it makes 0 money. This game costs money to keep running. Not trying to disagree that it can be annoying.. but everyone here has found ways around paying money in rather than spending a little to find a way to get ZETA to come back. The player base went from hundreds back in the day to 30.. he can’t use the ad based turns anymore since we don’t have the base of players to get ads Anymore. At any one point he can’t use move exactly 4 Army movements extra in a 10 hour period. It’s not hard to plan for. It sucks. But it’s no Different than a CT excerpt for prep.. | ||||
Except^ | ||||
In Discord, we aren’t suggesting to quit buying and using paid turns. We’re suggesting to self-limit the rate of use to allow gameplay to be fair for those who don’t wish to buy BTs. A rate proposed in Discord was 1 BT use per day. This would remove BT-spamming, where you burn 3 BTs + tick change to gain 4 ticks of movement in one swing. This proposal still allows however many BTs you want to use across the era, but removes the game-breaking chain use of BTs that undermine any strategic planning. BT chaining is game breaking since there is no counter. There are counters to CTs (major MT losses restrict max distance). There are counters to army merging for speed (freeze the scouts and you freeze the whole stack). Any other speed-related boost is counterable. BT spamming is not. We, as a community, need to find a middle ground here BEFORE we lose any more players than we already have. Because this goes beyond Gray. Many people have left in the past as well due to BT abuse. | ||||
We could as a community not accept players into the kingdom that bt spam? That way if you wanna go against the general consensus, you do it alone and more likely to get picked off. | ||||
Knigh: I think this is the most pragmatic solution. We just need leaders in place that are prepared to take such action. | ||||
You want to support the game? I will personally buy a VIP account for any leader who wants to be part of the little Geneva Convention idea to make sure VU stays as fair as possible. | ||||
This is the most silly piece of BS I've ever read, and I don't say that lightly. You should delete this thread and apologize to Gray for being an asshat. ZeTa is not that interested in running this game, but the BTs he sells keep the server running. He has kept the server up for 20 years, and the only thing he gets apart from abuse from this tiny player base, the only thanks he gets, are the occasional BT buys to pay for the upkeep. There are dozens of unbalanced things about this game, worse than BT's. What about AOTD? What about Orc OOP? What about merging and planting cities faster than an army can move. What about no limits to kingdom sizes? Remove the BTs, and ZeTa has no reason to pay for YOU to keep playing this game for free. | ||||
I also have a vip account. Which is a one time $40 fee. Not going to keep the game going. The best solution is to find something everyone wants added to the game for a fee and make the game money and get rid of the turn. Or more restrictive access like 1 per every 2 ticks to cull the spam. But to cut the only finding this game gets is crazy. Wouldn’t been a few weeks and this server would be gone. It sucks but it’s lucky people still pay for things since everyone went out and got around the vip bonuses. But zeta gets nothing for showing up to help. Just more players wanting things fixed who put absolutely $0 into the game and cry about wanting things fixed. I bet gray and myself have put more into this game in the last 3 eras than anyone else has in the last 10 besides maybe hanky. If any leaders want to vote on this. I also want to vote on the mili 0 orc. To get rid of one I want the other gone to. That also has ran players off | ||||
Mr. Naughtius Maximus: Unsurprisingly, the only people that seem fine about the BT use are those in Gray's kingdom. | ||||
hes not saying people buy BTs to support the game, but that supporting the game is the effect of buying the BTs. | ||||
I'm not sure you've understood my point Bran. And I just want to say, it seems there's a desire from those in Gray's corner to spin this narrative that he purchases BTs solely to support the game. And whilst I've already said that to me, that's laughable, that's neither here nor there. Whilst I've no doubt that it suits Gray's agenda to have the funding of the game and his BT use muddied, they're two completely separate issues. My point, and my sole point, was that if Gray continues playing in this unsportsman like way, he will likely drive a good portion of the few players we have away from the game. | ||||
