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If we all live like he intended it  would be as if he did exist

jsut that we woulnt even need him :D.

(we al knidof know what  it doesnt nessesarely mean its the way preachers say it)

"*It is a known fact that mutations occur. However, all these mutations are LOSSES of genes. These are fairly common and ususally destructive/dehabilitating. Some of these have been noted to be handed down from parent to child. No mutations cause the gain of genes (to the best of the knowledge in a the scientific field), Nothing has gained genes."

Can you direct me to your source so i can slap him in the face. 

First of all not all mutations are caused by loss of genes. And second, its not common!  Look around you, how many people around you have genetic mutations?  I know you cant tell simply by looking at them.  But seriously, its not common. 

Lucky for you im a physician.  I will explain some mutations which i studied from this book called biochemistry which was written by mother teresa. 

Mutations have many kinds.  hmmm, i changed my mind.  i wont explain it to you.  i'll just give examples of mutations.
point mutation
frameshift mutation
triplet repeat expansion
splice acceptor or deletion

the last two are not caused by deletions, rather by addition or repeat of an amino acid in the genetic sequence which occur during translation. 

also, you might want to google XXXY or XYYY for some of examples of mutations which are not caused by deletions

religion is flawed on so many levels....the people who believe in some sort of diety normally do it either because they lack the ability to question it, or because its comforting for them....(the enevitable death issue we all face)

When I said common mutations,  I was saying that it, among humans and animals, does happen.... And it's not super rare, albeit it is quite unikely.
I was looking at those different syndromes, and every one of them was either duplication, misdirection or another similar thing, not a one was new information. It was all copies or misplaced, or mistakes.
With the letting people do things, God is, as I said earlier, is not being directly involved until he returns. After the fall, sin was entrenched in mankind. That nun was attacked by someone who was most likely following the Religion of Evolution*, and God is not judging the world until he returns. This is because of that man being a rebel, and rebelling against God, as man has done countless times over the centurys. Put it this way, that man was an Iraqi insurgent (or other terrorist etc.) who was in a city owned by the insurgents. That women was trying to stand up for her rights. Now, everyone will be very angry but, until they have given time for civilians who they promised a chance to escape first, they cannot attack without killing civilians, and will not attack prematurely until the agreed on date to attack, then they will take over the city, kill the murderers and criminals and restore justice to the area. They could have come in sooner, but they would have lost half the civilian population of that city in the fighting, something they will not allow until they have to.
Now occasionally God does take an indirect hand in events, and often the nun will instead of being attacked she will have the gardener come in saying that he is finished and if its ok if he goes home now, that gardener (or passer-by etc) will walk in and save the poor nun. (Albeit that poor nun is fairly foolish, nowhere in the Bible does it give any reason to be a nun.)

*The Religion of Evolution.
Evolution is so widely accepted, not because of it's reliability, it is quite un-reliable as I have shown earlier, but because it gives man comfort in "knowing" that they are superior to everthing else, that nothing is above them and since they're just smart monkeys they can get away with whatever they want, such as polluting the world, crime, genocide (Those monkeys aren't as highly evolved, Get 'em!) Etc.

God expects what people will do, but he still gives them the choice to do it instead of murdering the whole lot of them. If you think someones going to become a criminal are you going to butcher them? I don't think so, you try to convince them not to become a criminal, as God often does.

Neratu...dont even bother dude....
Evolution is a religion? hahaha! wow....and i was under the assumption it was just a theory, fine w/e....

i shall say this though, its arrogance like your belief Erunion Telcontar that runs our species into the ground, im mean ffs have you listened to yourself recently... the difference between you and me is, if im wrong i can accept it, you wold deny the truth even if it smacked you in the face.C'mon! we feel superior than apes? i think no such thing, which begs the suggestion if your so narrow minded and predjudice about atheisim or belief other than your own, that your judgement is obvious one from a naive stand point and shouldnt be given any serious thought. you are the one who sees themselves as the superior above  your own species let alone apes.

Lets see 5-6000 people on an aircraft carrier or around 30 million breeding species lets say somehow youre right and its doable.  If he actually did say enough food for 40 days he(god) really screwed the pooch. Lets drain the pacific and see what the floor of that looks like, how much food do you think is growing there?

?  Why did god slowly kill the rest of the worlds population?  He could have picked any means to do it, the quickest being hey lil dude you don't exist anymore.  He chose an extremely slow method,  people struggling for high ground, fighting with others  and animals to get there, hanging on to something floating till  overcome with hunger and exhaustion and no longer able to hang on.  Families watching there children drown  without  any hope of helping them before they themselves succumb.

Yea Nice dude god. wish I new ya.

lol, do you know how to read?  where in the world did you smack us in the face with your reinforced truth?


Admin, pls lock him up............ I mean this thread :P

(Edited by Mr. Surgeon General 1/30/2007 6:42:05 PM)

all life is equal you *beep*! it just so happens that humans are the most adaptive, this doesnt make us anymore superiour....i find it funny how you believe that your religion is correct, there are so many others out there some are more crazy and others  alittle more open minded if not reasonable, so why did you chose your religion? was it force fed to you from a young age? if so i feel sorry for you and if you did'nt get force fed the ideas why did you become religious?

