Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / Jesus as a Roman

there may have been a man named jesus back in the day (yes i know its a translated name but w/e) but until you can prove that man was the son of God i will remain in the conclusion he is a fictional character or a crazy person....how many people today would be taken seriously if they proclaimed to be our saviour? i think it just shows how suggestable and ignorant people were back then, because there is no proof at all of jesus existing, the whole "i can ressurect myself making my body vanish and only to return to a few followers" who them selves maybe insane leaves the arguement of whether jesus was roman or not rather pointless

depends rember brain is the real christ lol.

Lord Anubis Report 3/23/2007 11:49:25 AM

there may have been a man named jesus back in the day (yes i know its a translated name but w/e) but until you can prove that man was the son of God i will remain in the conclusion he is a fictional character or a crazy person....how many people today would be taken seriously if they proclaimed to be our saviour? i think it just shows how suggestable and ignorant people were back then, because there is no proof at all of jesus existing, the whole "i can ressurect myself making my body vanish and only to return to a few followers" who them selves maybe insane leaves the arguement of whether jesus was roman or not rather pointless

what in the world made you think that jesus did not exist and that there is no evidence. the Bible is the most reasuring peace of evidence that there was such a thing as jesus. and there are absulutly NO countridects in the bible. hundreds of books from old all point to the same conclusin, Jesus is real. and the devinchy code? BLAGH! all that is lies. they have absulutly no evedence what so ever. they could have easly added scirpture to those documents that they found. what if they were all wrighten by one person? there is only one of those documents concerning the same therie, and that proves that the bible and everything in it over powers the divinchy code or atheiast.

sigh swifty you make me chuckle :D lol

the same evidence as when we look at egyptian pyramids, aztec temples and so on......there are too many people placing all this faith on a book that has be translated so many times, that its probably not the same book it was when it was written....the patrent (sp?) saint of england is george....he killed a dragon, now where are the remains of this dragon, is the dragon a metaphor for something else? theres no proof so why should i believe that happened....it's just word of mouth.....and like in chinese whispers details change. So jesus's story could be the same, maybe jesus was a metaphor....and people are missing it over bad translations. Not to mention the saviour of the whole world only seemed to care about the middle east....maybe if the man did live, only thought the middle east was the entire world? so making him the son of god seems unlikely no?

Thank you Seraph. Lord Oya. Say you write a book, any book. Have it translated by a good publisher into german french and arabic. Now have an arab, a frechman and a german read the three versions. They all speak english. Have them read those books outloud in english, and guess what, they'll all have the same meaning! Amazing!

What you don't seem to realise here is the fact that they didn't translate it from greek, to latin, to old french, to old english, to middle english then finnaly to modern english. They translated it from the greek to the latin, then someone else translated it from the greek to the old french, then one from the greek to the old english, another from the greek to the middle english, and another from the greek to modern english. Repeat process with the hebrew portions. And, by the way, it was (approx) 5000 people he appeared to after he died. Not a few insane followers. And he did care about the world, he told his disciples to go preach to all the world (paraphrasin here, I'll check the biblical source if you want me too...) The problem with them was that they wouldn't live long enough to take it very far. If they tried going to the far east (which they might not have thought existed) it would have takin years, across dangerous territory, and they wouldn't know where they were going. So what did they do? They spread the gospel in the most densely populated part of the known world before going far afield.

Alright then Oya, what proof woul dyou need to believe in something? What do you believe in? Nothing? Evolution?

And the bible is a compilation of 66 books, none of which conflict and all of which proove the other. If you don't believe word of mouth as well as 66 eyewitness acounts, none of which conflict, you would make a very, very bad juror...

your speaking of one mans principles, doesn't mean the bible hasn't been altered.....history has been changed numerous times to make certain parties look better.

