Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / Religious Extremist terror

Religious Extremist terror
01:54:02 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Sakaal II:

Those who have actually ever read the Qur'an (Koran) do know that it is certainly not a very peaceful book. Neither are many other books, so I am not saying the Qur'an was the only hostile book around. I myself am opposed to any religion, not just Islam. I am saying this just to emphasize that I am not specifically anti-Muslim, but an atheist and even an antitheist--in many ways like Christopher Hitchens, for example.

Anyway, the Qur'an starts intimidating the reader right from the first Hitzb (2-4 Sura) and maintains this attitude throughout the book. The atmosphere of death, fear and severe punishment is always there. Don't take my word for it, but see for yourself; read at least the verse 154 in the 2nd Sura, The Cow. <- Click on the link.  If you have time, it may be worth reading from the beginning. It's scary stuff, if you believed in it. And think about how many millions do. Some of them get radicalized and start to act out their interpretations of the worst parts of the book.

I honestly believe these kind of religions are dangerous. You can find the radical stuff in other religious books too (in other religions). I have browsed the Qur'an quite a bit, and to me it seems very worrying. When I imagine millions of fundamentalists reading it and getting agitated by it, it is not a pretty picture. We are actually going to see more of that picture over the upcoming decades. A couple bombings here or there could still be a coincidence, but let me show you some official figures:

The following are official statistics from the Worldwide Incidents Tracking System (WITS) of the US National Counterterrorism Center:

Number of Incidents, Dead, Wounded, Hostage, and Total from 1/1/1973 to 5/27/2007

Grouped By Perpetrator Characteristic (confirmed Christian, Islamic or Jewish Extremist)

Perpetrator Characteristic:  [Incidents]  Dead  Wounded  Hostage = Total

Islamic Extremist:  [3'656]  13'122  31'692  1'542 = 46'356
Christian Extremist:  [81]  731  339  214 = 1,284
Jewish Extremist:  [4]  5  28  0 = 33

Islamic Extremist incidents are further broken down to:

Islamic Extremist (Shia):  [253]  596  1,889  307 = 2'792
Islamic Extremist (Sunni):  [3'012]  11'125  24'801  915 = 36'841
Islamic Extremist (Unknown):  [391]  1'401  5'002  320 = 6'723

The statistics show that Islamic Extremists are responsible for over 35 times more terror victims than Christian and Jewish Extremists together. And Sunnis are responsible for at least 80 % of those.

Other groups (especially political secularists and anarchists) are responsible for even more terror. Most casualties come from incidents where the perpetrator could not have been confirmed, but the above are from the confirmed cases. Anyway, the difference is so clear that there is no doubt Islamic Extremism really is far more hostile than Christian or Jewish Extremism. That is an undeniable statistical fact.

Part of the explanation for these levels of violence has to be in the Qur'an and the Bible, which are the main sources of inspiration for the extremists. I have read both those books (partially), and as unfortunate it might be, the imbalance of those statistics makes perfect sense to me.

You can call me a racist, but that does not change the statistical facts, nor that this is about religion and not about any race or physical appearance of anyone.

Unfortunately the US National Counterterrorism Center does not report incidents where the perpetrators are militant atheists or extreme antitheists. That is probably because they are so rare.


01:59:07 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Sakaal II:

If you prefer percentages, 35 times more = 97.2 %


10:09:52 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Ghouma:

I dont really understand what thoose figures are ment to say, how many Jews are there in the world? If you look at the Palestine conflict Israel has killed 10 times more palestianians then palestinians have killed israelis.

Since america is somehwat of a fundamentalist nation, and the people making wars like Vietnam and Iraq possible are fundamentalist christians? Why not count in another 6 million victims. The worst scum in the worlds history were mostly christians. That dosnt mean christianity is a worse religion it just means that the nations that was christian had advantages over other places, christianity was of course the best way to justify the genocides.

The fact that so many Islamic people become fantatic has to do with their social situation. You cant compare third world illiterate people to us who got free education, say they are more extreme and blame it on their religion. Its not fair, its like talking about the white mans burden.

