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Universe Creation
16:44:08 Jun 28th 07 - Mr. Ithakan:

the fact that there are so many religions proves one can be easily started without beeing right, and the autority of the people saying a religion is true is the only argument to believe in it, unfortunatly this is a sophism.


21:28:14 Jun 28th 07 - Sir Bruto Cikayson:

"I did not think philosophy was primarily about trying to find what is "best", but what is "true". Well I know parts of philosophy, like ethics, deal with the first, but mostly it is about the nature of truth."

Well, yes.  But when there's no definite "truth" to measure up to, you have to settle for "best".

"At least we have to say they overlap greatly although some areas may be separate."

Certainly.  Thus, by nature, both science and philosophy are "neutral."  A true religion, in my belief, stays within the philosophical field, which means it doesn't try to contradict science like stating how the world was made.  So to say that belief in religion is a lie, idiocy, or worthless is not justifiable.

"A religion is never right ... "

Correct, but neither can it be wrong unless it steps out of philosophy.  It can't be measured into "true" and "false" like science.


22:18:39 Jun 28th 07 - Mr. Wolfsword:

yea but some statue  of mary was bleeding or somthing....i think 0.o


22:29:16 Jun 28th 07 - Mr. Mijamoto Musashi:

Sure, and santaclause comes every year aswell ...


22:31:22 Jun 28th 07 - Mr. Wolfsword:

that to....all i get is coal =(


22:33:05 Jun 28th 07 - Mr. Wolfsword:

and i like the idea of whoever said the the world was made by a *pop* XD


22:48:56 Jun 28th 07 - Mr. Sakaal II:

What makes science and philosophy superior to religions for me is their built-in attitude of self-correction, or even humility, if put emotionally. Everything that is stated in science or philosophy is recognized to be more or less off the truth--already when first stated. Religions usually lack this characteristic self criticism. To philosophy the truth is more like a direction that can be approached but never be reached. The truth is out there to drive man forward in the right direction.

The philosophical approach is more healthy and less prone to misunderstandings. Many people take religious metaphors literally and they actually think everything stated in their religion is some God-given truth. I think this kind of senseless pride makes religions dangerous. People tend to be mislead by religions. It takes a very mature person to be able to see through all the preaching. And religious people usually preach to children and young people who are unable to handle the material independently or see through the bias.


On the difference between what is "true" and what is "best":

Personally I think science and philosophy should be reserved for the truth-seekers. Those who seek what is best, are leaders and managers, decision makers, of at least their own lives. You need to know what is best when you want to make the right decisions on something where subjective interests are involved. In doing so, you will need a subject first and then you can start thinking of what is best from the subject's point of view.

There is no such thing as "objective best, right or justice", because the concepts of "good" (better, best, right, just) and "bad" (worse, worst, wrong, injust) by definition require a subject or several subjects whose interests are being evaluated. So whenever we are thinking about good and bad, we have actually moved to decision-making, i.e. leadership and management. It is not really very philosophical anymore. There are no truths, just conflicting subjective interests.

From the above you can see that I consider ethics/morals branches of administrative or management schools. I do not think philosophy should use the concepts of good and bad to try to value anything. About good and bad, philosophy should just state something like: For a subjective entity, a categorization between "good" and "bad" things can be done by evaluating them against the subject's interests. Each such evaluation is subjective and out of the scope of objective philosophy. The evaluations can be used for example in decision-making cocerning the subject.

In short, to me ethics is not really philosophy, but administration. I would also go on further to argue that science, mathematics and logic are (more formally restricted and specialized parts of) philosophy.

Religion has links to ethics and tries to answer the same questions like philosophy. So I see religions mostly as (outdated) competition to modern philosophy. However, the real competition these days happens within the school of philosophy, religions still remaining more like idiosyncratic remnants of man's past attempts at knowledge of life, death and beyond. To me philosophy is more "professional" truth-seeking whereas religions are for "amateurs and quaks".


