|08:12:18 Oct 20th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad The Cruel):|
How about having some fun while rating races. Anyone is welcome to rate, just try not to be subjective - if you like only one race. There is no right and wrong. You can revise your rating, if you want to.
Rules: each races is to be rated by giving points from 1 to 10 for OOP, Mid Era and End Era performance.
Here is my rating:
I comment my rating to give an insight to those willing to join the fun. You don't need to comment yours, unless you want to.
Overall, I find troll slightly stronger than Orc, because most Orcs can be weaker in Mid Era than Most Trolls.
OOP, I believe Orc is the strongest, closely followed by the Human and Halfer. Elf is the weakest.
I find most races except Orc and Elf strong Mid Era.
I find Trolls and Farmed Elves the strongest races End Era and the Halfer the weakest race End Era.
|15:09:40 Oct 20th 20 - Konstant (The Ancient Arthas Menethil):|
I would suggest expanding the options like so:
To me those results make sense^. Humans are an "all around" race, so they rank higher on average across the board.
Orcs are really strong OOP and really strong Late, with a mid latency, but due to AOTD are fairly even with lower lvls of naz in the mid/late period.
Trolls gain steam as the era goes on. They have a weak econ, but once it gets farmed up by mid-era they begin being a powerhouse.
Halfers reach peak earlier, and then wane.
Elves are really later era specialists.
Dwarves just kinda suck.
|16:17:29 Oct 20th 20 - Captain Joebob The Penguin Slayer:|
Iíd give dwarf a little more credit since their income can hit like 6-7m easily. So maybe a 6 at the end because they can field like 600k axemen. But yes dwarfs basically suck at the end.
Iíd give human a higher rating up till late. The cats defense at 20 sucks so upkeep on knights is superrr expensive but they are an explosive race till the end but still able to keep up so maybe like 7 at the KD but till then super competitive with whoever.
Trolls are super slow in the beginning but after about mid just almost canít be stopped. IMO probably the most powerful race if allowed to farm. Probably a good set of numbers for them probably would have them at a 10 at the end. 200k zerks is hard to beat.
Orc is super effective early but after the Gia they suck till the Naz get rolling. Then they pick back up to the end being the OP race late. If they have AOTD accessible. So like 10 early, 6 mid, and a 10 late.
Halflings are also super good early with the ponies and slingers but the advents get costly and they dive rapidly. Like a 8 oop and a 5 late.
Elf is a super strong race late but ineffective early. Ghosts being 2/1 they have to literally just survive off archers while building Econ. Not mid-late the AMís begin get OP being the cheapest lvl 5 but depends on magic sciences being probably the best late era if ran completely right. Like a 2 early and a 10 late.
|00:10:41 Oct 21st 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad The Cruel):|
Interesting how other people see races.
My 'Konstant's design' ranking:
I've tried to have at least a 10 for each era period, then moving down from the '10'.
|00:12:28 Oct 21st 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad The Cruel):|
If we get enough tables, may be we do an average at the end
|00:31:30 Oct 21st 20 - Lord Jellybean (Mr. Crixus Prime):|
My perspective :) an edit of glads
|09:57:48 Oct 21st 20 - Waifu Blah Blah The Brutal:|
More time frames are better.
-Dwarves are only higher than trolls oop and early because of recent op increase to swords.
-Halfling are slightly higher than dwarves late era because unless you are looking for a higher op blob to sit in a town, I find large pony armies slightly more useful.
-Orcs are pretty punch-able mid era, but come good after a month because they are spending less on army upkeep than elves/trolls/humans, which they can use to train naz and also easier aotd. The gap increases the longer the era goes on.
-Humans are lower than elves/trolls late era because they usually need to carry some knights to make up for cata defense and they need to be more careful about aotd.
|10:20:53 Oct 21st 20 - Gladiatorul (Mr. Glad Tester):|
Interesting - you've given Human almost same as to the Orc.
|11:03:33 Oct 21st 20 - Mr. Oenomaos:|
As a note, I think the stats are a lot different if you don't have a mage to support you in the case of the aotd races, troll and human would lose quite a lot of stats for the late era.
|11:26:37 Oct 21st 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):|
How many MUs would you carry with you going against a strong mage with 100k AMs or with the Equivalent OP/DP in Nazzies (assume 17k), Bogdan?
|12:32:32 Oct 21st 20 - Mr. Oenomaos:|
Against a strong mage I'd say at least 250k mus as orc, 150k as elf if you want to heavily discourage rof.
|15:12:10 Oct 21st 20 - Waifu Blah Blah The Brutal:|
"Interesting - you've given Human almost same as to the Orc. "
In a way I guess. Both are good oop. Both are average in the 13-20 day column for different reasons (orc training expensive troops. Human finishing a 200k). Late era human is closer to troll/elf. Slower version.
"How many MUs would you carry with you going against a strong mage with 100k AMs or with the Equivalent OP/DP in Nazzies (assume 17k), Bogdan?"
Depends on what the strong mage has ^^
|01:29:12 Oct 22nd 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad The Cruel):|
Both are average in the 13-20 day column for different reasons (orc training expensive troops. Human finishing a 200k)
I looked in a different way when I gave Human 10 points for 13-20 days: 1 vs 1 combat situation with any other race. There I found any race could win aside from the Orc.
|19:05:48 Oct 22nd 20 - Konstant (The Ancient Arthas Menethil):|
|22:52:44 Oct 22nd 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):|
Konstant, I think you underestimate troll OOP. Because some trolls farm their way up to training Zerks, even when they are in OOP war.
To answer your question, if the war would be only 14 days, I would chose Human.
But the war is not that short usually, and if it becomes stalemate, then, once the Troll starts training Bersekers, he is in a better position to win.
