Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / Universe Creation

You consumed to evil Spaghetti monster? It will now eat us all from the inside! Were Doomed! Doomed!

i say the creation is a mindless dream

Although I don't believe there is a god... I'd bet if there was one, he'd eat Pop-Tarts!

I second Ironpick's theorum of Post. It is scientifically sound, and waits only to be proven.

Im still curious what things pointed to gods existance, can I get a reply on that?

"The documented miracles, a recent one being this (of course, you might just call this a vast coincidence). A man ran an orphanage in Germany a few hundred years ago, but lacked funding. One morning, he and the 200 some odd orphans didn't have any food for an orphanage, so they prayed. In the middle of the prayer, a milk runner to the city, who's cart had broken down, came in and offered the milk since it would go off otherwise. A baker nearby decided to send enough bread for all of them, and they all arrived just as the orphans finished praying. Miracle, or coincidence?"

id say a bit of coincidence and nice people.

"Just a few things like that, the human eye for example, has a cable that grows from both the brain and the eye, the cables meet in the center, and the approx 1 million nerves in that cable connect on both sides. If we just happened by chance, how come all those million nerves are connected in my eyes, in your eyes, in Neratu's eyes, in Ironpicks eyes etc?"

well the eye evolved to that point... originally all it did was detect light/dark, its gotten better. It's not the best eye out there though, I mean look at eagles and such, they can see much farther and much sharper then human eyes can.

Just incase i somehow missed what you were saying, the reason the nerves connect so well is because they are encoded to do so by our DNA.

Honestly I am not sure this is the answer cause I'm limited by knowledge.

DNA is composed of Amino Acids to encode protein to form the dna. If there is an error in this, then there is an error in the dna. if theres an error in the dna, theres an error in the cell, and so on and so forth. Generally a person will have many many mutations within their body. Nearly all of them are harmless, some are beneficial, some are harmful, and even fewer go both ways.

And if memory serves the codon (i think the code for inscribing dna) is made by the chromosomes which come from both parents. If theres a mutation there... then theres a mutation in the encoding etc etc. Pretty sure most mutations are harmless because the body has a few saftey features set up i think... i know if a cells dna is different then the original dna it suicides.

(someone who knows more about this subject feel free to clean up what ive said.)

"Just a few things like that, the human eye for example, has a cable that grows from both the brain and the eye, the cables meet in the center, and the approx 1 million nerves in that cable connect on both sides. If we just happened by chance, how come all those million nerves are connected in my eyes, in your eyes, in Neratu's eyes, in Ironpicks eyes etc?"

Granted the human eye is pretty good design.  Yet many other things in humans aren't designed well if you believe in some greater power making us.  Infact if there was a God that designed us, he did a poor job overall.

Since it got delted...

I still think if there is a God (you'll never convince me there's even the slightest possibility of it, it defies logic), I'd bet he would eat Pop-Tarts!

Well the fact that every human being thats ever existed has a set of morals they are born with.How would we have gotten those if not for a supreme being putting them their for our benefit. I mean how else would people get the idea that stealing is wrong? We say its bad now because its not fair to the other person, but we think that only because of the morals we were given.

Even the Leading atheist of the world can't answer the question "If their is no supreme creator or being than why do we have these morals"?

He didn't have to. He did. If you created a fantastic universe with a perfect creation, wouldn't you want to rest and just look at what you did?

Also, he being Omniscient, he knew we'd need a day off, so he established it. At least, that's what we like to think. It could even be true...

""If their is no supreme creator or being than why do we have these morals"?"

Humans are social creatures.  We rely on communication and teamwork for survival since we are ill-adapted for pretty much anything else.  (No hair to keep us warm, no claws to hunt with, no tails to keep us balanced or to climb with...)  So throughout the milleniums we learned what sort of behavior we should bear for our fellow man and our community as a whole.  Which includes not stealing, murdering, lying, etc.  Basically, our morals are just human instinct, and are expanded upon through our parents, school, peers, heroes, etc.

Now, that's not say to say instinct can be broken, or that humans adapt in a different way (aka vice.)

