Forums / In game politics / Mantrax Age 5
| Mantrax Age 5 | ||||||||||||
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Well that's scary that your talking to yourself. | ||||||||||||
why? I do it as well.. I love the deep conversations with me, I suprise myself everytime ^^ | ||||||||||||
:o You guys are scary. Isn't there anybody in your live to talk 2? | ||||||||||||
Offcourse there is, but they aren't smart enough and don't develop me intellectually ^^ | ||||||||||||
Kobuskan always capatalizes the first letter of a sentence. He uses commas at awkward positions. He never uses question marks or exclamations marks. All of his sentences are composed of short, concise statements. It's 3am now, I can dig for more posts to more clearly demonstrate the similarities when I wake up. I reviewed like 20+ of his posts before posting that, I think it's pretty obvious. | ||||||||||||
Kobu uses dutch english.. nuff said | ||||||||||||
I also agree with the rest. I took Barny shot pass this time. | ||||||||||||
What did i do now ? | ||||||||||||
Shhh be wevy quiet , we are huntin wabbits! | ||||||||||||
Ohhhhh, so you were the 3rd and 4th voice when I stepped outside of Point Zero for some fresh air.... you freaked me out, man! | ||||||||||||
Indeed it was ;) | ||||||||||||
Not cool, dude :( | ||||||||||||
Woops.. I accidently smacked kobu :$ sorry!! | ||||||||||||
Yes, that hurted bad, better close you doors. You never know what the cat will drag in.
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Oeps, wrong charachter, its my fant alter ego, not Infiltrator btw | ||||||||||||
And this is my third charachter. Okay, Barny, waiting on your official excuse. | ||||||||||||
Barny you're a language expert now?? What an airhead. You are so full of yourself. Stop embarassing yourself. | ||||||||||||
not dead yet | ||||||||||||
so helio is Kobu?? just kinda finding it hard to keep up with the 3 characters :P | ||||||||||||
Sorry for stealing your science last era Dropkick | ||||||||||||
Sorry, I haven't been busy lately and havent been able to keep up with the forums.
Ever since I insulted him for exp feeding, nearly every single post Kobuskan has made has been some form of slur/insult/butthurt cry directed at me. The common motive isn't why I am asserting that Infiltrator is Kobuskan, it's the common language/sentence structures. Now I know that most VU players are complete idiots- all it takes is a browse through the forums to ascertain that; so when I touch up on a complicated subject like this I don't expect everyone to be able to identify commonalities between posts, but in this scenario it is pretty damn obvious.
Fordius, Kobuskan is a big boy and doesn't need an apology for my accusations any more then I need an apology for his accusations that I use an "AOTD bug".
Soda Popinski, how many of your shitty posts do I need to shoot down before you stop trying to find a reason to insult me? I am not a language expert, but I am intelligent enough to know that there are only 2 players who have ever posted in the past 4 or 5 years who use such a distinct and identifiable writing style that I can look at their post and say "Yeah, that is definitely X".
Kobuskan, the fact that you can produce 3 different names on the VU forums by no means shows that you cannot have posted that post in Infiltrator. In fact, let me tell you why using a myriad of different names. | ||||||||||||
This is my Mantrax character. | ||||||||||||
This is my Zetamania character. So far so good, right? Damn Kobuskan, sorry, I am wrong. Your arguement has held up, and there is no way that you could have posted on Infiltrator.
Touché Kobuskan, you have bested me in a battle of wits. I concede, Infiltrator will forever remain anonymous! | ||||||||||||
Ima Infiltrator, down with FW/Dark Side/That Evil Bastard Barny... stop playing the game the way Zeta wanted it to be played! | ||||||||||||
Wait, what is this? A fourth character!? Impossible! | ||||||||||||
Damn it Noobhammer, you interupted my chain of posts! The point is, there a million ways to make a forum post with a character named Infiltrator. "Infiltrator" is an idiot, so I don't expect him to use any of the more complicated methods, but here are a few: 1. Ask a friend with a free character to do it 2. Register a new account and do it 3. Have a 3rd character who is "dead". Make a post on it, and then delete the character when you are done and make a new character. Do not spawn on the map. After making a post, delete the character and make a new one. Yeah, that's right, infinite posts with different names!