Im also an Atheist, I think beliving in something that dosnt exist makes your world view dissorted. Christians also belive in good and evil wich maked everything so simple for them and they become stupid dangerous people.


10:12:04 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Ghouma:

I would also say that the old testament is a very violent book.


10:51:34 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Sakaal II:

Ghouma, thank you. I was hoping someone would make those points as well. Slight provocation ignites more discussion.

Obviously those figures do not include war victims. Also wars produce considerable collateral damage and innocent victims. Nearly all of the victims of terrorism are innocent. Of course systematic violence like wars create way more victims.

Israel likes to wage wars officially and that does not count as "terrorism". Still that is equally or even more hostile than terrorism.

Not all peoples in a difficult social situation take it to carry out terrorist attacks elsewhere, even in countries that have provided them with a refugee. Nor does the number of people correlate with the number of terrorist attacks. For example in China there hundreds of millions of religious people and many of them come from very poor conditions. How come we never hear from Chinese traditional religions, Taoist or Buddhist terrorists bombing anyone? There are almost as many Hindus as there are Muslims. Many Hindus come from poverty, but Hindu terrorism is not even nearly as common as Islamic terrorism. Some underdeveloped countries have even chosen to better their own lives and are now rapidly growing a prosperous economy.

I would still argue that religion has something to do with it and some religions are more hostile than others.

Yes, the old testament too is a very violent and often intimidating book.


11:29:18 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Sakaal II:

And Ghouma, sorry I almost forgot you asked how many Jews are there in the world. Well, there are approximately:
2100 million Christians
1300 million Muslims
14 million Jews

When you divide the number of terror victims by the number of believers, you get something like:

From 1973 to 2007 we have approximately:
1 Christian terror victim per 1.6 million Christians
1 Islamic terror victim per 28 thousand Muslims
1 Jewish terror victim per 424 thousand Jews

Only terrorism incidents (not war casualties) are included in these figures.


12:25:08 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Breadlord:

skaala about your numbers i woud have to say that the CIA is behind most of them.

al quida and US pollicies there are the same. 2 ends of the same coint. al quada so called takes claim of some terrorist actions while its never even supposed to be there.

Its basicly a desparete attemt by the us millitary to take control. Im shure you have heard of it its called DEDVIDE and concour basicly the miltary attacks religious shia sites and them al quada takes responsibility.(they migh convinse some people as the situation worsens wich is the case now) so the people in iraq start to attack al quada itself and supposedly the US militaryy helps to cover things up.When the civil situations worsens and more iraqi's die its the all becouse of the civil war trying starting becosue of the military... ( i call it the military but the real evil doesnt have a name its jsut hides behindes groups of people like america/military)


12:28:56 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Breadlord:

so i would say count half those numbers   and  multiply it by a hundred (to reach the killes coused by installed Dictators)

and thats about 100x that number. and put that behind CIA....

In fact mutiply it by a million and put it behind greedy capitalist. For all the millions of people dieing of poverty.Becouse they are infact being killed.


13:35:05 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Ghouma:

Sakaal the problem is that terror from western states is not described as terror, america has by terrorism killed millions in central america, I would almost say that presenting figures that way is racist. America killed about 600.000 people in Cambodia without being in war with them, why are not thoose figures presented? Thats more then 200 times the 9/11 attack.


13:36:08 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Sakaal II:

Sure it would be interesting to see terrorism/religion statistics from other sources as well. One problem here is also that there is no clear definition of what is terrorism and what is not, which makes collecting and comparing statistics difficult. And of course we would need statistics on other kinds of violence too, especially wars and government violence.


13:49:43 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Breadlord:

shure religeon was used for violance and wars all trough history.

later it was replaced in the west by nationalism. ofc its ezier to blame religion / nationalism for these things but that wont be true. Its just peope that turn them into these things. Only blameing religion for these thing is not much diffrent then blamgeing wanting to go to collage or wanting to become a US citizens for the war in iraq.Sinse those are the primary reason why people go into the military.

