Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / Jesus as a Roman

Jesus as a Roman
23:18:25 Mar 11th 07 - Mr. Lorian:

Wouldn't it be conveinient if jesus had been a roman. Jesus preached of peace and acceptance in a time when the jews were becoming violent in their actions. If jesus had been succesful then the romans might have preserved the peace and continued their rule. severla questions might have come from this like why he was crucified and how he came back?

1. he was crucified to prove the point that if you repented it was possible to get away with just about anything. If this was true than a roman that had killed a jew would just have to repent in the christin manner than he would be saved.

2. twins might have been around then. wouldn't it be easy to find a pair of twins than fit some of the prophesies and then sum him up to be a great prophet himself. preaching of all the things talked about in the jewish bible. you switch his twin with him every now and then so that it would be accepted for slight improvements in apperance.

3. jesus would have been the perfect spy. people would trust him and so he would learn of jewish plots and schemes.

All of this makes very good political sense if you think about it for a while. If it was true how might that affect the religon that came forth or the world in general  


00:14:13 Mar 12th 07 - Lord Argyle:

I respect your point of view, and has decided to not think about it, not more then I had to to write this post.


01:35:26 Mar 12th 07 - Mr. Jayge:

Indeed, I have to completely disagree, seeing as there is much evidence to thte fact that Jesus was Armenian.

In any case, of yet you have shown absolutely no evidence, or greatly effective logical arguments.


01:54:45 Mar 12th 07 - Mr. Knuckle Duster:

Your both wrong, Jesus is the Mexican that lives down the road with the low rider.


06:43:12 Mar 12th 07 - Sir Shahal:

Nuh uh.  Jesus was from Kentucky.  Look at his parents, Mary and Joe. >_<


08:07:09 Mar 12th 07 - Mr. Architect:

I'm on the same page as Argyle with this one.  I could debate, but I doubt, after reading what I read here, that it would be helpful in any way.


12:43:17 Mar 12th 07 - Ms. Maat:

jesus never existed, nor did mohammed, just tools to control the ignorant peasantry ...


14:02:19 Mar 12th 07 - Sir Rhade:

And Bhudda, and Konfucius?  What about the pope, does he exist?  It's not about whether they existed, it's almost 100% historically proven that they did.  It's about whether they existed divinely or as simple teachers.

(Edited by Sir Rhade 3/12/2007 2:02:31 PM)


14:57:01 Mar 12th 07 - Mr. Lorian:

1. its confucious not konfucius

2. Maat hit my point skightly. and so did rhade. it has been proven that they exist. what im saying is that it makes lots of sense to say that jesus was just an orsinary man that preached what he thought was good and right.

#. the majority of the bible was written by pagans anyway. the council of nicea at like 300ad decided which books were to go in the bible. how the hell is that book supposed to prove anything if pagans decided what was going in it


15:01:03 Mar 12th 07 - Ms. Maat:

exactly, it's just used for demagogy.


17:36:39 Mar 12th 07 - Mr. Architect:

#. the majority of the bible was written by pagans anyway. the council of nicea at like 300ad decided which books were to go in the bible. how the hell is that book supposed to prove anything if pagans decided what was going in it.

 

Name a single pagan that actually wrote a book of the bible.

 

The council of Nicaea took place in 325 AD and invited to this meeting were 1800 of the Christian churches bishops, which was all of them at the time.  Somewhere between 250 and 318 actually showed up and there are accounts of different numbers ranging inside of those to parameters.  These representatives were from all over, not just form one area, so the thoughts and ideas were diversified.

And, though I have heard it before, I'm not entirely sure that the distinguising of the books of the bible was actually decided at Nicaea.  The agenda of the meeting was this:

The agenda of the synod were:

  1. The Arian question;
  2. The celebration of Passover;
  3. The Meletian schism;
  4. The Father and Son one in purpose or in person;
  5. The baptism of heretics;
  6. The status of the lapsed in the persecution under Licinius.

I've searched for other places saying that it was decided soemwhere else but I can not find any evidence.  So, I cant say for sure, however you 3rd claim was just blown out of the water.