Those are just a few ways to make posts with new character names. As you can see, once again you have come up with as stupid arguement Kobuskan; the fact that you can post under 3 different names means nothing. | ||||||||||||
Oh no, I already deleted that character! The typos will be preserved forever! But like I was saying, there are only 2 players who post using that distinct and easily identifiable style. If I were to make an anonymous post, if I didn't make an effort to deliberately change the way in which I type everyone would immediately recognize that it was Barny who made the post because of the easily recognizeable way that I make posts. Based on his other actions, recent posts, and the way he dismissed it; I am fairly sure that Infiltrator is Kobuskan. Arguing about it won't accomplish much, but if you want to familiarize yourself with the way that he or anyone else types; simply use the VU forum's search feature and search for their in-game name.
With that said, we could move on to disscussing topics more relavent to Mantrax. Somone mentioned before that we could wait and see how much the exp feeding fiasco affected Mantrax this era. Even with how short the era has been, it's easy to see the direct affects of the exp feeding. All of the four players involved have been on the top 10 HoH since being fed exp, and the substantial advantage that it has given them is quite noticeable. I am actually happy that this era has been cut so short. | ||||||||||||
have to say, good effort by Barny here so far. He does make a fair arguement, and after the halfer exp feeding before I cant say I trust Kobu... | ||||||||||||
Drag me through the shit some more Barny, keep insulting me and a report to admin again to get me banned, don't forget to send prove of your accusations.. Also keep you posts a bit shorter in future, long post irritates people. | ||||||||||||
:( I can imitate you all (on the forums at least lol) and I'm the village idiiot ;) Barny delete that spare character please don't make me quit the game :p Kobu stop cheating please don't make me quit the game :p both of you stop trying to keeeeeeeeeeeeeeel me kk :p /me exits the thread still bored waiting to diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie and trying to figure out which words I need to change the spelling on so I don't get forum banned ^_^ | ||||||||||||
No Barny, You are the one with shitty accusations. And yeah, keep your posts short. As they say, An empty can makes a lot of noise. :) | ||||||||||||
Claiming that I am dragging you through the shit is a bit of a misnomer. I don't force you to exp feed or participate in all of the things you do, you do it yourself. It would be more accurate to say that you are rolling around in your own shit, and I am just pointing it out for everyone to see. | ||||||||||||
lol @ the name :p c'mon you two, kiss and make up (smells like a bromance brewing) :p nothing too graphic though please, I'm a Lady now ;) | ||||||||||||
no don't make Barny post short, i love reading Barny's super long posts about why he is right (which is always the case) and then reading the lameness of the people posting back at him. | ||||||||||||
Barny, Get off Zetamania, or join my KD. Thanks, Horus | ||||||||||||
still too long Barny. are you a politician? | ||||||||||||
I kind of like Barny from what I read from him and my ingame experience. Good work, keep it up. | ||||||||||||
Well Warsonia, my good kingdomfellow (in RoC). I had it the same way until a few days ago, when I realised that Barny/Angry Turtle/?? actually supported the use of flaws/bad balanced gameplay/unseen or (until now) unused corners of spells. All kind of use and misuse, that havn't been banned from official side (read Zeta). And as Zeta is away... well here we are. So from that moment he defended the (mis)use of the Armageddon spell, I lost my respect of him. He is nothing but an oppotunist. | ||||||||||||
OMG it talks like Barny! Are you Barny? You are Barny! I concluded that because: 1. You both refer to yourselves as I! 2. You both use the shortcut TBH! 3. You both end your sentences with a period! Gotcha! | ||||||||||||
I am well known for my short posts, poor grammar, and excessive use of abbreviations such as "tbh". You caught me Soda Popinski, that is definately the third character that I don't use. I never thought anyone would find out my true identity, I had concealed it so well! I clearly need to try a bit harder next time. At first glance I had mistaken you for an idiot, but it has become abundantly clear that you are in fact... a linguistics expert!
How could I have been such a fool!? Clearly YOU are in fact a professor of linguisitcs at Harvard of Princeton, and you were insulted by my attempt to practice your well refined craft! I had no idea that I was challenging an expert! How embarrassing, it seems that I played right into your hand. At first I thought that I was merely pointing out a common motive and extremely obvious linguistical similarities between the posts that Kobuskan and Infiltrator had made, and that you were just some idiot who composed his arguments and insults by rolling his face across the keyboard. I was wrong. | ||||||||||||
I guess I,m not surprised that you,d use sarcasm as a last resort. But Barny, are you saying that, if I wanted to become a Kobu, all I,d have to do was type like him. Awsome. :] Can you both make up and move on... pwetty pwease? If you do, I'll give you both lit dynamite as a reward :D | ||||||||||||
@ Mcmax that is news to me about barny :P i guess there is a lot i never knew even though i had played with him last in the last 2 era's in FW. | ||||||||||||
It's too obvious. He used I again to refer to himself and ended his sentences with periods. ALTHOUGH, HOWEVER, BUT he DID NOT used the abbreviation TBH this time. Probably an attempt to mislead us. A pathetic one at that. But it's too late Barny Boy! You are already caught. | ||||||||||||
dude wtf are u completely messed up in the head. Barny has fluent and very direct letters and writing and finished most of his messages with his name. that is something many other people other than barny would say | ||||||||||||
Anyway. | ||||||||||||
All I know.... is I saw the words porn and boobs.... where was this thread going while I was gone? | ||||||||||||
Sorry Mcmax, I didn't read your entire post at first, but upon reading it it must be addressed. I respect you as a player, and what you said is pretty reasonable. A reasonable concern deserves a reasonable response.