I have played this game for over 20 years now, we all love this game for some reason. Other than BTs there's really no other way the game has any income for the creator. Don't think there are lots of people buying sponsor accounts any more, considering we rarely have any new players. Over the years Gray has never been one to kill kingdoms by himself with his BT usage, never been a problem for anyone, except his extreme activity. I have never heard anyone say Gray is an issue over the twenty years. The guy clearly likes the game and enjoys the little small parts of the game, like killing Mage or peasants transports, teleporting a city and taking it with a small army. When have you heard Gray having a horde that can't be stopped? You've basically decided to bully a guy that buys bonus turns and molests Mages and undefended cities, and I will not be part of it. If you need Gray to leave so that the few players can keep playing, so be it. I will be leaving the game after twenty years as well, and frankly I suggest to Gray to leave as well, I would not want to be part of this community anyways. | ||||
I feel as though you've all spent so much time telling yourself that Gray's supporting Zeta and VU financially, that you can't seperate VU's finances with Gray's gameplay. And it's preventing all of you around him from seeing how other players are being affected. You're conveniently ignoring other player's feelings. This narrative you've built up that Gray's buying BTs purely to keep the lights on is just bizarre. And the constant gaslighting of anyone that criticises the BT use is frustrating to see. | ||||
the gaslighting around this has been insane. I honestly don’t see the point of playing a game where a select few players are okay with one dude getting 35 ticks when everyone else gets 24. Any other sane person would see this as a clear abuse of power but not this elitist group. Just insane to me ngl. Grayson’s efforts might not be enough to win him eras but he’s annoying enough with all that BT abuse that we have to consistently spend our magic resources and lose cities to him which otherwise will not be possible at all. | ||||
Not sure how that’s a load of bullshit tbh. It’s a clear abuse of a game mechanic that has seemingly bubbled up again over the last couple of eras. And the fact that the entire team of players I’m a part of have had to be on the opposite side of this constant abuse is kinda insane. It’s getting pretty tiring to do this constantly tbh and I’m at a point where I’d rather personally just quit the game or quit playing against this group of players somehow but it’s impossible cuz they’ll be everywhere | ||||
It’s like you’re going to continue to slap someone and when the person says enough I don’t wanna be slapped anymore, your response is but you used your 3 slaps too, so you deserve to continue to be slapped. Like WTF. That’s just crazy talk to me. | ||||
That above example is literally what one of the BT abusers said to me. I’m not even kidding. | ||||
I'm trying to figure out what the point of this post is. | ||||
Anybody want to create a special map which only the heavy hitter BT players can access? Set a BT usage rate on all of the other maps - but, let anybody who needs a lot of BTs to play be forced to use the special map. Since only a few players would be able to afford this, everyone goes untagged. Era winner gets more BTs, cash or?? To expedite game play, lose the bridges. This should make for a very short - albeit violent - era. | ||||
So a world for like 3-4 players? | ||||
Might be. Depends on who likes to buy a lot of BTs. I don't think it'll be heavily populated. Sort of like GvE on steroids. Without a reliance on kds. or blockers, it'd be interesting to see who has the best OOP strategy, defensive/magic prowess and the best VU skills. In addition, maybe make one of the present maps only for players who get the initial 3 BTs - but can't buy any more. Game play would reflect their VU skills, ability to organize, prioritize, and strategize - and not their bank account. | ||||
Gonna be the bad guy here. He buys bt and thank you Greyman for keeping the game running. Us poor people who cant also abuse bts appreciate it..... | ||||
I literally said I'd buy people who didn't have paid accounts the vip accounts. But I'd have to see the community is interested in thriving and not just surviving. Y'all can say that BTs support Zeta all you like, I won't argue that point. But it doesn't matter if Zeta is supported if people keep leaving (they are) And not all of those departures are the fault of someone spamming BTs (though many are) but almost all of them are from various game mechanics that need support from the admin that we aren't getting. Maybe the reason he doesn't make updates is because he doesn't need to be cause people keep funding it anyway. Maybe if everyone stopped buying BTs he's make some much needed updates. No one knows so that's not really an argument either way The point is people are quitting the game left and right and it IS dying. | ||||
> Without people willing to do both but mostly offer a constructive solution I have said plenty of times if there was a Patreon model to donate X per month to Zeta, I'm sure a lot of people would come forward and support it. ME included. | ||||
I would too @ZeTa please fix your game, we'll pay you | ||||
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