Wow this thread is still here.
Why do so many ppl asume that Genesis is literal? The bible is full of parables and the story of creation could well be one of them. Just imagine the bible saying billions of years ago there was a massive explosion stars and planets formed followed by billions of years of evolution etc. No one back then would have understood it, so it is probable (not 100%) that the creation in the bible was a story.
So many think that the earth is only a few thousand years old when there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Is it not possible that god set off the events that science tries to describe for us? Aditionaly God is eternal, so what does time mean to him? Without the universe there would be no time so god precedes time.
note to Atheist: What I propose shouldn't contradict your beliefs in any way (except for the god part) so why don't you consider the possibility? Oh and if  you continue to argue against god (I'm sure you will) I will give you proof of god's existance via incredibly perverted logic.

"Oh and if  you continue to argue against god (I'm sure you will) I will give you proof of god's existance via incredibly perverted logic." show the proof?

I seriously hope some of you guys are just joking ... there is some sick stuff in here ...

Proof of the Existance of God Via Incredibly Perverted Logic
First answer me this: Is the Universe infinate or potentialy infinate?

Proof of the Existance of God Via Incredibly Perverted Logic
Second Question: Is there even a miniscule possibility that there is an infinatly powerful God?

Proof of the Existance of God Via Incredibly Perverted Logic
Can you disprove it?

I think being put here by aliens is a more viable options than believing there was a god who did ... (although i doubt it would have happened consciously),

you, godmaniacs, who deny every scientific fact ... i suppose nuclear plants and bombs aren't really out there ... we can't even work out how the material degrade? carbondating?  but we can make nuclear stuff (rontgen, weapons, tools) ...?

pretty convenient that you cannot point anything that actually helps you, the ark was never found ... (because there was maybe no ark, and there sure as hell weren't any babydinosaurs on board) ... nor where there dragons in medival times (where do they get this stuff?, how old are you?) ... etc ...

it is your turn to give real answer, real clues ... instead of denying technologically possible research, research that has been tested over and over again.   it's credibilty is hardly at debate ... your point however, is ...

so, cough it up, or rest silent ...

I don't take it seriously, but there is a flaw... there is no possibility of God's existence.

So what you're saying is God is Q?

Haven't watched much Star Trek TNG eh?

you... described aliens...

as for life on earth ive heard of 3 theories.

god made life

life crashed onto earth (or was placed) my extraterrestial means.

or life evolved from proteins (roughly)

also, since when was the universe infinite? i thought it was just so huge it was beyond the scope of mortal minds.

NO, that would be the devil ... ignorant fool!

This thread was not about the concept of "God". It was about the question how the Universe was born. Well, of course that is not dependent of any opinion any of us might have. People have invented the concept of God because people are control freaks. We think everything have to be "created" or "controlled" by something.

Did God create itself? God probably does not have sex so it should not be "he" or "her". If God does have sex, I wonder why and with whom... Maybe s/he has sex with him/herself. S/he is omnipotent after all. Maybe God can even make itself pregnant and give birth to itself. Doesn't need Viagra or anything even if s/he is pretty old.

Well anyway, I prefer the Big Bang model because it best explains all the phenomena humans have ever witnessed. No other model can so accurately and coherently explain everything we can observe and measure. Of course, if you like you can use any model to explain your environment. For example, you can think that the Earth is flat and that the planets and the sun are orbiting the Earth. You can do that, but it will make you weaker because those models don't depict the Univerese even closely as accurately as the Big Bang model, general relativity, the cosmological principle and other widely accepted theories.

We can choose what we believe in. Some need the God-person for some reason... I'm not sure what they do with it, but many children need some imaginary friend to help them in this cold world. Maybe the God-person can help them, but it or he or she doesn't help much when you really want to understand the world you live in.

If God created you and wanted you to believe in Him or Her or It, why didn't God prove to you it exists? What is the point of giving people free will to believe in what they want, if this Thing is omnipotent, it apparently likes to play games and create poor creatures and let them decide whether they go to heaven or hell, which also must be created by God since everything is supposed to be created by It.

People are still quite stupid animals. People still cannot make the difference between their own imagination and the world they live in. That is why God exists in so many minds. People need God like they need dreams in their scary little minds, two afraid to face the reality. Stupid animals we are. Go to war against each other because we believe in different Gods. Even people who believe in the same big dream kill each other. We get angry when the supposed God doesn't help that. Then we try to find someone to blame. We rather blame someone else, but rarely our own false dreams.