*edited for spelling*


(Edited by Mr. Architect 3/12/2007 5:38:00 PM)


22:56:25 Mar 12th 07 - Sir Arzun:

Sir Rhade


3/12/2007 9:02:19 AM
And Bhudda, and Konfucius?  What about the pope, does he exist?  It's not about whether they existed, it's almost 100% historically proven that they did.  It's about whether they existed divinely or as simple teachers.

(Edited by Sir Rhade 3/12/2007 2:02:31 PM)

Ha! Rhade you fool you, the Pope is just a myth, he doesn't really exist, I meam has anyone ever seen him? It's just like Dinosaurs, George W. Bush and 50 cent! All fictional characters!

Geez, kids today.


00:06:39 Mar 13th 07 - Mr. Lorian:

the council of nicea was run by Constatine the great who was baptised as he died. and how the hell did 300 bishops safely go a populated city in the roman empire before christianity was legalized. That would be like christians congregating in broad daylight in china.


00:11:47 Mar 13th 07 - Mr. Lorian:

oh and go check you sources. i want to show you why your argument has no merit


00:16:25 Mar 13th 07 - Sir Arzun:

As a great man once said,

"There is a fine line, between Pagan and Christianity."

-Steve Vai

: )


01:07:35 Mar 13th 07 - Mr. Knuckle Duster:

I agree with Arzun on this, Steve Vai is a great man!


02:18:29 Mar 13th 07 - Mr. Architect:

I've checked my sources, and you've not proved me wrong yet.  And the fact of the matter is that 300 bishops did make it there, and the council was held.  And, since you have not said the name of a pagan who wrote a book of the bible, I'm guessing you have found that there are not any.  And, the council was Conviened by Constantine, he himself had no say in what went into anything as he was not a Bishop.

Your spitting out lies, you have been defeated, and your too childish to accept it.  If you can prove me wrong then do so, otherwise your done.


10:59:29 Mar 13th 07 - Ms. Maat:

15:01:05 Mar 13th 07 - Mr. Lorian:

were both to arrogant to believe that we will ever be beaten but i will be the first to back off the subjetct


21:27:21 Mar 13th 07 - Ms. Ginger Spice:

Jesus was a Roman, at least that's what a german theologist wrote a book about, i dunno what it's named but he says that jesus christ (JC) and Julius Ceasar (JC) are one and the same person. He gives all kind of arguments for it. like they both have had the same women names around them, were born at the same time and died at the same time. Anyways go find the book ;)


21:50:17 Mar 13th 07 - Mr. Architect:

Ok, well, arguments aside, I would really like to know what is wrong about what I'm saying.  On a level of pure interest, not in any argumentative way, could you tell me exactly what it is that is wrong with my sources and why they have no merit.


22:08:32 Mar 13th 07 - Mr. Jayge:

Jesus was a Roman, at least that's what a german theologist wrote a book about, i dunno what it's named but he says that jesus christ (JC) and Julius Ceasar (JC) are one and the same person. He gives all kind of arguments for it. like they both have had the same women names around them, were born at the same time and died at the same time. Anyways go find the book ;)

Erm, there's one big problem with your guy's argument. Christ wasn't Jesus's last name, nor was he reffered to as that during his lifetime. His name was Jesus of Nazareth, Nazareth being the place of his birth. That is how Jewish naming was back in those years.


00:03:17 Mar 14th 07 - Ms. Maat:

you have to be able to distinguish the hoaxers with true facts ... :-p 

read more then one book and then make up your mind, a source is good if you can find the same info in three different, non-liased, independent places  (like a library, or universities, ..., not some weirdo's weekend-project)


03:08:22 Mar 14th 07 - Mr. Architect:

It's from Wikipedia.  It is an online encyclopedia.  This means that sources are checked and re-checked with other resources on and offline.  There are some things that can be changed by the viewing public on there however anything carrying historical importance on there is locked from the public changing it until it is reviewed by the moderators.  If you cant accept what an encyclopedia says, then you'll not be able to find anything online anywhere that will convince you, and nor will I. 


