Forums / In game politics / Good vs Evil

Good vs Evil
15:41:30 Nov 29th 14 - Mr. Barny:

Hey guys, I wanted to throw an idea out there and see if there is interest as a community in doing a Good vs Evil map on one of the worlds. I've been away for a while and the game looks like it's continued it's steady decline, and rather than sit here and complain about it we as a community can do something about it and have fun at the same time,

We have to take action and organize something ourselves.

There are a lot of problems with VU right now and we just chose to accept and bitch about most of them without actually doing anything, but let me just throw a couple of them out there for reference that we can all agree with:

The game is not conducive towards new players, they dont know anyone in a team based game to team up with in kingdoms and a lot of them flounder and die early then just quit the game

The mechanics and gameplay can get stale for some people

Veterans tend to play with other veterans and it can be hard for new players to break into 10+ year social circles

New players cannot compete with veterans who are active

The worlds are not balanced and the kingdom dynmaics are stale on some worlds

We can solve some of these issues immediately by playing a Good vs Evil world but we need to organize it as a community if there is enough interest and talk about how to go about implementing this with one another, and if there is enough interest we can talk to Zeta about autoshuffling and forcing one of two kingdoms (good or evil) on one of the worlds

I brought the idea up to the VU skype group and there is interest, so I wanted to see what the community as a whole thought as many people do not use the VU skype.

Good vs Evil would also present a good opportunity to bring in friends and new players alike if we force balanced teams via captains or shuffling

15:50:35 Nov 29th 14 - Bran (Mr. Barn):

ill take part in a good v evil, but id much prefer we arranged it on a map other than fant. i suggest doing it on zeta since it has walls and merges

16:12:00 Nov 29th 14 - Mr. Barny:

I think that doing it outside of Fantasia would also be a good idea because Fantasia might not end soon and it gives people who might come into the game through the Good vs Evil (seriously we need to get some new players and we're going to have to do it ourselves) a chance to play on the 'competitive' world and to play VU as it was meant to be experienced.

Here are some ideas about how to go about implementing this before we take this to Zeta or the suggestion forums with a poll (because we all know thats the only thing that Zeta ever checks for):

1. Make it so everyone autojoins either good or evil and they dont get to chose which one.

2. Put it on a world that isnt Fantasia so that people can enjoy the game in it's 'vanilla' form on the top world

3. We need to bring in new players and friends

Those are the basic things that everyone seems to agree with but we still have to see if people are interested in this and discuss some of the finer details

16:14:21 Nov 29th 14 - Fire Lord Crazy (Fire Lord The Immolation Death Bear):

Sounds Great,

Just a Side note -
I have never been a fan of these skype things either, i don't think new players either. What happened to the good old communication here, I do Remember using Msn, but that was different. 

16:16:33 Nov 29th 14 - Mr. Hanky The Long of Gingers:

Love the idea, just throwing a few things out there.

How do you determine leadership?

How do you prevent players blatantly feeding or just purposely do stuff that allows the other kingdom to take an advantage, (ie leaving a blocker and allowing the enemy {a friend} to raid a core)? Does this come under a moral responsibility of the other kingdoms leadership?

A tbl/reed relationship getting in the way of just basic kingdom operations (I would hope everyone can get over rivalries but I know some can't)?

I agree with bran about zeta, merges walls sounds great. 
Although I have a bad feeling that you will still only get those vets who play the world as most new players don't seem to be that active on the forums. So can we be sure they read it?

16:16:44 Nov 29th 14 - Bran (Mr. Barn):

i agree with all that barny says and will take part in it. we do need permission and cooperation from the leaders of the three mant kds first though.

and firelord, youre right alot of vuers dont want to use skype. we need to be more active in vu forums. perhaps we could revive the old irc channel, would that be more appealing than skype?

16:29:05 Nov 29th 14 - Mr. Isisare Good People:

Skype > irc. Not everyone kept their computers on overnight which irc required you to do.