Just want to throw this out there.

Fire was a technological breakthrough, so were stone axes, arrowheads, spears bows...ect.

I have a arrow head from algeria  750000 years old( oops sorry only 6600 years, silly people always burying things father down in the dirt to make em look older then they were)

I beleive christianity started when some ancient civilisation ie, The Romans, wrote a book(The Bible) to cleverly teach their kids good morales through storys. Jesus was some guy who did tricks and therefor was used in their stories, he was like the David Blaine of their time. Who'd hav thought that would have caught on for 2000 years! Although its followers are clearly starting to lose faith!

I've got some questions:
How come there's so many different Christian churches if what you believe is the ultimate truth? (catholics, orthodox, evangelists etc etc)
Also, how can muslims go to heaven if they don't believe in your theories? Or how can any other religious people go to Heaven at all? Maybe their Heaven is your Hell and vice versa? That would make sense in a way. Of course, either side would say they're good and other side is the evil one.
 

ill answer these questions and one other cause i seriously dont want to get into a debate because i do not know enough about my religion to answer all of your questions (due to me being 14)

Alright the so many Christians question. We do not all believe the same stuff (some would argue about this) but catholics basiclly worship the virgin mary. Jews do not believe that Jesus was not the messiah etc.

Muslims cannot go to Heaven with their beliefs period if you have conciously sinned and you have not accepted Jesus into your heart then you will go to Hell. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only Son. That whoever believes in him shall not perish but hav eternal life."

one more thing...

Someone asked how we knew the bible was accurate. If you have not heard the story of Jerico then it goes something along the lines of this. Israelites wanted to get past Jerico. Jerico didnt let them God told them to march around Jerico a certian amount of times each day etc. On the last day of marching they all yelled and the walls of Jerico fell outwards. (as in away from eachother) Scientists founda city. The city was in ruins. The walls fell outwards when it was destroyed. There is one example of many and i do not want to find any mroe at the moment

So God knows that this guy is going to rape that innocent nun who believes in God and has believed in him for her whole life and does everything the Bible tells her to and just lets it happen? How righteous is that...
And I mean, where's the free will if he knows what people are already going to do? If the DNA dictates how a person is going to act in certain situations and God made people and their DNA, wouldn't that mean there is NO free will at all and God has programmed us all in a way that some do good and some do evil? And if that's so, how can God judge those people who do bad and make them go to hell if it was him that gave them the DNA that would make them do that evil?

"Did they just know how to farm then? how to hunt?"

Actually, since they only took 2 of each kind with them (animals and I'm not sure but that should have been plants too) how could they even have hunted/farmed at all without making some species extinct? I mean, if you have two elephants, they're not going to procreate that fast really and you know, just having two of each species is running kinda risky...I mean, even nowadays with 100's of animals from same species they may get extinct.

Also, about the flood. Did God put the water on the Earth and then removed it? And was it salt water or sweet water? I mean, did he took all the salt out of the oceans before he flooded the world or...? Because as far as I know, salt in the soil isn't very good for plant growth.

i will answer this too (some colors are funky sorry bout taht)

alright first with the rape question. Lets say you are taking a walk around teh block. There is a fork in the road. You have two choices and it doesnt really matter which you take. You have the option right? yes you do that is free will right there. God jsut knows WHICH choice YOU will make. And with the rape thing he LETS you have free will he doesnt MAKE you do anything. if he dfid then EVERYONE would be Christian and believe the same thing.

cant remember all the psot but i will asnwer the flood question.

What i believe is taht he destroed the earth and recreated it. (as in all the trees and everything so no plants were takin) it rained for 40 days and 40 nights. so therefore it was fresh water. it took a total of over 100 days for the whole flood from beggining of teh rain to when it was all dried up to finish. God gave adam and eve long lives (both over 900 when they died) and people lived long like that for a while so why couldnt he do that to the animals too? and he mostlikly gave food for the humans (noah and his family) to live off of and who knows mabye some animals are extinct cause of the flood. look at the dinosaurs

http://www.bidstrup.com/bible2.htm

hey funny sitehad me laughing my *beep* off:)

DA, I think that what KK is trying to say here is that God is a little bit of a witch who can predict one's future choices.. Like the witch, he doesn't interfere so you have free will but he knows how you will use your free will.. Or something like that.. :)

"Humans are not superior beings, and If I remember right...

Adam was made first, and everything else was made to please him. That includes all animals, plants, fish, birds, and females. As for races of another color i forget, don't remember reading about that in the bible, although I do remember hearing the church use that as an excuse to persecute them.

So according to the bible, the white male should rule everything. Hmm who else has said that..."

In fact, we are superior, as although God has made some animals to have traits we don't, we do have a far superior brain, etc.

Neratu. The animals were created first, Adam was created last as a caretaker of creation. Eve was created because Adam would get quite lonely with a few thousand animals and plants to take care of... Man was also created to worship God. We did live almost a thousand years, but because of worsening living conditions and the fall bringing sin, and with it diseases etc, we started having progressively shorter lifespans.       This doesn't mean that we were supposed to own creation, we were left in charge, to take care of it, not destroy it.