your metaphor is a rather naive and uneducated way to try and debunk evolution, many various factors take place for live starting on this planet.....but because we exist we must be special right? the perfect distance from the sun, that lucky chance we have oxygen in our atmosphere oh hell we even got water, stone me! what are the odds? the point is we are lucky and we exist because these parameters have occured by chance, there are hundreds of trillions of stars and planets in our universe eventually just one might be right for life. evolution takes time and alot of luck....but once it got going it wasn't just pure chance, life adapted to its surrondings...like the eye for example, cells become sensitive to light for some reason maybe they are damaged or mutated (the chance part) now these cells have become of millions of years photogenic, ie affected by light, eventually these cells become more adapted to understanding the light its being affected by, then another mutation happens, simply by chance, maybe one of the offsprings DNA was structured differently....it happens (its why i dont look like you :P) then the cells form a cove in the epidurmas...lots of photogenic cells affected by light....another mutation  maybe the DNA produced to many of these cells and caused an overlap of cells, maybe these cells arent photogenic and there for the ones that are become even more specialised. another mutation for any given reason (chance that i role a 6 on a die is 1/6....but sometimes the 6 comes up) the cells overlap entirely creating a lens, the cells are very thin and light passes through easily onto the photogenic cells....after all this time of having these specialised cells mutations in the brain may have occured to cope/understand them better.....a link between brain and soon to be eye! then after while the rest mutates bla bla bla....and before you know it an eye has been created....not designed. playing this game you should know that there is still a chance something can happen....you can fail an attack at 99% or even win at 1%.....a chance is a chance

no....of course it doesn't, why must things be created in order for you to feel safe....is it a scary thought to you that things just happened without a conscienceness who loves us? and your theory on DNA losing information is incorrect....information isn't lost or gained...it is rearranged. And would only be lost or gained if say a mutation occured because of radiation exposure.

Ah, you think I feel safe? Yes, because I know I'm not going to hell. Now, what does it take for you to feel safe? Obviously you can't come to grasp with the fact that you are not, in fact, in complete control? And in order for an organism to "evolve" Information has to be gained, they must gain some information. It cannot be rearranged to change from a tiny little droplet into a human.... It has too be there in the first place.

i don't need to feel in control, i dont't have any real fears.....i don't have to feel like someones watching over me to feel safe, i got my own back for that.....and if something goes wrong im the one that made the mistake...i cant blame it on a god or anything thats just a cop out.

also your knowledge of DNA is very lacking please don't speak about things you clearly need to research first.....DNA/RNA lose information constantly in cells, thats why they die....you see the mutation your describing is known as cancer, adding segmants to DNA does not help the being, DNA is rearranged as it is a code to change a certian attribute of said being

First off, dragons are dinos, dinosuars had small nostrils like the size of horses. When they were endanger they breathed heavy through small holes. Lots of hot air comes out, thus the rise of legends of fire breathing. Who knows we do have a fire breathing beetle in africa.

Secondly reptiles never stop growing.

Third, if you test the air bubbles in Amber, the fossilized tree same, the air has double oxygen and more pressure.

Forth, in that kind of environment everything lives longer, everything grows bigger.

Fifth, there are tons upon tons of skeletal systems of tribes of people 8 feet tall average.

Sixth, in the bible, pre-flood the bible claims that there were not only "giants" but also people living to be 800 years old.

7th, this theory was tested in Japan in a green house with plants. The plants produced more fruit and bigger fruit and grew much larger.

8th, Baby Jessica used a hyperbarrick chamber when she fell down the well. They said her legs could not be saved and needed to be cut of*beep*erman doctor said use the chamber her legs regained almo*beep*ll circulation. A hyper Barrick chamber is double oxygen and double air pressure. people heal faster in them.. Athletes use them. You also age slower.

9th the atmospher would have had to have been 2-3 times its size.

10th The bible claims in the start, there was water in the sky.. And it didnt rain before the flood. Which if compared to observable science and logic would imply that water blocked out harmful radiation from the sun, and the whole earth would have been a giant perfectly misted greenhouse possibly. People started dieing faster after the flood. Also you cant use the idea that those years are measure differently because the same Hebrew word is used in contexts refering to the same amount of time through out the bible.

11th, the bible was claimed to have been changed over time, then they found the dead sea scrolls. The dead sea scrolls prove the bible has basically remained unchanged for 2000 years. Only simple conjunction words changed and a few verses with clarification sentences shorted. If you do the research its indisputable. The bible has not changed

12th, There is more SECULAR (or non christian) writings about Jesus and his life than any other person in history. Im referring to writings during his time. If you believe George Washington was a real man, it takes more faith then to believe Jesus was.

13th, Jesus had to be a liar, a lunitic, or actually God. You cant claim to be God and not be one of them. Read Mere Christianity to follow this line of reason. Its worth it to either shut your arguments up or others arguments. pretty cool read by CS LEWIS

14th we live in a postmodern world, people dont reason anymore, absolutes are forgotten which is retarded. How can someone say they are absolutely sure there are no absolutes if their are none? LIFE AND LOGIC prove that is retarded. So there is absolutes, some people are still modern thinkers. So please dont say its a pointless debate.