As for mantrax, it's possible one of the worst worlds to do it on due to the 3 kingdoms. All 3 kingdoms are probably the 3 oldest active kingdoms in the game. And it's really quite a balanced world in form of who wins (Fw may have the upper hand in most cases)

16:33:46 Nov 29th 14 - Bran (Mr. Barn):

mant is also the soonest to reopen. i think time is of the essence, fant dant afford to wait for new players to come along and a good v evil era, if succesful, will attract new players and encourage them to stay

04:33:12 Nov 30th 14 - LukeTheDuke (Mr. Fergus Mor):

I would like to take part in this. As to Hanky's concerns, you can't fix what other players will do. Aside from getting kicked from the kingdom and cities taken, you can't really do much. But that is the nature of human beings... And we can't ever change that. I think with the few minor downsides mentioned by Hanky, it would be more than worth a shot.

07:11:12 Nov 30th 14 - Mr. Hanky The Long of Gingers:

I would imagine you can't kick players in a world where you get automatically shuffled into 2 kingdoms (presuming we get zeta to shuffle evenly) 

09:33:48 Nov 30th 14 - Mr. Barny:

I don't think that there should be an option to kick players in Good vs Evil, it doesnt seem like there is a good reason for it and no one who is playing on the map should have the power to do that.

We should decide whether or not we want there to be the option to leave kingdoms. If you forced people to autojoin either Good or Evil randomly and allowed people to leave then people who leave good or evil wouldnt be able to join Good or Evil again anyways, but allowing for that creates a third faction/soloplayer/non-allied neutral element (might be cool, might not be) but also opens up for the door for abuse in much the same way kicking people does as well as allowing for people to collude together with other vets that they would normally play with in a kingdom, but it's still worth considering.

What do you guys think about it?

12:25:52 Nov 30th 14 - Mr. Hanky Panky:

I'm down for a game of good vs evil and zeta map with the walls and merged sounds fun :)

12:49:45 Nov 30th 14 - Mr. Bambix II:

Determining leadership is easy, that will come naturally in situations like this. Just make it so people can not leave their team and go solo. Deleting your character should only be possible the first day when you can see who you play with.

And it doesn't have to be good vs evil, I'd settle for blue vs red or spy vs spy ;-)

Or try to work in "objectives" that will give a team a score, like taking (strong) neutral cities, controlling a certain part of the map etc.

13:14:36 Nov 30th 14 - Bran (Mr. Barn):

is it already implied by 'good v evil' that the races on each team have to be good or evil? i wasnt sure if it was just a theme for kd names or not. i would like it if evil team could only be orc, trolls but it does leave them with only 2 races while good side has 4. and evil would be forced to use orc as their magic user.

what do you guys think the chances are of zeta making a new evil race? :p

13:43:54 Nov 30th 14 - Ms. Hammie The Brave:

halflings aren't good. they're greedy little thieves.

14:23:10 Nov 30th 14 - Woodeh (Mr. Woodeehh):

The landing would have to be 'fixed' ie good ne corner, evil sw corner so both teams don't drop in the same place and it becomes an oop mess.

We could have in theory 4 teams, asin if it was lotr themed, mordor, sauron, rohan, dwarfs so kds sizes are more manigable?

16:37:13 Nov 30th 14 - Sir Vytautas Didysis:

don't make to much shit.... Simple just send messages to all kingdoms leaders and vices, they send to members and rest players about Good and Evil match. Write more in forums. Randomly join evil or good sides, choice two main leaders and enjoy game. Simple. 

16:45:05 Nov 30th 14 - Binh (Mr. Binh The Farmer):

Two kd each set on automatically accept new members. Whoever run the kd tactically can be decided on by the players in that kd once all the players join. I wonder if this will evenly randomly distribute the players?

03:50:49 Dec 1st 14 - Mr. Fluff:

I think we shouldn't over-complicate this with fixed races or landings.

10:37:37 Dec 1st 14 - Mr. Hanky The Long of Gingers:

I was going to say something about fixed point landings but there are a lot of people that love oop wars (me included) 

I don't like the idea of good races vs bad races, won't be balanced. And if halfers were consider evil (they steal food, they're criminals!) if a oop happened then evil will dominate. 

14:31:34 Dec 1st 14 - Woodeh (Mr. Woodeehh):

Zeta has restarted, are we doing this now?

14:37:00 Dec 1st 14 - Bran (Mr. Barn):

itll probs need the cooperation of existing kds on the map.