The only diffrence is that when you hear someone want to go to collage you dont start thinking of him as a soulless soldier who kills jsut becouse he is told to.

but when you hear someone is a muslim you do start to think that he is a terrorist.And maybe even start to make him think he is one.

Thats the problem.


13:51:50 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Ghouma:

I would say "using violence or the threat of it to create fear" is a pretty good defenition. Also, you are wrong bout the hindus, there are loads of hinduist extremist terrorism, and its not so strange since India is the worlds most religous nation.


13:58:52 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Ghouma:

Why would you think someone was a terrorist because he was a muslim? Thats crazy, how much muslim terrorism have america been a victim to? How many muslims is there? Im always amazed at how racist some people can be towards arabs, and that it can be tolerated in some countries.

And your right, we cant really lay all the blame for the relgious wars on religon. Its just a fact that uneducated people belive is alot more superstisous then educated people.


14:19:03 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Breadlord:

american education still denies theory of evolution.. education doesnt teach you how to behave or how to act. its TV that does than ow and sometimes parent.

im a muslim and i know how people look at me sometimes i really dont blame them becouse of all the news and everything but its there.


14:19:44 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Barny:

Wow..... seriously the stupid thing I have seen someone post Sakaal. FIRSTLY I am also an atheist. The Qur'an is not a book of violence of extremism, and you probably have rad very abstract phrases that lead you to believe it is.

And you facts are SOOOOO messed up. There have been so many Islam Extremist crime for a wealth of reasons.

One reason is that they have been in ongoing conflicts since 1979, and those numbers start at 1973.

Another is that Extremist crimes require very little resources to commit, they are basically cheap and effective. If you look at things like, oh I don't know... wars committed by member of a certain faith than you get way different facts.

Jews have such few extremist crimes because they are so few in numbers and prefer to wage war, and that is apparent in things like the 7 day war, and the amount of Israelis killed in comparison Palestinians killed.

Christians don't commit extremist crimes because the VAST majority of Christian nations are very developed and have much higher yearly GPD ratings (Gross Domestic Product, a measure of a countries Productivity). Christian nations haven't seen a single conflict in which they have needed to resort to those kinds of crimes, and when they do kill people it isn't by extremist crimes, but by other means. When you look at CIVILIANS killed in Iraq by CHRISTIAN soldier, the numbers are 66807-73120.

Also, you said that 80% of extremist crimes are committed by Sunni's, well that makes sense since 85% of Muslims are Shia.

                                               So to sum it all up:

You cannot base how violent a particular religion is based on how many times it has done 1 particular thing. The facts that you presented are completely unfair for so many reasons.



14:29:06 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Barny:

So by your reasoning I could say that Christianity is the most violent religion, because there have been far more people killed by Christian soldiers than soldiers of any other religion.

I could also say that Judaism is the most peacefully religion, because there haven't been killed nearly as many people killed by Jewish soldiers as the other  primary religions.



As you can see, both the above facts are untrue. So is what you posted Sakaal.



Heres a fun website: http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm


15:39:47 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

Mr. Ghouma

Report


7/4/2007 5:09:52 AM
I dont really understand what thoose figures are ment to say, how many Jews are there in the world? If you look at the Palestine conflict Israel has killed 10 times more palestianians then palestinians have killed israelis.

Since america is somehwat of a fundamentalist nation, and the people making wars like Vietnam and Iraq possible are fundamentalist christians? Why not count in another 6 million victims. The worst scum in the worlds history were mostly christians. That dosnt mean christianity is a worse religion it just means that the nations that was christian had advantages over other places, christianity was of course the best way to justify the genocides.

The fact that so many Islamic people become fantatic has to do with their social situation. You cant compare third world illiterate people to us who got free education, say they are more extreme and blame it on their religion. Its not fair, its like talking about the white mans burden.

Im also an Atheist, I think beliving in something that dosnt exist makes your world view dissorted. Christians also belive in good and evil wich maked everything so simple for them and they become stupid dangerous people.