To even respond to this I would have to define ethics in the context of Visual Utopia; and doing that is extremely tricky. I had no idea that anyone frowned upon this type of use of Armageddon so greatly that they would lose respect for me for supporting it (and I do not necessarily do), so let me address the ethical concern itself. If you mean to say that I support the exploitation of unintended game mechanics for self gain, then that right there is the antithesis of everything that I actually believe. With the most recent changes to the game, some terrible bugs have been introduced, and I am sure that in due time the community will find out about them and the game will be ruined for everyone, moreso if the community does not respond to people abusing them. In the mean time, with a game of this nature and so many grey areas of gameplay and no active admin, having a community that is responsible and chastises actual cheating is extremely important for the game's health. Based on what follows, I am certain that you are referring to the the casting of Armageddon to deny other kingdoms the ability to cast the spell as an innate game flaw that I support. It's a tricky subject, so let me address it as best I can: Visual Utopia is a game full of grey areas. Some aspects of the game and exploits are cut and dry, if a player uses a bug to lock the dice in place and guarantee that a certain dice roll is produced, it is extremely clear exploitation of a bug and it should be frowned upon. It's obviously not an intended game mechanic, and it produces a clear and undeniable advantage. Then there are some bugs that have been around forever and have never been frowned upon by the community, thus they have become acceptable aspects of gameplay. If I path an army over a city that has no walls, and by time my army reaches the city it has closed gates; my army will still pass over the city. That's a bug, it's been around forever, and it has become an acceptable part of gameplay. What makes it so different from using a bug to lock the dice in place, both are clearly bugs that give a play an advantage, right? The difference is that in order to lock the dice in place you need to make an active effort to exploit the bug, and in the latter example of passing over a CWed city you need to make an active effort NOT to abuse the bug. The same logic can be used to describe why over the years the Visual Utopia community has frowned upon use of other bugs or unintended gameplay mechanics and why others have become accepted aspects of gameplay. There are other actions that someone can make in-game that are unintended and produce a clear and unfair advantage, and there is far more moral ambiguity in these types of actions any others due to the nature of the abuse. In these circumstances it usually up to the community to decide what is acceptable and what isn't, but the community doesn't always reach a consensus and the VU community in general is notoriously stupid. Here are just a few examples of things that someone can do that are clearly abuses of game mechanics that are universally seen as being unacceptable: -Arranging an exp feeding ring between a group of players -Intentionally feeding resources to a player via plunders -Intentionally feeding cities to a player Those are just three examples that come to mind when I think about things that the community always recognizes and acknowledges as being cheating. But even then, there is an element of moral ambiguity and a clear grey zone that exists in some of those actions. Take, for example, intentionally feeding cities to a player: If player is fed cities from an allied kingdom, is that acceptable? The community has always frowned upon it and considered it cheating. If a kingdom boots players to feed up one player a lot of land, is that acceptable? Once again, the community has always chastised such actions. For both of the above examples, a grey-zone can be introduced by complicating the issue a bit: If an allied kingdom loses cities to an enemy, is it acceptable for you to take their former cities back for yourself? Is it acceptable for you to feed the cities back to their original owners? There isn't really a community consensus on this. If a kingdom boots inactive players, is it acceptable to plunder/capture their land? Whenever I have any amount of leadership power within kingdoms, I make damn sure that if anyone is getting booted it happens before the era begins; and if someone has to leave mid-era then they don't get booted, and if they leave no one touches their land/resources. But in this particular instance, most of the community doesn't frown upon booting inactives or dead weight. As you can see, there are aspects of gameplay that are moral grey areas, aspects that the admin has never defined as cheating and that community does not agree upon. Now that we have defined some moral and ethical guidelines for Visual Utopia, let's look at the issue that has upset you and caused you to lose respect for me: The issue of Armageddon. The first question that we do is look for similar cases that can set a precedent by which we can judge this scenario. Are there any other spells that use similar mechanics as Armageddon that we can use to gauge the communities' opinion on this matter, or the objective ethical acceptability of casting Armageddon to control the spell? Let's look at a