15th this debate is the most important debate of human history. ITS YOUR LIFE, YOUR SOUL IN QUESTION. Its so important the whole world has been influenced and altered do to Jesus and His influence.

16th, I was a skeptic, the more you search and dig to try to disprove, the more you prove Jesus is who Christians believe he is. Try it for yourself.. its eternally worth it.

hail to GOD the only god. "jesus is no god" jesus came to jews to make their relegion easier because god put so many hard things on them cuz they were bad so he then sent jesus to make jews life better and jesus came in weard way that he has no father cuz ther was no good man to marry mary to make a prophet so he came in strang way . also jesus didnt creat the chrtion relegion which mean chrtions are wrong though jesus life was hard but he was kinda like by people which made people like him but priests of jews hate him so they start it with romans as same point priests hate jesus and romans didnt want a rebalion or anther rebellion in judiea so the allince between jews and romans began and they agreed to make jesus come to court ask him qutions no problem what the answers just to make it justice in look of people cuz people liked jesus what he done by merecals god gave him and they was gona excute him whatever he say and the murder began jesus didnt put on cross and didnt die to make the humans fult gone and he didnt secfise jesus didnt die cuz he must die at end whch i will explain later after what happened with him in court.

so jews was judges and romans was the soliders they bring him but not jesus before they find him was teaching his 12 student he asked them who give his life for me so the youngest said i give it my teacher he said ok in anther merecale and in seconds jesus was lifted to paradise and that man the student was four i mean his face into jesus face so they the romans men fond the student and they thought its jesus and bring him to court cuz he was jesus student  he was cleaver and answered the jews judges well and perfect which made them what they wanted to do is kill him and that what happened .

as holy koran say : "they didnt put him on cross and didnt kill him it was the like him and we have it in paradise after we left him up skies"

god is the greatest  always truly say.

now why jesus didnt die what was the reason the rason was for this what the life would be before it ends  muslims and jews this is the war between muslims (good people) jews ( bad people) on the holy land of palestine as the master and the prophet mohamad say : muslims fight on eastern side of river and jews on the west "  this was the river jordan as he continued that muslims want to libra palestine from jews from jordan as he said also : you muslims will fight as heros so the tree and stone fight with you telling you and speaking if there was a jew hidden behind only 1 kind of tree wont talk its grkad and its jews holy tree .

wher is jesus turm its here in the great battle of world and its a sowrd only fighting all the guns will gone the leaders of muslims in the battle are the reall jesus and elmhdy which jesus is the real man not the faked jesus and elmhdy is a man a muslim god made him the smartest man ever knowing every thing in math scince almost every thing from the earth scince and the leaders of jews are the faked jesus and the devil and the battle were between muslims men powerred by god and jews and devil elves this battle was said who will win and i proudly say muslims and the time is max of 100 years forward and the battle comes like this the real jesus kill the fake jesus in lod a city west from jerusalem whcih mean the muslims won at the river and they are in jerusalem but devil will not be killed but he will back in central earth and elmhdy kill the pig and drop the wine to tell the world that its time for humans to end from adam gone from paradise to earth and adam only gone from paradise to back in it .

i wish i cleared the thing as possiable for people espeasily chrtions as the koran say the orthudx will be near muslims and catholick be near jews and god give us peace till that and make u muslims .

i forgot to tell jesus is a muslim

errrrrmmmmm thats the biggest load of sht ive ever seen

why does your god divide people in two categories and send them to either heaven or hell? isnt that a bit naive, black and white thinking? maybe he is still a child and not a fullgrown god yet. what happens after the apocalypse? why did god give the church a monopoly on religious matters. could i be a jew, a christian, and a muslim at the same time? can i play visual-utopia in heaven or hell?

sometimes i really hate us 6 billion apes living on this planet most of them actually believing they are some godly creatures above other lifeforms... i have never understood how so many people can be so blind. god save us from the believers. we have to educate billions to start to get it right. religious people should not be allowed to talk to anyone under 18. mindwashing innocent children is just wrong. who cares if jesus existed or not. it is a 2000+ years old story for gods sake. try to come up with new ones.

the god dont divide people he give all of us a chance and its our desigen wanna not worship him and not folo his orders go hell you want to worship him and folo orders and change your life for him come to paradise .