The people who lived in Jericho were warned that they would be attacked, and given a chance to surrender. They decided that these people who had marched north couldn't get into their walls, and decided to fight instead of staying there.

With the so-called "Dark Ages"... The "Dark Ages" were the time when christianity was starting to catch on, it was only fully immersed throughout Europe at the end of this time. However, during this time there were far more advancements then you would think, especially near the end of this age. Engineering of large structures and bridge building were being re-discovered at this time, resurrected from the ashes of what the barbarian hordes did to the world, who, in effect, destroyed most of the improvements put forward by the Romans during their conquest. The Eastern part of the Roman Empire however managed to hold on for a long time even with the barbarian hordes, because they had embraced Christianity strongly there.

Near the end of the dark ages windmills and watermills and other such improvements were being made, largely sponsered by the church of that time. After the dark ages, when christianity was being fully immersed in the world, a time of great improvement came on, with living conditions going steadily up as well as other technologies/astronomy being sponsered by the church (often cathedrals were used as observatories). Albeit there were set-backs caused be narrow-minded popes (who held altogether too much power. According to the bible they should not even have existed....), as in the case of Galileo, these were often rectified when that person died. 

the fundemental difference between science and religion is the first is advancing all the time, changing its understanding of our world. religion is in a unchangable book or scriptures which must remain the same (spesh for religions with a deity) or the point of it would be lost...

science vs religion will be an on going debate until our culture and species has grown up alot....we still have borders in our lands, and we're still shallow enough to have greed over material possesions. until we have matured, we shouldn't be questioning what we have...i only got involved in this thread because of the blatent imposing opinions of either side (mine included by atleast i can admit it) we shouldn't try to convert other people, but we however should give people the equal choice to learn the way they want to from both sides no matter how flawed you may see the other arguement they still give comfort for those that "follow" them.

this is kinda late (was just skiming through and saw killer kings post)
Catholics do not worship the virgin mary. We honor her for bearing Gods only son, Jesus Christ.
I have no idea why everyone is under the misconception that we worship her.
We pray to her so that she may possibly intercede on our behalf.
Just wanted to clear that up :)
Don't bother argueing for or against this since it is just what we believe.

"I'm not gonna say I know much about the dark ages, but wasnt alot of it caused by very corrupt romans + another force in the north pushing the barbarians south?"

Quite so. What I was talking about is the Eastern part of the Empire managed to hold on because of a lack of corruption compared to the western part, this lack of corruption was mostly because of the strong roots christianity had on civilization there. The Barbarian hordes swept south because they were being pressured, by what, I do not remember.

"Women were made because there was only one human, and, unlike the animals, there would only ever be one human unless woman was made, and soon there would be far too many animals for poor Adam to deal with..."

I don't remember that, I was under the impression Adam was lonely and Eve was made for him.

"Until then there was no poison, no sin (causing murder etc), no disease, in fact, nothing inside Eden could cause death. Unless you fell out of a tree..."

Poison is in creatures, so after sin they gained poison all of a sudden? Also disease is caused by living organisims, so did they not exist in eden? or were they corrupted after the fall?

"They had their poison but they had no need for it. Lions would play with lambs and then with the entry of sin, animals had to kill to survive. They couldn't just eat berries any more or else the surplus populace of the other animals would overwhelm the Earth."

So why did they have poison?

And why does eating an apple cause other animals that had no part in it to be forced to suffer and die?

"They had poison because once their berry only nature was taken away they had need for it."

That isn't an answer, saying that MEANS it was a predetermined destiny. I'm asking why would they have need of poison in eden.

"If no animal had ever been killed the Earth would be overrun."

This also isn't an aswer. Why do the animals suddenly have to kill eachother, would they even know how to?

For that matter does that mean lions were vegetarians? Were humans?

"Speaking of which, if everything evolved as you seem to believe, how did animals get their poisons? Did their saliva become toxic from eating?"

I don't realy know but I can take some guess by what I DO know, and some stuff I looked up. Poisonous creatures can be eaten by some animals who have immunity and the poison of those creatures becomes poison in the creature that ate it.

As to how poison evolved, it quite possibly just happened to work, a plant or something somehow became poisonous because whatever was in it did not agree with the creature that ate it, thus over time it would prosper and become even more poisonous, but thats a guess.

Venom is different, im not realy sure. The venom of a Komodo Lizard is interesting cause its not true venom, its actually just tons of bacteria within the saliva.

Venom is what, made of protiens and enzymes that have to be created, I think from a modified saliva gland. I realy am not sure. I looked it up and all it says is venom is a highly specialized saliva.

Anyone else have an idea how it came to be?

Evangelicals are supposed to be taking the bible word for word as the literal truth.:)    Fun.

I find praying to the flying spaghetti monster to be much more full filling. Since i have found the Meatball laden one life has taken on more meaning, there is a richness that was not there before.  Plus Flying Spaghetti Monster God and string theory actually work well together.