23:40:54 Jun 28th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

GOD creat the universe of course is it need a qution even look at the beuti in night can a simple or a machine make this no star hit anther and all is calculating in weared way thats an evidence

 


00:09:01 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Ithakan:

what it beatiful is determined by your mind. The things you see are made by nature through billions of years of evolution and trial. There is no evidence that this is made by a god. It would be rather unlogic of nature to first form a perfect god out of nothing and then that gods creates an imperfect universe.....

 

and btw why would a god want us to wear silly hats, whine to him for stuff and in the meanwhile let our fellow men cripple? How about you spend all that time you pray for voluntarily work.


10:12:23 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

holy koran is evidence the bible is evidence the old testemnt is evidence .

GOD creat the first things and sun then the earth came from sun cuz he order the sun to do it we muslims god a line in koran said :

"and i creat the universe in six days and i sit on my thrown in anther "

and that give us a word its the god he is the most almighty and can creat in seconds to learn us patiant .

and if i pray my 50 year in life i then go paradise for eternal but if i made bad things in those 50 year i go hell for eternal think about it .


10:15:02 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

Mr. Bertrand IN Shame

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6/9/2007 12:22:07 PM
OK, then tell me, who created your god then?

 

about this man i say to him that is secret GOD will tell us when we ask him if we go paradise after armagdon .

but mohamad told us that GOD was the first in nothing but he told us that he dont know more cuz GOD didnt tell him as no body knows


10:21:12 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

this topic must be deleted ort i will hack and delete it i cant hear that ther is people dont belive in GOD .

here is a merecals still exist

ther is well in meca endless pure water . god gave it to people live in desert hows so ?

this game was made by swidish and most of them dont beleive in GOD best game with java script and i hate the creators ther is nothing perfect.


10:23:05 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mijamoto Musashi:

you are a fool ... nothing more ... (maybe you're joking?)

go to a convent and lock yourself up.


10:56:16 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

i gave you a proof and its really ther 2 mill people go on 1 day to see it


12:04:09 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Ithakan:

I cant believe you still believe in god after the countless of times the church has been proven wrong and science gave proofs on who your so called miracles occur, like your spring that is easily explained by how springs are formed.


12:35:02 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

all i can say to a man saying that is GOD tell you the way


12:38:31 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

and so what is the proof the scince of GOD is the creation . if i talk in this subject with you i will be same as you not all what you touch real.

not everything shine gold

i am muslim not chrtion .chrtion church only made to control peoples money but islam is a thing you cant imagnie ther is rules to every simple .

i said before GOD gave as 2 chioses

1)dont worship me ok welcome to hell.

2)worship me and pray to me and be good as i told you and welcome paradise . and you will say in 1 time i am right


12:39:44 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Ithakan:

that isnt an argument......


12:42:27 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

scintiasts said pure water will be run from earth as population huge growing they didnt say wher this water came .

its water pure from desert and endless .  it cant be puloted and even if you put sand and drink it you will have same as water and you feel no sand but if you do it you will be sick cuz as jesus story with devil . if you really prophet jump and so angels will catch you .

you didnt espect what i will say GOD is the merciest but he will not mercy you for not worship him you say no god fine burn in hell .

mbeidas defnding islam and chrtions here


12:50:52 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Ithakan:

1. scientists never said that

2. that is just a lie, there are no records of it ever beeing tested

3. I will burn in hell for not believing someone who gives no arguments?


13:33:17 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

1) yes they said water and food are running out from earth like petrol.

2) we cant let scintists come to a relegoc place to test the water but they didnt ask to send them .its just endless when you take like 1 liter no water is missed its happening in GOD merecale way .

3) when you see hell you will want to go sorry for GOD but you wont and u cant put your finger on fire for 10 seconds and try the hell for eternal . your are runing around youself in this point .

dude what do you worship ??