GOD must be respected and the god i am talking about is who chrtions say he is the father GOD gave you eyes to see and gave you legs to walk and all that if he made you blind for 2 reasons 1) he want to see how loyal are you and 2)if he make you blind he give you somtimes anther good thing like good thinking, happy family, or anther sence.

and i told you the black and white is your disigen i only talked about jesus cuz that stupid he is chrtion and hate jesus !!!  i only told him no and told the great story about jesus if we muslims like him cuz he will do for us .

and you cant say about the most almighty a child for 2 reasons most of it respect .1) if you mean child to the greatest almighty dont you go to a rives or see the sea can a child creat this wonderfull universe with no mistakes .and the second 2)cant you respect . look at animals GOD respect you and made you think and gave you good brain he respected you why you dont respect him?   i know he powerfull than you and he dont need you but but you need him .

i need you to translate me "apocalypse" to answer you ?

the relegions of jews and chrtions is ways to serve GOD but since the jews and chrtions preists dameged these relegions GOD sened anther relegion to show them the good way.

about hell and heaven .... in heaven ther is beutythat you will forget visual utopia and in hell ther is suffering that will not let you think of visual u topia

but you can wish that in heaven if you want .

dear arthion you said me not to say that chrtions are bad people look what saakal said and he is chrtion that he dont care about jesus wanna me to translate how can a chrtion hate jesus is it good or bad chrtion in your think

I was talking to Sakaal in the first place not you.

Ms. Maat Report 3/12/2007 7:43:17 AM

jesus never existed, nor did mohammed, just tools to control the ignorant peasantry ...

mohamad exist if its not how could be ther 1.3 billion muslims and jesus exists how ther is 2.5 billion chrtion and these 2 got folowers mor than the half of the world who told you that is only maybe stupid or a jew

i only learned 1 thing in my lifewhich is :

jesus = mohammad .      mohammad = jesus.

chritions=muslims.         muslims=chrtions.

testement=koran.          koran=testement.    

GOD= muslims and chrtions and muslims and chrtions = GOD

i believe the scientific method works in finding better ways of explaining the universe. i cant really see what is screwed in that you can suggest theories and make measurements to see if they work. after a new theory seems to work well it becomes more generally accepted, but you can still criticize it if you find new evidence to prove the theory does not work under some circumstances. and you can always suggest new theories even if they do disprove some earlier ones. now how screwed up is that and where is the weakness?

religious people on the other hand simply make arbitrary claims and all their proof is that other people have made the same claims earlier... sickening kind of conservativism without any real justification it seems to me

mbeidas, i appreciate your input for i have never tried to debate with a muslim. if you are honest and real in what you write, i must say that our cultural difference is huge. the way how you debate is called pathos in western terms. it might be very useful for you from the point of view of this discussion, if you did some homework and looked up the different definitions of the words "pathos" for the style of your own writing and the word "apocalypse" for the substance of one of my earlier points.

Usually pathos is not very useful for other than raising strong emotions in individuals and masses. That is why it is used in religious propaganda for example. Pathos is often counterproductive in intellectual debate.

i only learned 1 thing in my lifewhich is :

jesus = mohammad .      mohammad = jesus.

chritions=muslims.         muslims=chrtions.

testement=koran.          koran=testement.    

GOD= muslims and chrtions and muslims and chrtions = GOD

wher is jews in my world ? i read the history of palestine and their history is black i will translate a peace of book.

after moses runed with the jews from the pharos . they found a people from palestine (as we said jews are the first people worship go but look) worshoping stones so the jews said to moses can u make us a god like what they are serving he was amazed by them . they saw 10 mercals in their eys the latest was make a road in the sea to let them rune from pharos .

then moses gone to the mountain i dont what his name its tor in ours . after he come back from 40 days he found them worsoping a goat made by the gold they stole from pharos before they run , moses get angried and he said your fult can be repaired if you kill yourselves and you even go heaven i would do it myself but they refject moses said: hear and obby but they said we heared and we arent obbying . so GOD was also angried hearing them saying this so the mountain the tor got up of them then moses wanted to save his people saying :hear and obby . so those crepy said we heared and we obbied . so moses chosed 70 men from them to apologies from GOD when they saw him talking to GOD . they said we will not beleive in GOD till we see him so GOD killed them with the thunder but he didnt kill moses . moses beged the GOD that those are the best from people . so GOD give them life again.

are they worth entering my world and my mind well they took a part in fights .