Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / New world Europe Vs US

If the European Union really mattered, they would agree communally on items and stick to them together.  Since this hasn't happened and because it won't due to its components all still being separate countries, I don't really see how they factor in any equation until all of its member nations agree to a common threat or benefit.

It is like the United Nations.  It could be a good idea, but it is still composed of countries that each have their own agendas and priorities.


The USA has never been about perfection, we have certainly made mistakes; for example, we didn't support the Nationalists in China when they were fighting with Mao and his communists.  Believe it or not, in a round about way we are actually responsible for the communist government in place there.  While some things may be serious boo-boos in retrospect, on the whole we do try to perform justly.

I'd say Everscape got all the points I made into one post pretty well.

The mistakes are usually in retrospect, like I said.  You can only make do with what you know at the time and what you manage to envision for the future.  For example, I think we should have stuck it out in Vietnam.  Instead, we let the communist regime gain another foothold.

It is interesting how the dynamics work in a democracy.  Obviously a lot of winning instills a sense of pride in the population, but the people usually don't comprehend the countless other factors that must be counted, including a vision of the future.

I think Ghouma just doesnt like the US and I sure hope he gets his facts from liable sources not everything you search for is correct half of it is made up, but thats history the facts get mixed with the lies, and twisted out of truth, but it's human nature so it cant be stopped we believe what we want to believe. Even history itself isnt safe from human nature. You have to search to find the true truth and it is not always obvious. 

Some Governments, for instance, dont like anything bad being taught that they did so they have it cut out of their history books for school or they distort it to make themselves look better. We all have our secrets, and most try to hide them; not accepting that they too have done wrong, but instead blaming another. However, their are the few who accept what they have done, and try to atone for it by doing good.  We have made mistakes as a society not just one nation so quit pin pointing one nation. Yes we in the US made mistakes but we must go forward, and learn from our mistakes.  Hopefully we do so we dont make those same mistakes in the future. "Only time will tell what the future holds."

I have no clue if i quoted anyone that had their saying quoted always did hate that so srry if you see one that should be quoted.

I think we can do it. They have no rites in the whatever it was pact thingy. They don't even have a uniform.

Terrorists don't count as PEOPLE.

Extraordinary rendition - Media reports, human rights group statements and governmental investigations (including an investigation by the European Union) conclude that the U.S. government has handed suspects over to foreign intelligence services for more intensive interrogation, often including torture by proxy. There has been a lack of denial in official circles of this practice. A US official is reported to have said "If you don't violate someone's human rights some of the time, you probably aren't doing your job."^64] The US Government denies that torture is being conducted in the detention camps at Guantanamo Bay.^[65] It is alleged that terror suspects are arbitrarily or illegally arrested, then secretly transferred to other countries without trial and without respect of legal rights, there to be interrogated and often tortured. Maher Arar (2002) is an example of this practice.

Sources: Wikipedia

Are you *beep*ing kidding me Sigheart, "baerly breaks the geneva convention"? In Syria they BOIL people alive in American secrets prissons. I dont just dislike America, I dislike all capitalist countries, and some others.

@Sighert, Waterboarding is a terrifying experience that involves placing plastic over a persons face then pouring water over the mouth.This results in in what is know as a gag reflex.

The result ? The body thinking it is going to die releses massive amouts of adreniline, This results in a terrifyingfeeling that over-weelmes the victim in a manner that is so saver that most hardened person would crack in a manner of secounds.

The average for terrorists subjected to this treatment is 30secs.

The average for a CIA officer during traning ? 15secs.

Makes you think.

Sources: "The Mail On Sunday."

BTW. @Sighert could you please supply a server domain that is not American? Thanks ;-)

99% of the things mentioned here are things that many Americans complain about their own government. Weird sentence...but you get what I mean. Despite that, it's not as bad as people try to portray it. Media always makes things seem much worse than they are.

As Sigheart mentioned, this whole torture thing is nowhere near as bad as what's used by like half the world (and yes...I do consider making someone feel like they're drowning while inflicting no actual physical harm "less bad" than causing a prisoner permanent physical damage).

Still, I disagree with this whole torture thing. I can insult America as much as I want b/c I'm American. However, you guys don't have that right. What does the torture of some tell you about America? It doesn't say anything about the people since few of them agree with torture. (Ok fine! That is not necessarily a fact! Just most people I know disagree! And the exclamation points are at the person who was gonna ask for my damn sources!) It says something about ONLY the president and a few other top officials who have a say in this matter. Guess what! Many, many, many Americans agree that Bush sucks! The only reason he's in office is b/c of the mass # of *beep*s that say retarded things like "He has a nice family," as their reason for voting on them. (Note: Anyone who votes for Bush based on his stance on issues and stuff is not included under that *beep* title...I mean literally what I said.)

Sorry about the whole rant...but seriously. No matter how much you and I criticize America, it IS an awesome country and I'm proud to be an American! yay! =D

While American Servers will still be biased against America -_-

"You don't need the right to insult anyone..."

You are used to a country with laws that protect you :).  In other places, you can be killed for this!

My tough stance against terrorism is because we are working with people who are literally behaving worse than animals.  It is alarming to think of the selfish, monstrous mindset required to take advantage of your own people's ignorance; the suicide bomber has been brainwashed to believe that there is a heavenly reward waiting in return for their slaughter of helpless civilians.