13:37:47 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mijamoto Musashi:

go pack yourself with explosives and blow up already ... take some protestants, christians, jews, hindoes, and your own kind, whatever with you ...

go feast on your virgins.


13:44:06 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

we muslims have a simple line with chrtions and we treat them as brothers but your talking about a big problem tell if you can tell me wher this human came i say god creat if you can find me the decent of human is way not by chance you have my word .

GOD laughs on you dude you most of nothing worshiping have hard times

only tell me how humans came ????   give me a decent a reason one ???

and i will go to defend your way !!!


13:46:58 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

Mr. Bertrand IN Shame

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6/7/2007 8:05:18 PM

creationists are criminals ...  aren't they the ones that say that the earth is only 6000 years old?    

Erunion, you are pathetic, unbelievably stupid,  ...    from this point on, i will deny the holocaust.

 

we belive earth was made by million of years but 12,000 year is the time when humans was created by god in heaven then came earth for then back to paradise


14:32:23 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Ithakan:

I am an atheist, I think instead of believe. That is the difference between you and me you assume without doubt what someone told you while I think about the arguments given and then draw a conclusion.

mankind is "created" by evolution


14:47:39 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Dakarius:

I am a Christian, I think and I believe. God and science do not apose eachother as so many of you atheist seem to think, rather science helps to explain this wonderful universe that God has given us. God created it and he takes care of it, but scientific laws help keep it going.


14:50:39 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mijamoto Musashi:

write understandable english and stop using bible or koran (these are not objective books/stories/myths/crazystuff)

study some real books, and real history ... instead of your religioninfested literature (which holds no evidence, it just states things, not prooving them)

we can proove 'evolution', we can proove how old the moon, the earth the sun, whatever is (through logic , math, deduction, science) ...  you can only say, god exists, and that's it ...   bring a decent example of proof that there may be a god  (crying statues and miracles are not allowed, food and water falling from the skies is fantasy, an example that can be backed up by real, empirical evidence or clues, or logic;  saying that the bible said this or the koran said that is hardly an arguement (anyone can make quotes and not understand them))

 

(what do you do about the human bones that were found and dated back 75.000 years?)


15:07:48 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

you are doing as jews they wanted to see GOD so GOD laied a thunder on them tell me who made the human those 75000 year ago as you say GOD did how ther could be 1.3 billion muslim and 1.5 billion chrtion islam started with one man mohamad and thats maybe proved historical more than the bones what about jesus .

the deal is you losed the life and your gonna lose the after life .

if koran is myth so no book NO BOOK IS TRUE and respect you stupid islam and chritiontold us to respect and gave us the rules we live base on them even you do and you only say this cuz not alot people as i see play the game chrtions and the disprley .

mohamad said :"tell people about me even with a sentence".

you dont know what you are doing so tell me how you can think but a bug cant or at least it can but in limit things .

lol why this ??

we are talking about unverse creation what do u think and dont tell me its came like this  . all this came from what wher how when and last but not least who???


15:09:34 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

evolution from what ?? ther must be cheese and bread to make a sandwich


15:10:54 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

and dont tell me evulution from a monky ok then who made the monky i will run in your game to see wher its gonna end .


15:16:10 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Ithakan:

all religions also pagan ones started with one man, so it is possible for one man to start a false religion, now what makes you think jesus/mohammed are right?

I didnt lose life, in fact I probably enjoy it more then you do.

I respect people more then most muslims, who often threaten to kill you when you convert to another religion/ atheisme.

a big cant obviously think because he doesnt have the brain sections to do so.........wich seems quite obvious, if you lose crucial parts of your brain you can think just as much as an ant (people in uncurable coma)

from our ape-like ancestors, (because you said we evolved from monkeys you obviously dont know what the evolution theory actually is)and then from the first organism that probably spawned out of several proteins and other substances


15:27:51 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

jese and mohamad was givin alot of mereclas how you think 30,000 men beat 200,000 men i red about the progress evulation 1 its kinda stupid cuz ther is no air in the universe and those gases cant trasport easily .

