Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / Universe Creation

No, definately 'walhalla', in the book it says walhalla, the book is never wrong!

You guys should try argueing with a Fundamentalist....you will always loose.

aaaaaahhhhhhh my head hurts...

Amino acids have been naturally formed from pure elements in labratories before.  Given enough time, life could eventually form in a lab too.

well that was obviously incredibly well thought out but I'm going to try to argue against you.

According to your post the closest thing to god are vacuum fluctuations, because they can create something out of nothing. I agree on this idea but i do not see why it would be more effecent to leave the word god out of the equation. You said that one of these created the universe or became the universe. If one of these things that you consider the closet things to god became the universe then you should consider every thing the fluctuation became the new closest thing to god. There fore the elements it created became the new god and since we are made of those elements then we humans(along with all other life and inanimate objects) are god.

lemme clarify this by your definition god became us, therefore we are god.

definition of god
          the Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe

it fits the definition perfectly. If we go by the definition of being as existing then your flunctuations became or created the universe. Finally the combination of all the parts of god control what happens in the universe or rules what happens.

by definition your flunctuations fit the word god, therefore its a word that would be used to describe the entire idea effectively, where it would only be ineffective if you want to describe it indepth.

what im trying to say is that in this plane of existance we cannot prove anything 100% because one fact could be interperted many different ways.

i personally could careless if god exists or not. I think that whether there is a after life or not it will always be equal for everyone. either we simply disapear from existance and we wont have any emotions to care, or we will all go to the same place. Even if there was a heaven and hell i would not go to hell, because in all the the religions there are no rules against not caring or the neutral area im in.

oh yeah i forgot to anwser that. In my first post i wasnt sayiying life cant spawn under certain circumstances from inanimate objects what i was saying is that the likely hood of the right circumstances to form life from something inanimate comes around very rarely, and even when the chance comes it doesnt mean that it will occur. even with the right circumstances the chances are extremely slim.

sorry if that was pointed to somewhere else

Well sakaal said and i quote "However fortunately there is no reason to assume that Everything needs a cause to come into existence. Why couldn't there be even an unlimited amount of the so called "first causes" happening everywhere all the time endlessly, even after Everything already existed, coming into existence or disappearing again without anything to cause that? Indeed, in modern quantum physics a similar idea is called vacuum fluctuations or virtual particles that can be explained as a manifestation of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle."

then on my comment i said that quantum physics can be intererpted to support science ex: using the word god oversimplifies things, or it can support a fusion of science and religion ex: if a flunctuations can create destroy or warp(im not sure about warp) things then who is to say that these flunctuations dont have a conscious, or you could go with the interpretation that i said in my other post.

Vasmur, yes, actually you gave the same definition for the word "God" I did.

Dakarius, to really understand the creation ex nihilo you should study the quantum field theory. Here is a simplified article explaining quantum fluctuations. Click on the links.

Sakaal the definition is not what matters, it is the interpretation of defintion that matters. I did not spend my time changing the grammatical structure of your post. I simply retraced the facts that you mentioned so that readers who are skiping around know what im talking about. Then at the end i placed my interpretation of the facts.

quote "Also note that if a Creator existed, Everything (by its definition) would include the Creator, because it includes everything that has, does or ever will exist. Actually, "Creator" would be just a synonym for some "first cause" or causes. So, if some Creator existed, it would be the sum of all the "first causes", i.e. all the vacuum fluctuations. That would make God a kind of random noise with powers described by probabilistic distributions and scaled by the reduced Planck constant. In fact, the word "God" is no longer needed for the purpose of explaining Universe creation, because we can do it better without that word."

your interpretation of facts said there is a god but it simply creates,  which makes the word god useless because it cannot change historical events(when i say this i mean wars and the such) or judge.

quote "lemme clarify this by your definition god became us, therefore we are god."

this does not lead the word to be useless, it could mean god is a collective concsience as believed in shaministic beliefs.

btw thanks for the links

More precisely I argued what god would be as a creator, if it existed. I was not discussing the other meanings that might be associated with some god or gods. After all, this is a thread on Universe Creation, so to stay on topic we should discuss the aspects of creation and not something else.

i am in my uncle house he have this computer and not always good wait until i am back to my house

i got proofs and proof in koran and flex net will be soon get hacked by my cosin .

just let me tell you in my house . stop talking about god he can see what eyes see , as he said :

"he knows what eys can see and what hearts wishs"

Are you in any way related to the things happening in England?  