Dealing with such a programmed view has to take beyond-ordinary means because this isn't the typical war.  This is not an enemy that can be reasoned with.

What do you recommend instead of torture?  Do you think that just leaving them be will work?  That's what got us into this mess in the first place.

I agree with you when you say America has suffered by the 9/11 attacks but America has been less then cautise when deploying its millitary, You got one sniff of Osama in Afganistan and what do you do ? You go guns blazing into the place and litteraly rip it apart, I have seen newsclips of patiants from the US bombings and let me tell you, They are not Terrorists.

Let me ask you this, Do you find a 4 year old girl so treatining to your people that you must rip out her guts (Yes it showed a picture) but don't think she died stright away, oh no she lived, all night she lived the nurses at the hospital told how they looked after her all night befor she died of blood loss at six o'clock in the morning.

Of course no one wants that.

Unfortunately, however, we are dealing with cowards who would rather hide behind their own people than come out honestly.  Sadly, like all war this is a dirty war...and unfortunately, when it comes down to an "us or them" scenario, our hand is forced.  Pulling out of the area would likely result in another terrorist attack at home again, which would put our own civilians in danger.

The difference between the two sides is that we aren't explicitly targeting their general population, and that we are doing what we can to minimalize the collateral damage as an effect of combat.  It certainly is greatly to our advantage to have the people on our side, after all...because we will need their support to come back home.

Also, you are forgetting that the terrorists in Iraq especially have killed far more of their own people than we have at this point!  The average person may want to live, but the terrorists appear to hold no value in life beyond a tool for chaos!


My father had an amusing suggestion for fighting fire with fire...coat our bullets with pig blood, that way they all "go to hell".  lol :P

everscape im finding your comments a bit disturbing, you condone torture because according to you terrorists are "worse than animals" (when you yourself said they had been brainnwashed by religious propaganda)which would make the torturers - and directly the governments which allow it -  just as bad, if not worse than the terrorists, if i wasnt sure that your replies are all bluster id advise you to see a specialist, ypu seem to be overly keen on sick minded methods of interrogation/ways of dealing with foreign diplomacy.

Yes, Atreides is voicing where I am going with this...it is a difficult decision, but unfortunately one that I believe should not swing in the terrorist's favor when there are more people at stake.  Especially considering that they cannot be rationalized with; are there other suggestions?

I don't see how the government is worse, when they are actively trying to save people versus the terrorists who are slaughtering innocents.

I will reiterate:  put yourself in a position where you are trying to actively stop terrorism.  This isn't about tolerance.

It's no more sadistic than shooting them in the first place, I think...except it has religious connotations for them.

If you could torture one man and could save 3 people from being kidnapped and executed, would you do it?

What if it were 30 people from a bombing?

What if it were 3000 people from a suicie attack like 9/11?

What if it were 300,000 people from a nuclear detonation?

Would you torture 3 men?  30 men? 3000 men? 300,000 men?

It's easy to say torture is wrong when you're safe.  Where do you draw the lines?

no not connotations, just straight racism

No, my friend...it's war and that would be a tactical pro, so there is a difference :).  The real problem with that sort of fighting would be how the rest of the Islamic world would probably cry out against it, so in the end it probably wouldn't help.  It's more a matter of weighing advantages and disadvantages.

Oh, I'm 24 years old.  Woohoo.

@Kassius: Yeah and the Islams are totally innocent of that right? I mean it's not like they've ever burned bibles(they have) tried to kill the pope(they did) or even burned churches(I think you get the picture).


I think I should step in again and own you guys again.

The potrayal of any country's government is biased against or for it depending upon the current state of the media. American media in particular has a tendency to blow things out of proportion when it comes to ethics and decision making. Torture occurs all over the world, this is a fact we must accept. However, if&nb*beep*erica chooses to insert itself into world policing, it must also be willing to go above and beyond in its handling of the situation. As in any argument, the person seeking to change the status quo must prove without a doubt that they are correct. If the U.S. resorts to such measures, we compromise not only the main objective of our mission (to make a positive change), but we also compromise the validity of our ethics (choices to agree to Geneva Convention and UN pacts) and our worthyness to do so.

everscape your a good example that general knowlage or knowing people has nothing to do with education in your country.

sigheart if you actually take some real interest in your point of view you would have found out that its muslim EXTREMISTS that are the ones causing havoc, if you look at the quran (cannae mind how to spell it) you will see it forbades violence of this sort every religion has extremists that use their religion as an excuse to meet their own selfish means when in reality they arnt part of the religion at all. that is why i believe that painting the whole religion as bad is a load of bull.

America needs to stop interveening in the Middle east like europe is starting to do. It would make the world a better place and america much safer.

Ridicules how America gives almost unlimited support to Israel when there basically at war with all the Arab and most of the Muslim world and then get pissed when they get attacked.

Just leave the dman region and they will solve there problems themselfs. Everything will balnace it's self out if the X factor (america) stops intervenning.

Watch this video. This is a great man who crush all the warhawk fools and the people who believe that interveening in middle east poltics is right.

Great man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249JaIaubVw

oh well, just fallow the link then.