| Deep Discussions |
This is more or less a branch off what I was commenting on in the Karma or Coincidence topic, but I felt that I was leading away from the original topic a bit.
Comment here only if you want to get into a deeper topic of religion rather than the average q&a that you normally see. There are a lot of deep questions out there that sometimes are hard to answer. I have my own as well and not every question has a known answer as of yet.
I myself am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, also commonly referred to as the "Mormon Church." There are alot of myths out there about my own religion. That is common with almost any group that falls outside of "mainstream." I know masons, muslims, jews, and many other groups get slandered daily. I wish to correct a few things as asked. I will do the best that I can to be clear about my beliefs and will be glad to here your own beliefs.
I will not shy away from things as I normally would. I will be as open and direct as I can. I will not answer things that I do not know.
To start this discussion, I'd like to here whether you believe in a Supreme Intelligence or not, or in a force beyond the natural man.
As for me, I believe in a God, that He is Our Father, the Father of Our Spirits. He is the Divine Designer of all things. I believe that His Son, Jesus Christ, is our Savior, the One who took upon the punishments of our sins and mistakes so we wouldn't have to if we accepted and followed Him. I believe that there is also a Being known as the Holy Ghost, of the Spirit of God.
I believe that the Father and the Son, Jesus Christ, have bodies like ours, but glorified and perfected, immortal and eternal. The Holy Ghost, however, has only a body of spirit so He can dwell within us.
All Three work as One perfect unit, with one goal, to help us to become like our Father, glorified and perfect.
|
I think it is reasonable to assume that the Earth is not the only planet in the Universe that contains intelligent life. The observations based on the Hubble space satellite pictures indicate that there is at least more than a few hundred billions galaxies out there. In our galaxy there are about 100 billion stars, like our Sun being one of them. I'd say there are quite many other planets out there as well, and our small world is just a tiny atom in a side of a drop in a vast sea of stars.
Now, my question being, how does your religion manifest itself in the worlds of other species. You think there's similar history in all of the million alien worlds, with some individual raised in a rank of Jesus-the-alien?
How about the fact that human race has not been around for too long. Maybe few hundred thousand years, while the age of our planet is about 4.54 billion years. That's a very short time that our own species has been around... and we never know how long we will be here, since we keep destroying our planet's limited resources at such a pace. One big reason being the ignorant people, believing in some ghosts and priests, not understanding for real the consequences of our actions, while being controlled by the power-seeking politicians using the religion as a tool to control the masses.
Do you believe that you are being controlled through the religion, or do you really believe that some book written by multiple authors maybe 1700 years ago could contain actual truths? Wouldn't it make more sense that the more recent knowledge would be more on the target?
|
I am a vinyardist, we belive in a supreme being, and share quite a few views on values as other protestant sects, the difference between a Vinyardist and most other sects is belif that, though Jesus was the son of god, he was still a man (he had to be) and theirfor was still given the flaws of man (temptation, ect). He just overcame them. We belive that if Jesus were to decend again today, he would be more then just a glowing angel heralding the end times, he would be the guy you call up and say "I need help moving" or "Want to watch a movie?" and he would respond positivly. He will be devine, but still man.
I will enjoy reading this thread. Though I am not likley to post in it again >.<
|
Your questions are indeed well spent. We do believe that God has made worlds without end. We believe that His works are endless. To understand it all is not possible for our mortal minds. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever and operates on every world after the same manner He does here.
Also, the age of this world can only be estimated, but not fully proven, for no one is still alive from the beginning to say so. Time is relative and "Time is only measured by man." So the age of this world is irrelevant. For one thing, God did not simply create the earth out of thin air, but organized already existing material into a world we now call Earth, perhaps material from past worlds reused, just like the physical matter that makes up our bodies.
The molecules and atoms constantly change, people erode and decay and those same molecules are passed on to the next person, creature, or other thing. If you dated the molecules in me, would that determine my age or just the age of the material that makes me up? I am only 21 years old but the atoms that make me up have been around forever. Think of Earth in the same way.
Now, most religion has become a tool of evil, to control the masses, as you put it. Shortly after Christ's death, the apostles struggled to maintain the pure doctrine of Christ, but people rejected them as well and killed them. People made unauthorized changes to Christ's teachings, some by mistake, others on purpose to control the masses. All evidence of Christ's church was soon lost through countless councils, debates, and evil intent. Constantine organized a church merely to prevent a civil war in his rule. This church still could not agree and split into the Roman Catholic and the Greek Orthodox. The churches were used to rule mankind temporally, which was against Christ who said, "My kingdom is not of this world."