BUSTED

i will run in your talking wher did the first thing of the progress came from .

maybe your right and GOD creat the first thing .

and thats what devil wants us cuz this life is end he want us to enjoy and do bad things to be with him in hell as revenge from humans . i say i pray to god 50 or 60 year and i enjoy myself in the paradise for eternal and i think chrtions and even jews are agreed with me .


15:49:09 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Ithakan:

30,000 men beating 200,000 men is NOT a miracle, think of the battle of thermopalea where 300 spartans stopped tenthousands of persian for weeks until they were betrayed, or the battle of azincourt where a small group of british longbowmen massacred the french knights.

please even read what it is before talking nonsence, evoluiton happend on earth, the formation of stars and planets is another thing it is largely in de big bang theory about the creation of the universe and the clustering of interstellar gasses under the force of gravity to form stars  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

the first thing of progress was probably a signularity of infinite mass and density, because of the infinite density time stops so there is no speaking of a point before then.

Also you solution is god made the first thing, then what created god?

yes im so evil I do so horrible things like eating pork, relieving people who have never more in life then suffering and of course becoming a docter to cure hundrerds of people, your right I should get a bomb and blow myself up so I go to heaven.


15:54:43 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mijamoto Musashi:

who made your god then?

if evolution is wrong, then , i'm sure you can tell me who created god?


15:58:44 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Dakarius:

You keep trying to confine God to the universe when he is much more. No one created God, god existed first, he has allways been and will allways be. He is the Alpha nad the Omega.


16:20:45 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

yes god existed and no body came before god god is the began with no start and the last with no end .

and even no one powerfull more .

time stoped if you can run in a speed of light 300,000km in secon so the time become slower look you made a scince and and and just to say your not wrong but its actually your know your wrong but you do this just for talking.

ther is much more than universe ther is 6 universes up this one and then ther is hell and up ther is paradise and up the paradise a little its the god thrown .

maybe bibel and koran are books but they are god books thank you dakarius


16:24:57 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

dude this theory sucks and ther is monkies as that sovit man said biolgy and chmest have reletions but all biolgy chmest .

and so this can make humans deffernet from each time to anther but cant make the universe

 


16:51:19 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Ithakan:

1 you keep saying god is perfect without even proven his existence.

2 if you know anything about einteins theory you would know that space is linked to time and it bends under gravity.

3 wohoo long life prove

4 they are dated, such as much of the rules, for example eating pork was very dangerous in the 8th century because of the fast decay, but nowadays we have the fridge so there is no point in NOT eating pork.

5 I have no idea what you are saying here but it seems like it doesnt make much sence, so I doubt you even clicked the link

6 no of course the theory doesnt explain the creation of the universe, did you think the theory of gravity would? The big bang theory explains the creation of the universe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang


17:04:42 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

1) my problem that i am not talking you face to face i let you see the holy koran THE ETRNAL MERECAL FOR MUSLIMS its mereclae in language and history and and rules AND ITS MADE THAT NO BODY CAN CHANGE A LETTER IN IT AND IF YOU CHANGE IT ON LIKE A PAPER YOU WONT BE ABLE TO PUBLI*beep* .

2)TIME IS THE FORTH MEASURE  and its every wher if ther must be gravity it must be A BIG THINK TO PULL DOWN . (no scence)

3)what happened after life you think ???  or just people forgot our memories and so.

4)GOD dated the universe cuz he created it .

5)your doughs are wrong cuz i told you about man with chmpazi look and i wished you bet .

6)if its not about universe WHAT IN HELL YOUR WRITING LOOK AT TOPIC NAME . 


17:28:36 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Ithakan:

0) stop shouting I can hear you

1) the autority of a book is not an argument

2) yes time is the FORTH MEASURE, and if you even read einsteins work you know that it is linked to space thats why they speak about time-space. Gravity bends space and thus time.