15:46:30 Dec 1st 14 - Mr. Isisare Good People:

I think it is far too unorganised to do it now. I'm happy to start it now but I don't think enough people are ready (some people may have to free up a character once another world ends)

05:57:05 Dec 2nd 14 - Mr. Barny:

Not enough people are ready for it right now IMO, settle time is less than 24 hours away on Zeta and some people would probably want to be able to prepare where they land by marching before they settle for an event like this.

I like the idea of having non-fixed landings, if good and evil landed on top of one another I think it might end up being more fun than if they were in opposite corners but half the fun of randomly shuffled kingdoms would be random landing zones.

Unless anyone has a really strong argument for fixed races or landings (if so than please share, there might be some good points you can raise!) than I'd rather steer away from them for the sake of the simplicity.

15:21:53 Dec 2nd 14 - Bran (Mr. Barn):

ive landed on zeta. 11 ticks til can make a city. am not keen on being leader tho since am already leader on fant. im kdless atm so if someone wants to make a good or evil kd ill apply

15:57:29 Dec 2nd 14 - Mr. Barny:

Do you guys want to do this on Zetamania? The settle time is 11 ticks from now and it sounds like not a whole lot of people are prepared. I suspect Mantrax will end soonish but I don't know or think that they are on board with it.

16:02:13 Dec 2nd 14 - Mr. Isisare Good People:

Im on the too soon wagon

16:09:51 Dec 2nd 14 - Mr. Barny:

I think the best worlds would probably be Valhalla or Nirvanna. Valhalla is a 50% world which wont matter for good vs evil due to how 50% works with kds, and Valhalla has a pretty active community already so there would be lots of players (many new players but good vs evil is perfect for new players). We would need the KD leaders there to be on board with the idea though, but I could message them. The downside is that it doesnt look like Valhalla might be ending soon so I have no clue when it will be over.

Nirvanna is also a good world that we could do it on, it has a small handful of players whom im almost certain would be interested in Good vs Evil and I think that the world might end in the next 3-7 RL days but I could be wrong.

If we wait for valhalla or nirvanna then it gives us time to message Zeta for anything we might need (because we know he might be slow about a response), lets everyone who wants to participate be aware, and I would be able to bring in a handful of new players that I know from other games and one or two of them might end up sticking with the game.

I did make a character on Zetamania though to test something so I'm on the world, I didnt intend to actively play the character though.

16:15:19 Dec 2nd 14 - Alrisaia (Ms. Lyrelai):

i just landed on zeta is this happening?

16:15:48 Dec 2nd 14 - Binh (Sir Bah):

valhalla is a bad choice as only guide, new players, or people that pay zeta for upgrade account can join those world.

16:17:01 Dec 2nd 14 - Mr. Ebola For Christmas:

I say nirvana is the best option. Also gives us plenty of time to organise it and let zeta prepare.

16:40:43 Dec 2nd 14 - Alrisaia (Ms. Lyrelai):

Valhalla is open to anyone.

16:42:20 Dec 2nd 14 - Binh (Mr. Binh The Farmer):

Oh you're right. I didn't realize that one of the 50% world is open to everyone. I'm so nub :D I've always thought that 50% world = new player world lol

17:46:32 Dec 2nd 14 - Mr. Barny:

Nub Binh should consider playing on the lesser worlds.

I'd say that we wait for Valhalla or Nirvanna for Good vs Evil as it seems that at least 2 people arent ready for Zeta.

I did make a character on Zeta though like I mentioned above in case we did end up choosing that world, so if anyone wants to do a two or three man kingdom thing there that might be cool. I don't think everyone on that world is in on a theme nor do I care to actually organize any kind of 2-man or 3-man KD thing AND Good vs Evil, but there are probably enough people on that world right now playing in 3 man kingdoms already for it to work with very little work.

Message me if you want to make a 3 man KD with me now, settle time on that world is 8 ticks from now. We probably  won't be able to actually land together but we can just say that that's part of the fun for our kingdom!