This is what is called an apostasy, a falling away from truth. Due to this Great Apostasy, mankind used religion to oppress and retard the minds of the people. This caused the Dark Ages. God knew that this would happen, and He prepared a way for His church to be restored. He has always called prophets, and he always will. Finally, when religious freedom sprouted in a young United States, God knew that it was finally safe to call another prophet, a young boy only 14 years old, Joseph Smith. All of Christ's most precious teachings were restored, but people still choose not to follow truth but their own fantasies and partial truths.
The Bible mentions this that the would be a falling away. But behind the corrupt governments and powers lies the real enemy of mankind that has been here from the beginning. He is the one that always sets man against his neighbor, tempts kings and presidents to abuse their power to bring terror and confusion to the world. He is called the devil.
The world will continue to be corrupted and polluted until Christ returns. The destruction of the Earth only reflects the corruption of its inhabitants. The earth has never suffered as much as now, because the earth as never been so full of evil and corruption as now. But it will be cleansed and purged of corruption and the corrupt governors, false priests, and blasphemers will be thrown down.
I do not believe in Mormonism out of ignorance or blind faith, nor should anyone. You must find out for yourself what is truth. When you discover truth, no matter how you find it, doubt will not exist in your mind, and to deny the truth you would have to deny your own existence. That is how I feel, I know with a certainty that God exists and feel that this is true in the same feeling I know that I exist as I am. It did not come from someone telling me so, man can lie and create fantasies that sound appealing, but God cannot lie. Prayer in faith, with at least a desire to believe, will lead you to undeniable truth.
I am not controlled through the religion. I can very well choose not to follow the church. My religion is a path I choose to walk. I can stray from it and often do through laziness and temptation. But I am always welcomed back, and I return gladly. I know both sides, and prefer to follow God rather than be carried away through lust and passions. I prefer it because the blessings are greater and far out way the benefits of the other road.
We do not just follow the Bible, if that is what you are denoting from "some book written... 1700 years ago." We believe in truth where ever truth may be found. But the basic truths never change and whether it was written thousands of years ago or today, it will never change. History repeats itself and the nature of humanity has always been the same. One is that we constantly seek ease and invent things to make things easier. But just because our technology is advanced and fashions of governments, clothes, and language are different, it does not mean that truths taught thousands of years ago have changed.
But events and situations do differ. Instead of famine like Joseph of Egypt, we have depressions and recessions. Instead of floods of Noah, we have global warming and pollution. Instead of slavery by a wicked Pharaoh like Moses, we have oppressive and greedy politicians. Although the style has changed, we can relate issues of past civilizations to solve our own problems.
To address us more specifically, God did not leave us with just one book, but gives us more all the time. We believe in a living prophet of God, like Moses or Abraham. We believe in living apostles, like Peter, James, John, and Paul. They speak to us just as Moses did to his people in his days, or Noah did in his. Though the principles have not changed, different instructions are given now. For example, our prophet a few years ago warned us about getting into debt. He constantly warned us to get out of debt as soon as possible and to not live beyond your means. Well, many ignored him and we fell into our current recession due to the housing crisis, caused by that very reason, from people not getting out of debt and spending more that they had.
Even Joseph Smith in the 18340s warned against civil war that would start in South Carolina. People rejected and ignored him, and a civil war erupted only a couple decades later. Prophets still warn us today, to protect the family, to save up emergency food storage, to be active and serve others, and much more.
|
Do you have any statistics that shows that magical underwear protects you? Also, how do you defend the clearly racist teachings of the Mormon church, the whole ideology seems as appologism for the genocide of native Americans and suppression of blacks.
|
Hey. At least you proved me that it makes no sense trying to prove you being wrong or me being right. If you have set your mind firmly on something and truly believe yourself to believe in it, nobody can change that. And who cares how the world and reality came to be anyhow?
What matters is this moment. As long as your religion or beliefs make you a better man, I don't care what you believe or who is right. Live as you wish and let others live theirs. Conserve the environment and try to leave something for your children as well. Other than that, have as much fun as you can while living on this planet :-)
|
I don't think there is any type of god, but I do believe that religion is good for the structure of the world by giving people good moral values. There is too much evidence for me personally, historically, and scientifically that a god does not exist despite the fact that I used to believe in the Christian God.