3) you stop the exist, but because the universe if infinite you will probably be formed again somewhere else.

4) dated in the way of old

5) sorry but I really cant think of what you try to say

6) YOU asked ME where humans came from, and I said evolution. but this is not the source of the universe as I said the big bang covers this.


17:34:39 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Dakarius:

1. Why are we using numbers?
2. What is time to some one who is eternal? time is a measurement of the flow of the universe.
3. I like the big bang theory.
4. evolution rocks.
5. Eternal life FTW
6. I rock
7. is a lucky number.


17:36:35 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Ithakan:

we are using numbers because I was replying to all points seperately


17:39:50 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

0)i put caps lock to tell you important things .

1) that book is the first and main islam rule putting .

2) we use time meure most in space put it can be used anywher .

3) as you go hell i go paradise if your belefis not  changed .not beleiving in things doesnt mean its not ther .

4) no GOD date it tell me how can it be dated that no mistake in it that is a work of not normal thing which is god .

5) i opened that site .

6) i will run with you if what your saying right so people can control their isider boddies and if that right tell me how many cell is their in your body .


17:41:01 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

lets use numbers


17:46:31 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Ithakan:

1) still doesnt chances anything about its value and wherever it is right, when all people said the earth was flat it wasnt flat either

2) time is in fact ALWAYS linked to space no space no time

3) you are reversing it because you believe in it doesnt mean it there, especially because there is no prove for its existence. According to your own logics you should take into account infinite possibilities about gods and heavens


17:46:53 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Ithakan:

I g2g, will be back on sunday


17:51:58 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Mbeidas:

god and heaven excuse me even if ther is no space ther is time i know ther would be no sun to rise to make a new day but the seconds goes so its time

i will contiue when your back


21:47:41 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Neratu:

(Mbeidas, remember you can edit your posts so it doesnt clutter the thread up.)

"the first thing of progress was probably a signularity of infinite mass and density, because of the infinite density time stops so there is no speaking of a point before then."

I thought it was impossible to stop time. It may have just gone realy realy slow... trillions of years to our second.

 

Why is every relegion trying to control people through fear? What do you think about more, not getting into heaven, or going to hell? (granted they are roughly the same thing i just want to know which one its thought of as.)

 

Also a book doesnt prove anything, ever, anywhere. A science book doesnt prove a damn thing unless you can test what is being said in the book. Its like a math book stating A = 3 but never giving a problem. Sure, A could be 3, but why is it 3? How is it even important for it to be 3?

 

Also where do all the virgins in heaven come from anyway?

 

You know what, the answer to everything is 42. Prove me wrong.


22:01:07 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Enyalius:

1+2=42? Sorry it's 3, your proven wrong.


22:11:43 Jun 29th 07 - Mr. Enyalius:

just skimmed through some of this, found this quite funny
Mr. Mbeidas

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6/28/2007 5:40:54 PM

GOD creat the universe of course is it need a qution even look at the beuti in night can a simple or a machine make this no star hit anther and all is calculating in weared way thats an evidence

 Well, to tell you the truth when OUR Solar System was first forming, there were around 60 planets (i forget, maybe more or less, but roughly 60) of all different sizes. They bumped into each other and destroyed each other, that's one theory of how the moon formed. Also Starts DO hit each other, hell even Galaxies have been known to hit each other.

Another thing I do not understand 1)dont worship me ok welcome to hell.
Explain to me this, what if a person is a very good man (or woman). Practically a saint, helps EVERYONE in anyway possible. NEVER "sinned" in his life (or hers), but does not, I repeat does not bealive in any God. So this "perfect" person who helps everyone, is going to hell?

But yet a person who has killed and sinned his whole life, came to a confesional one day and told everything, and then got redemption (or whatever Muslims do) goes to heaven just because he supposedly feels bad and "suffered" enough to be let into heave just because he belives in God?



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