 ' the universe is at it's end',  'my cousin will hack', ... 

Mr. Mbeidas Edit post 7/4/2007 5:12:38 PM

to some people first thing god creat was a pen and ordered him to wright so it wrote the quran . ok i am home i will write the evidence here and then copy paste it in jesus as roman and in universe creation also the great evidence that quran is a book from god  which mean ther is one and he made the universe a thing quran said it will happen and it happened in 7 years later as it said . "the persian emparor attack what is now palestine and syria he took the money from most of churchs and the jews was fighting with him as rebels on the eastern roman empire because they treated them bad . as the koran say in a verse named as "roman verse"  alm * the romans were beaten * in the lowest land and after they are beaten they will beat their enemies  *  in few years , god who have the choise what to happened before and after , and when that happened the faithfull will be happy   *    god is always truly say now this is the subject the , this is your life barny ,sakaal , iwasfrozen , dake and all people on earth its the proof evidence i will translate all now         alm   its alot of words starting in koran when mohamad told us he said god didnt give me the meanings of them so i dont know . the romans were beaten    the romans was beaten by persia and the historical right i looked in internet also the romans were beaten by persia and alot of people said romans will not get palestine and syria back . abu baker after he heared the words from mohamad he said its ight but the people of mecca said its imposible and mohamad is lieing all notice that this meaned they were still in mecca and before the leaving to al madina in 1 year  in the lowest land and after they are beaten they will beat their enemies  this is the coolest thing , if mohamad really invent the koran the lowest land ment   in JERCHO in palestine its the lowest land like 400- low than the sea and historical it says that the final battle between persia and romans to get back palestine was near jericho and they won.  now tell me people only knew that jericho was the lowest land in the 20 sentures how mohamad knew before 1428 or 1427 cuz we said it was 1 year before the leaving . in few years , god who have the choise what to happened before and after , and when that happened the faithfull will be happy . the few is always known as 3 - 9 . romans got palestine back in 7 years and koran said  in few ye*beep*M>, its historical and i cheked all that took me time and i was in my uncle's house that's also took me time . and when that happened the faithfull will be happy . the pretty good thing that abu baker wagered the mecca people on 100 camel (that was before the wager is bad in consider of islam)  it was always bad but islam took the learning little and little as you cant change in a day and night. back the proof the chrtions are not the faithfull will be happy they got back no no the meaning was 1) mohamad and the small bunsh of muslims made their point that koran is right. 2)abu baker won 100 camel but he didnt have them cuz in this 7 years the wager is said to be bad and not good . THIS IS HISTORICAL PROOF THAT KORAN HAD A FUTURE SEEN AND SCINTFIC SEEN MOHAMAD WONT HAVE IT IN HIS AGE AND SURE THAT THER IS GOD i wish all world read this cuz i want to help you thanks for reading mbeidas          i am not gonna die why i am saying this

I was raised at a Christian school and was essentially force-fed the words of the bible. I find that many of the Hardcore christians have something that they regret in their lives. For instance, my 7th grade teacher wasn't religious until she got pregnant at 17 then she got super religious.Oh well, none of it matters. As long as whatever you choose makes you a good person, I dont care. I believe that that is the original reason for religion anyway.

one word...Spore!

I know how the universe was created!

It all starts back in the year nothing.

See, there was this flying chicken that saw the universe and said, "This place looks boring."  So the chicken did a little disco, and then he made the universe.  The reason the universe is moving apart is so they can get away from the pervert chicken.