This will probably spark into a heated spiritual debate about who's right and who's wrong about religion, because both sides want to prove that they aren't idiots for their beliefs. Unfortunately both sides turn out to be so stubborn and persistent that they look like they need counselling :/
I would personally change the topic or avoid deep conversations entirely....
|
Do you have any statistics that prove what you say. What is your source of these things anyways. Never have mormons supported racism, never. In fact, other residents in Missouri in Joseph Smith's day drove the mormons out, fearing the Missouri would become a free state due to the growing number of mormons there. Joseph Smith ran for presidency as well and offered a solution to slavery, and was shortly assassinated afterwards.
We most certainly do not have any prejudice towards Native Americans. The Book of Mormon is their history and heritage. We have a scripture that says that they will into a great and delightful people, that it is one of the signs that Chirst will come.
As to the matter of the "magical underwear," that issue is entirely personal and sacred and is not to be used for something as trivial as "statistics." All I can say is that it is an outward symbol of an inward promise to God. Whatever happens do to that covenant of protection and guidance, from evil both physical and spiritual, is to remain between me and God alone and not to be wasted on the faithless.
|
I smell Cobra's beedynezz coming in this thread.
|
Wow... did I read that block of text right? We have a member of the Church of Moron in the house?
I always thought it's existence was a myth, I never talked to somebody that actually admitted they were part of that special type of crazy. Even when talking about religious loons and crazies one must be in owe at the Moron "Church", besides that do we really need another thread like this, everybody knows how this will continue. We provide proof and the nuts provide prophecies and voodoo mysticism from their "Holy" Books, of whichever variety.
|
ah, i remember doing about the Mormons in history, its about, erm, Joseph Smith forming the Mormons after an angel told him to dig up some gold books that no-one but himself can see. then he had to go and re-bury the books. real believable -.-.
That Joseph Smith was a rascal!
|
wow ... Cobra is on! and is speaking truth...
|
I am willing to believe that there is a "God", as soon as I personally see proof of it. But, Churches and Religions were made by men, just like us. Most of what is thought there came from the minds of other men, and that is why I don't believe in a certain "religion". Excuse my use of the Bible as an example, it is a book and was at one time written by different men(or women too). Then, throughout the ages that book has been redefined and rewritten. So, any of the "new" bibles are not the original and have a higher chance of being fake.. or maybe they are the TRUE bible that "god" meant to bring us... or not. So I do not believe in any church.. don't get me started on the accidents that happen in them.
So, because religions are simply the sayings of other men, I will not be religious. But because there are so many things left unanswered and because it would make me feel better, I will sometimes believe in the existence of a "higher" being.
|
I too am Mormon, and will personally go to anyone's house to spread the glorious religion.
|
i dont believe in God. its like more inner people stuff, for some God brings strenght in hard times and so on....
|
Oh I'm sorry, did I say Mormon? I meant to say I believe in sticking my head in a top hat, but whats the difference really? :)
|
|
fix for rev
|
Thanks Babe, My Opera fails me :(
|
Thanks Babe, My Opera fails me :(
|
rofl rev.. changing your mind every minute ;(
|
That assumes he has a mind to change! :>
|
|
oh snap... this is from the book of mormon
Alma 3: 6 "And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men."
how come mormon's wouldn't let black people into their church before 1978? how come polygammy used to be allowed? how come whenever some weird thing wrong with the mormon church is pointed out someone happens to have a revelation saying that's not right anymore?
|
and what faith are you, nero, and what good do you do for anybody?
have you read the whole book of mormon, that scripture is taken out of context. The bible mentioned that Cain's seed was turned dark too. So what, its not a terrible curse to have dark skin. In the book of moromn, when the Lamanites overcame the traditions of their fathers, they became better than the Nephites (the white guys). If anything, since the white guys, the Nephites, were utterly wiped out because they were so bad, it would show that dark people are more favored by God.
Also, there were blacks in the church since 1830. So your information is inaccurate and you are flat out wrong.
Polygamy was allowed several times in the history of the world, and it only lasted in the church for fifty years, mostly to care for the hundreds of widows whose husbands were killed by bigotry an persecutors just like you. Back in those days, a widow would be as good as dead with no ties to anyone and no support for her and her children. God has only called for Polygamy when it was absolutely necessary, as with Jacob, Abraham, or Moses. And that's how it was in the 1830s. As soon as it wasn't necessary for God's work to have it, He commanded the people to go back to one man and one wife.