 

so i am terorist  i am forteen years old so you imagine me with guns and all things kills

did muslims invent the guns ?

did muslims even when they knew gun powered killed with it ?

did muslims invent the nucler missle ?

did muslims attked from behind ?

did muslims took englind or englind took the muslims lands ?

did muslims and did

so you are the people invent the mess in the world and say because asimple bomb was made by brain and cleaver with no chmechist  made you call us terorist

george washnton was called terorist in this day 4 july when he fought for freedom by english king

as you said jews forteen million made a mess around the world .

i am a new uncle my sister got a boy his age is 7 days . is he a torerst or you imagine his photo with bomb belt .

do a mother like her son to die even if he is going paradise and i tried that when even i was joking .

look and see how many countries we muslims took by power and how many countries is taking from us and yes from us

irak             by america

afganstan            by america

palestine              by israel

kshmeer               by indea

jolan                     by israel

sheshan                 by russia

 

give me countries muslims took it and islam is not the main relegion in it

i say america is a tororist but in good uniform in army uniform

 

 

 


15:40:48 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

ghoma it looks like when i post that post as you called me that name but i meant to thank you


15:44:57 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Iwasfrozen IV:

Islam.

It's all in a word.Many Muslims tell you it means peace,but it dose not the correct meaning is"submission to Allah" and i can see how crackpots bent on death can twist this to their own sick notiones.

the fact is Extremists hate us not for anythin we have done in the past but for our way of life our liberilism,they hate our gender equality they hate our freedom,basicily they hate our way of life, they believe we belong to "the house of war" and untill we surrender to "the house of Islam" we will never find peace.

I do not mean to offend any Muslims out there, I reilise Islam mostly teaches peace and love, but there are always maniacs who are bent on destruction on one from or another.

How do i know this well,I grew up with the IRA bombings in Northern Ireland though i live in the borders of the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland and although i oficily lived in Ireland British troops would storm over the border and put towns like mine under marsil "British" law, in an atempet to catch the bambers.

Like the Muslim bombers they where fighting for a cause to unite Ireland,I like every other Irish man would love to see a united Ireland but only through peaceful terms.

so you can see I have a fair idea of the mind of a maniac,all i can say to Muslim fanatics is that we will never surrender to"the house of Islam".


15:51:44 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

sunna + shia = islam

if the 80% is made by sunna which i am

i am also proud if shia make somthing like iran gave hammas money

go hammas go go go go on the right islam way and you always fight with honur and a suprem point we all support you .

i will read your link now barny


15:55:56 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Iwasfrozen IV:

so you support these blood thirsty killers?


16:00:38 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

dude your suck this is not our point

islam mean = we muslims in basic we handle all our things to god that we do orders without asking why as angels it comes the meaning in arbic better

we dont want you to surrender to us . we want to learn you islam then tell you if you want to join you are welcomed . if not take your relegion and live in peace in our country but pay a little money is to defend you because you cant join the army .

and even when roman arrenged an attack to take back demascoss . the islamic leader returned the money because its to protect you but we now dont know if we can we give you back the money .

 


16:05:19 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

we have same point and same relegion we are brothers as god made us brothers in islam


16:06:41 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Iwasfrozen IV:

 we want to learn you islam then tell you if you want to join you are welcomed . if not take your relegion and live in peace in "our country" but pay a little money is to defend you because you cant join the army.

WTF,since when was Irealnd an Islamic state?

 


16:13:47 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Sakaal II:

Barny, there are always many points of view to every human issue. I also posted relative figures. Maybe you didn't notice the post of 7/4/2007 1:29:18 PM above.

Ghouma, I did not say there is no Hindu terrorism. I said there is more Islamic terrorism than there is Hindu terrorism. However, I don't have any other statistics at hand to support that except the NCTC figures I posted earlier, and they do not account for Hindu extremists separately. So, from those figures it only seems likely that Islamic extremist violence is more common, but it is not yet established in any explicit terms. We would need some other source to really confirm which religion really was more violent.