04:32:15 Mar 14th 07 - Mr. Lorian:

the fact is that i was dissing you on your on pages for about two hours before it was changed. My points of the orgins of the bible aside. The main wuestion was wether jesus was a loyal citizen to the roman empie and might have been working with them or with the pharisees. It would make good sense for him to play the torah in a way that said they were to follow the rules in a way that did not hinder the natural way of life. That is what the pharisees saw the torah as also. The pharisees also colaborated somewhat with the romans to stay in power which would explain the accept all mood of the bible teachings


10:02:37 Mar 14th 07 - Ms. Maat:

true architect, but it is not the only source available ... and i was refferring to the Jesus = Julius story (which is clearly a mie)


14:59:31 Mar 14th 07 - Mr. Lorian:

julius caesar died in 40 bc. so there is no way i hell that they are the some person


17:19:25 Mar 14th 07 - Mr. Santa Claus:

Mr. Lorian


3/13/2007 12:06:39 AM
the council of nicea was run by Constatine the great who was baptised as he died. and how the hell did 300 bishops safely go a populated city in the roman empire before christianity was legalized. That would be like christians congregating in broad daylight in china.
Not true, christianity was already allowed sinds Emperor Constatine gave his people freedom of Religion. During that period of Freedom of Religion the "debate"about the bible was held. It was not suicide walking there. And i don't believe JC and JC are the same sinds Jezus Christ was born 40 years after Ceaser was stabbed by his "friends". Having the same female names around him isnt really that strange sinds Ceaser had a lot of woman surrounding him sinds he was powerfull, rich, probably handsome etc. Though Jezus didnt had a lot of woman around him, theres a big chance one of them was named the same as Ceaser woman were. And the JC and JC thing doesnt mean anything sinds:first of all, Jezus was only named Christ after his death and Ceasers name was actually Gaius Julius  and later Gaius Julius Ceaser so it wouldve been GJ/GJC. :)


19:42:59 Mar 14th 07 - Ms. Ginger Spice:

haha lol, people there is no single truth, u'll have to make your own.and i wouldn't call a university based theologist a weekend hoaxer.

"Erm, there's one big problem with your guy's argument. Christ wasn't Jesus's last name, nor was he reffered to as that during his lifetime. His name was Jesus of Nazareth, Nazareth being the place of his birth. That is how Jewish naming was back in those years."

How do u know, were u there?

Like i said there's no single truth, i mean people used to get taught dinosaurs went extinct cause of a meteorite, now most paleontoligists will say dinosaurs still exist. (birds)

Mr. Lorian


3/14/2007 2:59:31 PM
julius caesar died in 40 bc. so there is no way i hell that they are the some person

 

how do u know? since when is history an infallable science?

ever heard of whighistory? I don't say that's the case here but it;s an argument why people shouldn't listen too much to historians. And wasn't most part of the bible written hundreds of years after christ lived?

The women's names weren't just some random names but important women in both ceasar's and jesus's lives, like their mother and lover. Both were also betrayed by someone close to them.

anyways i didn't say i believed the guy but it's a funny thought.

and u cant prove it's not true just like i can't prove it's true :P

just like a religious person can't prove God exists an atheist can't prove he doesn't exist.

So make your own truth,

That's life ;)


20:33:22 Mar 14th 07 - Sir Arzun:

That is a really cool theory, I might look into it. Would be weird wouldn't it. That would change everything, they were both brutally mudered by their own people.


20:40:09 Mar 14th 07 - Mr. Santa Claus:

Jezus wasnt murdered by his own people, he was murdered by Romans while himself being a citizen from Nazareth and later on from Jeruzalem. Also, i could find out if Jezus and Ceaser lived. I can easily build a timemachine, i just need a sponsor...