Yes, God does exist, but it only exists as a concept in quite many human minds. And God does not bring morals. Morals are a high human invention that the religious people try to steal and claim their own. What religion and the so called God-person does to morals is distort them and even use them as a weapon of war, propaganda. Morals are not created by gods or preachers. They are created by human beings living together. For example Buddhism does not have a personal God, but it still teaches high morals. Do you think Siddharta Gautama invented morals then? Most definitely not.

Morals have been there as long as there have been developed social interaction between people. Every now and them some preacher starts to teach them like if he just created them. Over one or two thousand years that creates religions, including gods of various kinds.

The best what people can do is make models of the world we live in. I doubt any model will ever be perfect, but currently the Big Bang and the general relativity are two of our best models that really work. If you choose to believe in some other model that is up to you, but be careful. You beliefs can have a huge impact on your personal development, so choosing the best beliefs will make you stronger and help you cope better.

I wouldn't recommend any of the religious stuff to anyone in a sane mind. I only recommend it to weak people who need it to support their otherwise feeble minds and are not smart enough to understand the real world. In other words I recommend it to most of the Earth's population. Only few people are smart enough to understand reality. The rest are better off with gods and other mythical creatures, some epic stuff they can share with the rest of their kind.

I am an atheist (or an agnostic, if we want to really dig in deep the definition of those terms). But I am an atheist in the practical sense. The nonexistence of God cannot be proved, but really you don't have to prove it to me. God needs me more than I need any god. God needs people because it is a story that can only exist in people's minds. People don't really need that story at all. Well, it would be a great story, if everyone realized it is a story. We need good stories, but not ones that are taken seriously when they are just that--stories.

"We think everything have to be "created" or "controlled" by something."

Aren't we?  Controlled by the laws of physics, gravity, instincts?  There are those who would say God IS these, so does that really make them wrong?

"You can do that, but it will make you weaker because those models don't depict the Univerese even closely as accurately as the Big Bang model, general relativity, the cosmological principle and other widely accepted theories."

Weaker is subjective.  I fully agree that if NASA believed the earth were flat, they'd have a really tough time putting spaceships into orbit.  But for the leyperson, it may make no difference what the "truth" is.

"If God created you and wanted you to believe in Him or Her or It, why didn't God prove to you it exists?"

The human mind needs a sense of mysticism and imagination.  It's what makes us human.  If we knew everything, then what?  In Hitch=Hiker's guide to the galaxy, if humans come across the meaning of life the universe ends.  Given, the book is comedy, but it also has some deep philosophy.

"People are still quite stupid animals. People still cannot make the difference between their own imagination and the world they live in. That is why God exists in so many minds. People need God like they need dreams in their scary little minds, two afraid to face the reality."

Imagination shapes the world that we live in, however.  It is vital for our humanity to cross between imagination and the real.

Humans are incapable of facing reality.  We interact using our 5 senses, and it is our brain that controls those 5 senses.  So if you define what is "real" by what we can see, smell, touch, hear, and feel, then schizophrenic people too live in a perfectly real world.

And we can't live without our brains, obviously.  So how can we ever PROVE anything exists?  Just because it is consistant?  Because MOST people believe something to be true?

"What religion and the so called God-person does to morals is distort them and even use them as a weapon of war, propaganda."

This is a generalization.  Not every person who believes in God follows the pope or a preacher.

"The best what people can do is make models of the world we live in."

That's all fine and dandy if you're doing it with atoms and planets, but how do you model something like human rights, right and wrong, and justice?  I am Christian and I believe in science, but no degree of science will explain certain ethereal concepts that effect our everyday lives.

"I wouldn't recommend any of the religious stuff to anyone in a sane mind. I only recommend it to weak people who need it to support their otherwise feeble minds and are not smart enough to understand the real world."

This is funny, because Justice is really only for the weak too, isn't it?  The "reality" of earth is kill or be killed.  Darwin, evolution, natural selection.  Yet do you call those who practice Justice too feeble to understand the real world?

Believing God made the world and all is what I call Christian mythology.  I don't believe it, I think it is an old concept created before science that was never fully believed anyway.  But that mythology is only half of Christianity, and in my opinion, the half that can be discarded.  What I would keep are the core values like love neighbors, honor parents, don't lie/cheat/steal, etc.  Which is what most everyone believes in, even athiests.

So some would call me non-religious, or rather "philosophical" or "humanist."  So basically I believe the same thing as you do, and the only thing that sets me apart is my definition of God, not even my belief.

So basically, I'm not really any more wrong than a metaphor is wrong.