There, this is truth. :-P

Mr. Razai... I don't believe you spelt and correctly once...  I couldn't even bare to read anything in that garble you spoke.

Wow this thread is old....xD

Anyway, I am a christian, so naturally I believe that god created the world...want proof? read on...

In the last 30 years a number of prominent scientists have attempted to calculate the odds that a free-living, single-celled organism, such as a bacterium, might result by the chance combining of pre-existent building blocks. Harold Morowitz calculated the odds as one chance in 10^{100,000,000,000}. Sir Fred Hoyle calculated the odds of only the proteins of an amoebae arising by chance as one chance in 10^40,000.

...the odds calculated by Morowitz and Hoyle are staggering. The odds led Fred Hoyle to state that the probability of spontaneous generation 'is about the same as the probability that a tornado sweeping through a junk yard could assemble a Boeing 747 from the contents therein.' Mathematicians tell us that any event with an improbability greater than one chance in 10⁵⁰ is in the realm of metaphysics -- i.e. a miracle.¹

Harold Marowitz, an atheist physicist, created mathematical models by imagining broths of living bacteria that were superheated until all the complex chemicals were broken down into basic building blocks. After cooling the mixtures, Marowitz used physics calculations to conclude that the odds of a single bacterium reassembling by chance is one in 10^{100,000,000,000}. ² it's more likely that I would win the state lottery every week for a million years by purchasing just one ticket each week.

Click Here for the site I got that information from.

Also...

Darwin's Theory of Evolution - Slowly But Surely...
Darwin's Theory of Evolution is a slow gradual process. Darwin wrote, "…Natural selection acts only by taking advantage of slight successive variations; she can never take a great and sudden leap, but must advance by short and sure, though slow steps." Thus, Darwin conceded that, "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down." Such a complex organ would be known as an "irreducibly complex system". An irreducibly complex system is one composed of multiple parts, all of which are necessary for the system to function. If even one part is missing, the entire system will fail to function. Every individual part is integral. Thus, such a system could not have evolved slowly, piece by piece. The common mousetrap is an everyday non-biological example of irreducible complexity. It is composed of five basic parts: a catch (to hold the bait), a powerful spring, a thin rod called "the hammer," a holding bar to secure the hammer in place, and a platform to mount the trap. If any one of these parts is missing, the mechanism will not work. Each individual part is integral. The mousetrap is irreducibly complex. [4]

What is stated there could not be proved when Darwin wrote this, but with the advances made in recent times, we now know that many such organsms exist, including the heart.

Click Here for the link to the webpage where I got that information.

The bogus 10^{100,000,000,000}  number is based off of a cell as we currently observe them.  However, this calculation fails to consider that even single cells have evolved greatly from simple strands of chemically-attracted proteins to life as we perceive it today.

Research abiogenesis.

And also, never pull research from religious organizations.  Their "skepticism" only goes so far as science, but absolutely smashes the wall when it comes to religion, believing that God must exist with no evidence to confirm it.

You didn't research abiogenesis yet, did you?

I'll even make it easy, here's a link to a video that has a rather decent explanation of it.  For starters, of course--I encourage you to go check it out further.

 *walks in* "Oh sh*t people arguing about religion again" *runs out*

Sorry, it is just that I have not heard of it in any of my science classes so far in college...maybe in the next year or so I may hear of it.  Teachers have still be rambling on about theories of how life happened and none mention this.

Premedicine...taking chemistry and biology(The Diversity of Life)...then I have anatomy next year...then probably higher science levels...

Mr. Ghouma

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6/7/2007 11:28:29 AMGAD DAM, u know we had this discussion once, that thread went completly mad with people typing thousands of words.

Anyway, since the big bang theory is proven I guess you have my ansver.


Well thats a lie.Its a theory.meaning it isnt proven.it can never be proven what created the world.it can be proven however what DID NOT create the world.i personally think religion.there are theories out there that make more sense then the big bang.Atoms collide in space every day let another universe isnt born every 97 seconds(approximately the time is takes for 1 million of them to collide).