18:16:25 Dec 2nd 14 - Bran (Mr. Barn):

im on the map but i dont want to play too many chars so will sit out

18:17:29 Dec 2nd 14 - Princess Aisha:

Why don't you do the same thing you did when you planned the Starta no kingdoms everyone for themselves world, and that idea stayed there for a long time, and its still there. You had people sign up for it, to see if people would play that, and as you put in the thread, there were even some rules:

You should do the same for this idea, Good vs Evil would get much more people I think, its a great idea and it could be fun. Best would be to get people to sign up who would play, so we have an idea how many would play...

VU has such a messed up spawning system so I think everyone (or kingdom leaders) should start right when the world opens so they have 48 hours, for example 2 people start, one that is up for oop and one that would like to farm. People then join the two kingdoms and they decide where they want to be dropped, in the area where oop war is closer or further back for farming chance.

Also, when you have the list of people who would play, you could even make teams right away, so you avoid those people that hate each other, maybe even make leaders pick their teams, but make it so that the number would have to be equal.

18:38:25 Dec 2nd 14 - Mr. Barny:

That's pretty much the idea, but I wanted to hammer out the basic concepts and make sure people were on board with it first.before I make signups.

I think at this point there is a pretty clear interest in doing a Good vs Evil so I'll make a signup thread later tomorrow with the rules/details but I want to leave it open to discussion for a while longer in case anyone had any thoughts or ideas.

20:03:05 Dec 2nd 14 - Alrisaia (Lady Alrisaia):

I'll form a kd with you barny. I'm Lyrelai on zeta.

21:02:45 Dec 2nd 14 - HorusPanic (Lord Horus):

i'll sign up, a captains draft would be nice if we could pull it off

05:40:08 Dec 3rd 14 - Mr. Barny:

I'm going to post a sign-up thread in around 12 hours, so if anyone has any final thoughts, suggestions, or ideas then let me know.

I'll let the Zetamania character die but it looks like there are actually people on that world.

How do you guys want to do the teams for the Good vs Evil? I'd say that that's the only thing we need to finalize before we have everything hammered out. After I post the signup thread we could randomize the list of players and then make sure that the teams are fair, or we could do a captains draft, etc.

12:36:11 Dec 3rd 14 - Penguin (Clown Nuclear Penguin):

sounds good for me

22:49:03 Dec 3rd 14 - Jack Daniels The drunk (Dragonlord Jack Daniels of Roc):

i'm game for a captains draft or randomized but i'm game for this and if we want to use zetamania for the world i'm a kd leader there and i'm pretty sure i could talk to the other leaders to free the map up for an era 

11:03:15 Dec 4th 14 - Mr. Barny:

Alright I am messaging the KD leaders on Valhalla and Nirvanna right now to let them know that this is going on so both they themselves and their KD members can either sign up or be aware that it's happening.

I was going to make a separate thread to coordinate anything or that required involvement from Zeta but I think we are good to go- we play on either Nirvana or Valhalla, whichever ends first. I'm starting the signups now, I'll assume that posting in this thread before this point was purely to discuss the idea and doesn't mean you are signed up, so the list starts with myself and those that have made it clear that they will play via skype:

1. Barny
2. Pure
3. Bran

11:47:34 Dec 4th 14 - Penguin (Clown Nuclear Penguin):

1. Barny
2. Pure
3. Bran

4. Penguin

13:05:16 Dec 4th 14 - Fire Lord Crazy (Fire Lord The Immolation Death Bear):

1. Barny
2. Pure
3. Bran
4. Penguin
5. Fire Lord

13:10:49 Dec 4th 14 - Bran (Mr. Barn):

now we just need some good players :D

13:51:51 Dec 4th 14 - Mr. Hanky The Long of Gingers:

Isn't that why you're playing Hodor?

14:10:15 Dec 4th 14 - Legend (I am Legend):

1. Barny
2. Pure
3. Bran
4. Penguin
5. Fire Lord

6. Legend

14:18:25 Dec 4th 14 - Woodeh (Mr. Endgame):

2. Pure
3. Bran
4. Penguin
5. Fire Lord

6. Legend
7. Woody 

14:18:25 Dec 4th 14 - Woodeh (Mr. Endgame):

2. Pure
3. Bran
4. Penguin
5. Fire Lord

6. Legend
7. Woody 

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