16:17:15 Mar 15th 07 - Duke Erunion Telcontar:

I doubt Jesus was a tool of the pharisees. He really made them look bad in the eyes of the people, over and over again... And with the JC=JC, yeah. Check your time period. And one more thing, even if that was changed, how would it be possible for JC to be wintering in Gaul and preaching in the Isreal/Palestine area at the same time!?!?!? Or fighting a war during the sermon on the mount??? Because I certainly don't remember a time when J Ceaser went to the Isreal/Palestine area, he spent most of his adult life conquering the north, then went south to rome to rule there, and I don't think he had time from matters of state to preach.... Especially when it would have taken three months at least to get from the matters of state to the preaching...


19:17:10 Mar 15th 07 - Mr. Santa Claus:

ET, do know, Ceaser has been in Egypte, very close to israel. And I was just thinking, why is Jezus in most movie's and musicals BLOND!! In Israel and Palestine the only BLONDS are people who colored their hear or are immigrants. There were NO northEuropean Immigrants in that time. Ceaser couldve been blond though. Its all very strange and us, VU players, will probably not find the answer anytime soon. If you do, please let me know;)


08:09:37 Mar 16th 07 - Mr. Architect:

Why would how Jesus appears in a MOVIE produced by HOLLYWOOD give any clout to the argument of Jesus Christ and Caesar being the same person?  It's a movie, not a history book, and while I'd like to believe that most movies with Christ in it have had some research put in behind them, I know that sometimes people miss stuff, and the fact that Jesus appears as a blonde in a movie means nothing.  Also, I cant remember a single movie where I remember seeing Jesus as a blonde, would you mind telling me a few of em?


15:59:24 Mar 16th 07 - Mr. Killstone:

Jesus Christ and ceaser the same? BAH! what is the world coming to!

In the bible talking about Jesus being crucified it said the crowd wanted to release barabas or w/e his anme was the bad murder criminal instead of Jesus. Ceaser knew Jesus was innocent so he washed his hands and said "I am innocent of this mans fate" and handed Jesus to the crowd. how could ceaser let himself be crucified? and how could ceaser be there and wash his hands when Jesus was down on the ground already whipped and humiliated and stripped of atleast msot of his clothing?

therefore Jesus was not ceaser. Also if you disagree with me cause i use the bible as proof, then think of this. to test a historicle book one of the tests is to use the old testement of the bible to see if it contradicts it. If that doesnt convince you then message me in game and i will send you other reasons cause i dont want to write any more out right now.


17:01:02 Mar 16th 07 - Mr. Santa Claus:

Mr. Architect


3/16/2007 8:09:37 AM
Why would how Jesus appears in a MOVIE produced by HOLLYWOOD give any clout to the argument of Jesus Christ and Caesar being the same person?  It's a movie, not a history book, and while I'd like to believe that most movies with Christ in it have had some research put in behind them, I know that sometimes people miss stuff, and the fact that Jesus appears as a blonde in a movie means nothing.  Also, I cant remember a single movie where I remember seeing Jesus as a blonde, would you mind telling me a few of em?

Well, just to name one of the most famous ones, Jezus Christ Superstar!


17:48:43 Mar 16th 07 - Lord Argyle:

Have you thought about that in most HOLLYWOOD MOVIES about jesus, jesus speaks ENGLISH!!!! :O OMG OMG OMG is it true that jesus spoke english??????? This is insane, I didn't realize this FACT until just recently!!!


18:41:30 Mar 16th 07 - Mr. Santa Claus:

then maybe Jezus was a Brit:O

Or an American :P


18:48:57 Mar 16th 07 - Sir Brain:

Or an American :P

Ask the Mormons and they might agree with you. ;-)


13:59:49 Mar 19th 07 - Sir Salader Vineraven:

jesus was the bomb....
well he is awsome...
hey he could be australian!!1


14:08:15 Mar 19th 07 - Sir Salader Vineraven:

okay im here its okay ill fill you all in in where jesus is from and every thing

jesus was from the futrure!!!
well it makes sence i guess, with the curing and the realy good speaking capabilites. and it would explain the reserection and the desending to the heavens<time machine> <robot>

hmm awto thing about that one...
and also id like to add to the beginng that jesus was a jewish person




14:45:17 Mar 19th 07 - Mr. Lorian:

this has gone completly out of control. how did the train of thought get to this point any way?