I played OOP wars both as Human and Troll. I find Human stronger in the first 3 days, because of their 3/2 unit. However, once the troll gets Rocs rolling, the advantage is not there anymore.
The win is to be decided by cities/armories position and skill of players.
|03:21:47 Oct 23rd 20 - Konstant (The Ancient Arthas Menethil):|
I suppose in my limited time playing I have yet to see an effective Troll, both OOP and early era.
|03:47:36 Oct 23rd 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad The Cruel):|
Best way to assess it, is to try it yourself. You sound like a smart guy. Next time when you play troll, instead of waiting for Halfers and Humans to clean orc enemies from your core, try doing it with Rocs.
This will have an negative impact on your overall farming progress, though. This is why most trolls don't consider this option. But if your life depends on it, you'd have to do it.
|03:50:25 Oct 23rd 20 - Konstant (The Ancient Faceless One):|
That would kill me inside though knowing how inefficient it is.
|03:59:12 Oct 23rd 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad The Cruel):|
One year ago Glads had to fight OOP a KD made of Orcs only. Ask ex-Gladiators boys from your KD, they should remember the era.
We were 3 OOP fighters (troll, orc and dwarf), kicking 3-4 orcs. With magic help of course.We had Human, but he decided to farm longer. We didn't have a Halfer.
Another era a year back while playing against Feckers, we had 2 strong Feckers' Orcs in our core. A troll kicked one out and a Halfer kicked the other one. With magic and teamwork help of course. We had Human but he was ineffective.
So it is not that ineffective.
|04:18:00 Oct 23rd 20 - Konstant (The Ancient Mastu):|
I meant inefficient due to falling back on building econ to begin training zerks.
|04:27:29 Oct 23rd 20 - Gladiatorul (Mr. Glad Tester):|
Well any race that fights OOP and gains no land will have its economies affected, not just the Troll.
|04:34:50 Oct 23rd 20 - Gladiatorul (Mr. Glad Tester):|
We have only 5 tables. If we get, say, 10 more, I'll make an average.
|05:04:40 Oct 23rd 20 - Mr. Elfontop:|
It's not gonna be accurate though. Clearly people are making different assumptions.
|05:10:58 Oct 23rd 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad The Cruel):|
For fun. Still the overall shape shall be close to reality.
I might exclude from statistics those that fall away by more than 2-3 STDEV from the mean.
|08:54:51 Oct 23rd 20 - Mr. Kool:|
i played troll for years.. my income was never good as i went military power early usually as fast as i can get to lvl 7. i took risks like not building gts even in an oop war.. even now i hardly make them.. but my armies were always strong oop and i simply had to go out and attack..
i never tried to do the farmed up troll style play.. it seemed to work for me though i had extreme activity.. mid era my armies were still top or near the top though late era... unless i was having a good one id usually get overriun... though my kd mates covered that.. i dont play troll no more my biggest gripe was, and is it has no speedy units...
|09:16:24 Oct 23rd 20 - Waifu Blah Blah The Brutal:|
Logging in 20 ticks a day helps. ^^
|09:29:36 Oct 23rd 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad The Cruel):|
Why not try the rating table Kool?
|13:07:49 Oct 23rd 20 - Bran (Mr. Bran):|
This thread is incredibly racist
|23:51:27 Oct 23rd 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad The Cruel):|
you are right Bran; hope Dwarfs won't sue us.
|11:39:18 Oct 25th 20 - Jack Daniels The drunk (Mr. Treasure Chest):|
|23:39:01 Oct 25th 20 - Exalted Tester Salamon:|
When this is done, can someone take the average of everyones scores and post the vu general consensus of vu race ratings?
|23:46:26 Oct 25th 20 - Exalted Tester Salamon:|
|00:26:22 Oct 26th 20 - Gladiatorul (Mr. Glad Tester):|
We need 8 more tables; I'll do the average and you can post it anywhere you want.
|10:02:59 Oct 26th 20 - Bran (Mr. Bran):|
|16:50:22 Oct 26th 20 - Captain Joe The Forsaken:|
Yeah sal Iím gonna have to disagree with your power scale of human and halfer.
|17:27:42 Oct 26th 20 - Exalted Tester Salamon:|
I'm including the mage potential as well in this.
|17:27:42 Oct 26th 20 - Exalted Tester Salamon:|
|18:00:45 Oct 26th 20 - Captain Joe The Forsaken:|
Then you gotta throw human mage in it too. With the stone to gold monopoly. And cheeper magic sciences. Only bonus is cheeper building
|18:39:10 Oct 26th 20 - Percy (Sir Tirion Fordring):|
Instead of factoring maging into this scale, why not have one set of tables for fighting (including battlemaging) and one set of tables for pure maging?
I will post a set up here later, would be fun to see how this all compares. This was a good idea Glad :)
|22:24:43 Oct 26th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):|
Let's not argue about someone else's rating. Everyone has different experiences playing this game.
Also, I haven't mentioned, but I thought it is obvious. Any ability of the race, including it's magic ability as a battle mage shall be included in the assessment of that race.
|22:31:34 Oct 26th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):|
We are not assessing dedicated magician abilities here, though.
Say, you are an Battle Elf fighting with AMs. Of course you have a huge magic advantage compared with any other race, including a Battle Mage Human.
|22:44:41 Oct 26th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):|
If you find assessing easier, you can potentially assume 2 different scenarios:
1. One race against another - 2 players alone in the world;
2. One race supported by a magician each - 4 players alone in the world
Say I compare troll with orc under first scenario.
a) Fight starts at OOP ends 3 days after OOP
Orc is better than troll
b) Fight starts 4 days after OOP ends 12 Days after OOP.
If it's early, Orc can still defeat the Troll. The more times passes the stronger the troll getting.
And so on...
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