few spells: Anything on the Utility Spells list can be used on for advantageous purposes on someone other then yourself. You can STG an ally or cast invisibility or other useful spells, and that is considered morally acceptable behavior. While relevant, these are entirely Utility Spells of a different magnitude. Let's look at Combat Spells. What would the community think about using Teleport or Dispell Magic upon an allied kingdom? It hasn't happened enough to be an issue, so the community doesn't even have an opinion on the matter. Armageddon is a Utility Spell with a global affect. In the current state of the game, Plague is the closest thing to a Combat Spell that with such a significant affect. Would it be morally acceptable to cast a lower duration/amplitude Plague onto an ally to reduce the damage that a pre-existing Plague is doing? Once again, it hasn't happened enough to be an issue and I doubt that the community even understands plague mechanics enough for anyone to ever do something like this, or to do it effectively. What about other spells? Recently some players have complained about using AOTD and Steal Science as they are intended to be used because the spells are so powerful, but does that make using the spells ethically wrong? Whether or not casting Armageddon to "control" the spell is morally or ethically unacceptable is a grey area, there is no community consensus and it has only now become a relevant concern. You say that I support the use of flaws/imbalances, but that is simply untrue. In this instance in particular, I have said a million times that as it is; Armageddon is not properly balanced for use on Fantasia; so you cannot claim that I make decisions for my own personal benefit. I assure you that I want to see the spell changed more than anyone else. Every single era on Fantasia since the re-introduction of Armageddon has ended prematurely, and we can all agree that Armageddon is nearly impossible to stop on Fantasia in the current state of the game. If you want to read more about my opinion of the spell's current balance, you can find it in one of the books I have written in threads that address the topic specifically. Overall, I respect you as a player Mcmax, and I wouldn't want you thinking any less of me because the kingdoms that I have been a part of have used a new tactic to control a spell. I assure you that if there were ever an community consensus that using the spell to deny others the ability to cast the spell was morally or ethically wrong and/or cheating, I would make sure that it never happened again. | ||||||||||||
holy shit barney you should think about writing a novel because every argument you get in your write a chapter so | ||||||||||||
well one thing about Barny, you have to respect the amount of time and effort he puts into his posts (or at least I do). He does raise a vaild point about the use of the arma spell in order to stop others using it, as well as the issues of kicking players from kingdoms, then taking their cities. Overall, what the game needs most of all is an active Admin who monitors this kind of thing, the community in general cannot be as effective (see response to Kobu and Music halfer exp feeding, and the lack of proper response). | ||||||||||||
I just wrote a fairly concise and well thought out post about the biggest issues that an inactive admin has created, but I didn't save it on a text document before posting and VU automatically logged me out. Looks like that post will be lost forever! As opposed to taking the time and effort to try to re-write the post, let me just throw out an example to demonstrate a point. Imagine if Zeta had abandoned the game in Era 25. Right now the game would be a completely dead and unplayable piece of shit because players would cover the map with impassable overlapping Great Walls. Luckily Zeta did not abandon the game in Era 25, and when a few players starting crosswalling too much, Zeta just removed Great Walls altogether. I'm not saying that that was the right thing to do, anyone who has been around long enough to observe the changes that Zeta has made will tell you that they aren't always well though out or balanced; in fact they are usually just the opposite. There is a reason that "changes" used to wordfilter to "improvements"; it's because everyone would complain about how shitty the changes were! Adapting to the changes was 1/2 the fun, the game was always poorly balanced; but adapting to the changes and recognizing the imbalances was a part of the game. The last few changes that Zeta has left us with aren't just tweaks or adjustments to the races and units, or even gameplay mechanics at all. They were just shitty changes to the game as a whole. The bonus turn change, the spawning pool change, the kingdom population cap change, and the 50% rule change were all horrible changes. But more so then gameplay changes, the lack of an active Admin has negatively impacted the game through the metagame. As players are slowly starting to realize that they will no longer be punished for exploiting bugs or gameplay mechanics, they are starting to abuse the flaws in Visual Utopia more and more Not only is there no Admin to punish such abuses, but the community no longer reacts to it either. A game so prone to abuse cannot be ran in autopilot. | ||||||||||||
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