My main argument is that some religions are more violent than others. I still think that Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all definitely more violent than Buddhism, Taoism, or Confucianism for example.

And if some religions are more violent than others, then why couldn't there be a difference between Islam and Christianity?


16:16:12 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Iwasfrozen IV:

I am Christian and i believe the old testoment is dangerous, but if you can point out one point of the teachings of Christ that are dangerous i'd like to see it.As much as i can see Christ thought us love.


16:26:26 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Dakarius:

I've skimmed through this and seen many ignorant statements so exuse me if I missed an explanation or this has already been done.

-someone said America does not teach evolution: It does.
-America =/= christianity sure christians are the majority, but they are not killing as a result of their beliefs, they kill due to orders from their commanding oficers and the military is made of many religeons.
-America runs on the belief of seperation of Church and state so the church and most of its followers have nothing to do with US policy

I'm sure if I looked I could find more errors.


16:29:17 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Dakarius:

The old testament was suited for more barbaric times, it still has some good lessons, but the new testament takes precedence over it. It is the new testament that christians base most of their doctrine on.


16:31:22 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Sakaal II:

Excellent point, Iwasfrozen IV. Even if I am an atheist, I like the moral teachings of Jesus very much. They are very peaceful and loving. Way better than the old testament. I believe that really is one reason why Christianity appears to be far less violent than Islam or Judaism for example (see especially the figures I posted 7/4/2007 1:29:18 PM).

The new testament might be about as peaceful as Buddhism or the Chinese traditional religions? Of course exact comparison may be impossible or irrelevant.


16:35:03 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Diplomat The Weirdgrivi:

it's not about how "violent" religions are or what's written down in some texts. the point is, that terrorism isn't based on religion or religious views, it's merely based on plain, old nationalism.

the main goal of this terrorism is always a political one (usually drive away some occupation power) - religion is only used in this process as some sort of justification for that. it is thought to justify those violent acts towards the terrorist's own people (thus being a form of recruitment) as well as towards the "enemies".


16:43:40 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Iwasfrozen IV:

terrorist's want the world to follow Islamic law,the western tredition of seperating church and goverment angers them.


17:00:00 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Sakaal II:

Diplomat The Weirdgrivi, but some religious thoughts and writings are much easier to use than others:

Religious texts are almost always rather riddling and symbolic. In those religions, which I consider "more violent", the metaphoras used in their "sacred texts" are more violent and even openly hostile. If someone wants to use a religion as a justification for violence, it is much easier to use the Qur'an or the Old Testament than it would be to use the New Testament for example.

Of course the book itself is not physically violent. It is the believer who takes the book and hits you on the head with it.


17:02:33 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Ghouma:

Thats not a western thing, in europe most nations have not seperated church and state. That dosnt mean naything, America has and they are still fundamentalist. To become secular is something that comes with education, the more inteligent you are the less likly it is that ur religious.


17:08:33 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

i dont care the hell

wtf look in europe and america when they married they dont marry on church rules on the court rules .

ireland is stupid country i mean nerve look when a man go ther anther came and tell him are you prostunt or catholic if the anther is wrong he lost his life dont tell me its not terorest.

huh mohmd said :"the judgment day dont come and every spot on earth hve islam ".

why you people always talks in felosfy give me facts

this a letter "a"is bad in my uncle lap top i use copy -paste


17:09:32 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

ghom


17:16:12 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Diplomat The Weirdgrivi:

Sakaal II, granted, there may be religions whose roots lie in more violent texts than others. But no one will hit, kill or harm you because of these.
Those texts just make it easier to pretend to have acted on religious motives, yet that's not true - they simply aren't the cause, but an easy-to-pull-explanation.


17:18:55 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

ghoma i am with you , what is your relegion


17:24:31 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Dakarius:

he's atheist.


17:53:16 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

what that mean ?


18:16:58 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Ghouma:

It means I dont belive in any god or gods or anything supernatural what so ever.


19:01:37 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

so i am only with you into defend islam and sy its not the bad.