And for your last question, why don't you give an example, because I doubt you have a real one.
Why don't you ask a question that matters, and not ask questions to insult and slander a faith that does more good than you will ever come to know.
|
"The Mormon Church does not believe, nor does it teach, that the Negro
is an inferior being. Mentally, and physically, the Negro is capable of
great achievement, as great and in some cases greater than the
potentiality of the white race. He can become a lawyer, a doctor, a
scientist, and he can achieve great heights." - Joseph Smith
(Deseret News, Church Section)
|
It is my right to believe what I want. I have that God given right, as do you all. I am not the perfect Saint, but I know that God does exist. He is as real as you or me. I know that as a fact. What you choose to believe in your own mind is your own right, and I will not question it nor will I insult it.
But for those of you that do insult on forums and blogs perhaps do so believing that you are protected behind an alias. Perhaps you do it out of ignorance and know not what the Church of Jesus Christ has done since its restoration in 1830. The church has issued no violence against others for beliefs, called for no crusades or genocides, and for all of these years, the church continues to grow ever stronger and larger.
"no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may
rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but
the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it
has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every
country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be
accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done." - Joseph Smith
Time will prove which one of us is right.
I made this form on request of others who were curious and wanted to know more, not to argue and be slandered and spit upon. If I ever meet you face to face, I would like to see if you would still say as despicable and prejudice comments then. Until then, you are nothing but a coward shivering behind your digital anonymity.
|
as i said in the other post i am an excommincated mormon and have a fair knowledge of their beliefs.
the mormon church contends that the native american people are essentially from israel and travelled across a millienium ago. thus thye are very much in favour of native americans.
i have seen comments about black people from decades ago but i cant comment on it being anything but hearsay since i aint that old!
mormon church also talks about different ways to god etc but this is the "best way" according to them...plus as he said in the other post there is 3 heavens effectively so if you want to go to the real cool one, become a mormon and marry a mormon.
polygamy was outlawed by the church in the 1800s but as rightly said jews and arabs practiced it since the dawn of man. i live in uzbekistan and everyone has at least a second wife or girlfriend here. polygamy is not, howver, removed from pearl of great price which means many of the splinter groups and reformed church of jesus christ of latter day saints, often sitll practice it.
basically if you want a group of people to survive, particularly when the men are off fighting all the time and dying(and you probably wont find more patriotic americans than mormons-they even believe eden was in america before the flood)...then polygamy makes sense. a part of their religion is to have a lot of children to bring as many people from the pre-existance as possible. polygamy certainly helps that but it was outlawed later 1800s and any member of the manin church would be kicked for doing it now(more like an urban myth these days).
another thing about the mormon church is they believe in aliens. ask about kolob and other places that are mentioned. finding aliens would be no surprise to mormons but a big challenge to mainstream christianity.
we all hate them knocking on our door, except the cute canadian girls, but it is always useful to know what they actually believe.
|
|
"The church has issued no violence against others for beliefs, called
for no crusades or genocides, and for all of these years, the church
continues to grow ever stronger and larger."
Well, the Mormons used to massacre settlers from Europe and blame it on native Americans.
|
|
|
This thread is going to end very very badly
|
I don't care anymore. The guys on here are complete pigs. I'm not about to stoop down to their level. It just proves whose the better man, the one trying to explain his side, or the other just giving out random comments of "fag" this and "troll" that. Most of them can't put a complete sentence down. Pardon the pun, but to hell with them. Let them harass me all they want, I won't read this forum anymore.
It's done you godless imps.
|
It's done you godless imp[erator]s.
|
Well that was easier than I expected.
|
|
Thats only cause Peng and Cobra think they are cool because they can put people down and troll the forums.
I was saying it was gonna end badly because its like the left hand trying to tell the right hand what to do. No one here is right or wrong. Belief is a state of mind. If you believe you believe you dont you dont. You cant have a real discussion about religion because of that because everyone thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong for their religion which they arent. Its wrong to even think you are better then anyone else.
Sorry if that doesnt make sense :S
|
"Its wrong to even think you are better then anyone else. "
What an absolutely moronic thing to say, not only do I think I'm better, I know I'm better and I'm not making any apologies about it nubtard.
|
|
|
Exactly a million times and the same outcome.
|
cause there is million r3tards like your or like that shadowbane.
wow put in one sentence me and cokbra... forgot Rev?
Cokbra could make his own religion... mhm thats not a bad idea..
|
| [Top] Pages: 1 |