10:41:08 Mar 20th 07 - Mr. Tsufar:

Sir Arzun


3/13/2007 5:56:25 AM
Sir Rhade


3/12/2007 9:02:19 AM
And Bhudda, and Konfucius?  What about the pope, does he exist?  It's not about whether they existed, it's almost 100% historically proven that they did.  It's about whether they existed divinely or as simple teachers.

(Edited by Sir Rhade 3/12/2007 2:02:31 PM)

Ha! Rhade you fool you, the Pope is just a myth, he doesn't really exist, I meam has anyone ever seen him? It's just like Dinosaurs, George W. Bush and 50 cent! All fictional characters!

Geez, kids today.

 

Haha.....good one...don't forget about Eminem


12:38:05 Mar 22nd 07 - Mr. Dreadlord:

where armenians even habitating armenia then?

jesus is from around jeruzalem and armenians had nothing to do with that place until it became holy


12:41:08 Mar 22nd 07 - Mr. Dreadlord:

adn someone who is traveling all around there would see alot more sun then anyone else i would gues he was pretty black

 

(this is the darkes jesus i could find on google search)

not even close

 


14:22:33 Mar 22nd 07 - Mr. Thor:


..oops I think my montior's broken again...just need to turn the brightness up...ahh thats better! Here's the whitest Prophet Mohammad I could find
http://tinyurl.com/24m4em
I don't know what's on the end of his finger but it certainly seems to have given him something to think about.


15:57:47 Mar 23rd 07 - Mr. Dead OR Dying:

His name in Greek is Jesus but His Hebrew name is Yehoshua.  In Aramaic it's "Yeshua" So that scr3ws the Julius Caesar theory even if the very well established timeline was incorrect.


16:29:14 Mar 23rd 07 - Mr. Native Peoples:

Judea was Roman at that time so Jesus was Roman.


16:33:01 Mar 23rd 07 - Lord Argyle:

@ Mr. Native Peoples... so if a country has owned another country, the inhabitants of that country turn into the new countrys citizenship, meaning, all irakis are now americans and should be able to travel freely between the two continents?? I get you logic, it's very unlogical...


16:51:10 Mar 23rd 07 - Mr. Dead OR Dying:

The only thing we know for sure about how Jesus looked is that we will never know. No real portraits were made and if they were they are either destroyed or we haven't found or recognised them yet.
If western art of the last 2000 or so years can be believed then Jesus was white, handsome with blue eyes, long flowing hair and a ethereal glow. However it is almost certain that Jesus was not white and also that his hair would have been short. The region where Jesus was born was, and remains, populated by brown-skinned people. The fact of Christ's non-whiteness is borne out in the historical record, and in biblical scripture. Right off the bat, the Book of Matthew describes Mary and Joseph fleeing to Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Egypt is in Africa, and is populated by brown-skinned people. For my money, this would be the last place on earth I would go to hide a white baby from an angry King.

Ethiopian Christianity, which pre-dates European Christianity, always depicts Christ as an African and it generally agreed that people of the region where Jesus came from looked nothing like the general western stereotype. Of course Jesus was black, he called everybody 'brother', liked Gospel, and couldn't get a fair trial

During the time of Roman Emperor Justinian II, a gold coin featuring an image of Jesus was minted. This coin, which today can be seen in the British Museum, depicts a man with demonstrably non-white features and tightly curled hair. Finally, there is the Book of Revelations, which bears out the crafting of the Essenes and the Roman coin-makers by describing Jesus as having hair like wool, feet the color of burnt brass, and who resembled jasper and sardine stones. Jasper and sardine stones are both brown, as is burnt brass.

He's of Mediterranean or African stock, and it's quite clear what that means. We see people like that in the world today, and that should end the matter. The fact that 2000 years on people are still disputing this has more to do with people's other issues rather than the question at hand.



And that is all I have to say on the subject. :)


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