19:48:00 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Iwasfrozen IV:

@ Mbeidas,don't call my nation stupid.

yes prodestant and catholic violance is wrong and thats what i mean  when i talked about terrorism in my last post.

both the IRA and the UDA are terrorist groups and i'm not defending them.


19:57:59 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

we also dont have the perfect unite here but soon in about a year all palestinian will be unite


20:01:50 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Iwasfrozen IV:

you palistineinan?

what i cannot understand is why muslims want all the world to be muslim.


20:15:09 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Ithakan:

I dunno, im atheist and I would like to see the whole world atheist.....No wait actually I just want people to stop beeing so stupid and stop killing each other because they think some stupid book says it.

Though purely becomming atheist wont stop this, as the religion of a person has NOTHING to do with his morale.

perhaps it would be best if everyone became buddhist.......


20:21:57 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Iwasfrozen IV:

don't call the Bible a stupid book,or the Quran for that matter either,it might be stupid to you but it means a lot to some people.


20:46:51 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Ghouma:

Yes but since there is no evidence for it you will have to take it being called stupid.


21:41:45 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Mijamoto Mushashi:

WORD  star wars is important to a lot of people aswell ...


21:48:38 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Breadlord:

well im not killing thousends of star wars fans becouse one of them did sometging


22:12:38 Jul 4th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

to some people first thing god creat was a pen and ordered him to wright so it wrote the quran .

ok i am home i will write the evidence here and then copy paste it in jesus as roman and in universe creation also the great evidence that quran is a book from god  which mean ther is one and he made the universe a thing quran said it will happen and it happened in 7 years later as it said .

"the persian emparor attack what is now palestine and syria he took the money from most of churchs and the jews was fighting with him as rebels on the eastern roman empire because they treated them bad .

as the koran say in a verse named as "roman verse" 

alm * the romans were beaten * in the lowest land and after they are beaten they will beat their enemies  *  in few years , god who have the choise what to happened before and after , and when that happened the faithfull will be happy   *   

god is always truly say

now this is the subject the , this is your life barny ,sakaal , iwasfrozen , dake

and all people on earth its the proof evidence

i will translate all now         alm   its alot of words starting in koran when mohamad told us he said god didnt give me the meanings of them so i dont know .

the romans were beaten    the romans was beaten by persia and the historical right i looked in internet also the romans were beaten by persia and alot of people said romans will not get palestine and syria back .

abu baker after he heared the words from mohamad he said its ight but the people of mecca said its imposible and mohamad is lieing all notice that this meaned they were still in mecca and before the leaving to al madina in 1 year 

in the lowest land and after they are beaten they will beat their enemies 

this is the coolest thing , if mohamad really invent the koran the lowest land ment   in JERCHO in palestine its the lowest land like 400- low than the sea and historical it says that the final battle between persia and romans to get back palestine was near jericho and they won. 

now tell me people only knew that jericho was the lowest land in the 20 sentures how mohamad knew before 1428 or 1427 cuz we said it was 1 year before the leaving .

in few years , god who have the choise what to happened before and after , and when that happened the faithfull will be happy .

the few is always known as 3 - 9 . romans got palestine back in 7 years and koran said  in few ye*beep*M>, its historical and i cheked all that took me time and i was in my uncle's house that's also took me time .

and when that happened the faithfull will be happy .

the pretty good thing that abu baker wagered the mecca people on 100 camel (that was before the wager is bad in consider of islam)  it was always bad but islam took the learning little and little as you cant change in a day and night.

back the proof the chrtions are not the faithfull will be happy they got back no no the meaning was

1) mohamad and the small bunsh of muslims made their point that koran is right.

2)abu baker won 100 camel but he didnt have them cuz in this 7 years the wager is said to be bad and not good .

THIS IS HISTORICAL PROOF THAT KORAN HAD A FUTURE SEEN AND SCINTFIC SEEN MOHAMAD WONT HAVE IT IN HIS AGE AND SURE THAT THER IS GOD

i wish all world read this cuz i want to help you

thanks for reading

mbeidas          i am not gonna die why i am saying this


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