Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / Understanding Gender
|07:12:52 Sep 1st 22 - Lady Jasmina:|
After talking about crypto for so long, and having noticed I still have almost no understanding of crypto, I just watched an interview on tv, and one person was saying he is bisexual, and then another woman came in and said she's pansexual.
And then they were asked to explain
Bisexual is being attracked to both genders, but pansexual means you're attracted to the person not the gender. So I thought well that is the same thing. As there are two genders and bisexuality includes these two genders.
But then I google this and it says
Typically, people who identify as pansexual can feel an attraction to anyone, including individuals who do not identify as a specific gender. For example, people with a pansexual orientation may feel an attraction to someone who is agender. They might equally find a female, male, or gender-fluid person attractive.
What the hell? How can you not identify as a specific gender?
What does agender mean? And what is gender fluid?
And the I made another mistake and did some more googling
There are many different gender identities, including male, female, transgender, gender neutral, non-binary, agender, pangender, genderqueer, two-spirit, third gender, and all, none or a combination of these.
Holy crap all these are genders? Are they actually serious?
I mostly see this in American media, I have not see anything like this in Europe or anywhere else. Is this an American thing?
And the whole what are your pronounces thing is ridiculous. Does anyone feel offended if I refuse to call people them/they instead of him/her?
What is the world becoming...
|12:06:00 Sep 1st 22 - Mr. Cyrones Mommy:|
My pronoun is "the thing" and if you dare call me a male or female again I will be extremely offended and I will post about it on twitter! I will be okay if you refer to me as "it" as well.
|12:35:25 Sep 1st 22 - GEO (Ms. Jennaside):|
I identify as a toaster
|13:15:38 Sep 1st 22 - Matthew (Chief Barnyyyy):|
God loves all genders, even toasters, perhaps.
|13:51:52 Sep 1st 22 - Matthew (Mr. Xeta):|
ITS ALL GOOD.
|16:43:57 Sep 1st 22 - HorusPanic (Mr. Bill Gates):|
There is a cultural experiment going on in the US. I can't speak to how its being carried out in other countries. Its confusing and I'm sure someone somewhere will have something contradictory to say about my thoughts on this subject, but nevertheless, I find the phenomenon interesting and worth discussing and analyzing.
First I would encourage you to consider coming into the discussion with an open mind so you can understand the motives behind each force in this experiment. Don't throw out your personal opinions, but I would recommending compartmentalizing them while reading before applying your personal life philosophy and reacting. Its not always possible, good luck with that. We all have decades of experience with life that occasionally gets confronted with ideals that just seem so foreign and incongruent.
Consider an individuals sexuality broken up into different dimensions. Depending on which school of thought you subscribe to, there are anywhere from 1 to 5 dimensions. Maybe others would suggest more. I think of it this way
1) Biological sex - these are the chromosomes... are you XX or XY. In the majority of instances, these line up directly with what set of reproductive organs you get. Variations, due to biology, where the chromosomes and some biological function are misaligned is called intersex. People with chromosomal issues also fall in to this category. Depending on data source, this is anywhere from 0.2 - 2.0% of the population.
2) Gender - How we, as a species, perceive men and women, or masculine and feminine traits, or mixes thereof. The majority of people align their appearance, self perception, and projection of what they want others to perceive them as with their biological sex. Gender does not have to align with biological sex nor preferred partner's bio-sex or gender. That being said, we've just created loads of possible mixed-and-matched sexes, genders, and preferences. Gender is a social construct, but one, that I would personally argue, was forged through centuries of hetero-reproduction.
2a) Gender identity - How we feel about ourselves. Not necessarily as others perceive us. This is how the term transgender comes about. When an individual's gender identity is misaligned with their biological sex. The antithesis of transgender is cisgender.
3) Sexual orientation - who you are attracted to, all the features. Do you prefer bio-sexed men that present as men and identify as men? When bio-sex, identity, gender all line up as masculine on one side and feminine on the other, that's called a hetero-relationship. This is the most common form of relations.
- Genderizing roles has held women back from male dominated spaces, and has created a space for men to seek destructive behaviors instead of dealing with their emotions (because it is perceived as a feminine trait)
- Gender fluidity suggests that it should be normalized for people to be able to move between genders and gender identity. Furthermore, like autism, its on a spectrum. There are shades of gender identities between full straight and full trans.
- Language, the mixing and matching of relation types and indenties creates confusing semantics. Additionally, the English language doesn't genderize quite as much as the romance languages, but it still relies heavily on the use of he and she.
- Historical treatment of minority groups. The majority of relationships are, like i said, the alignment of bio and gender, meeting alignment of bio and gender of the opposite configuration. As a society we typical shun those that didn't fit that mold, sometimes violently.
Which brings us back to what's happening in the US. Our culture has become hyper focused on this topic and we're exploring just letting everyone do whatever they want - after all the freedom to do shit is what we claim to be all about. Others warn that sexual deviations are dangerous and damaging to society. Meanwhile at the same time, the younger generations are significantly more inclined to experience a non-hetero, non-cis lifestyle. As an engineer, I'd love to do a root cause on that. Its a curious question... why? Is it purely cultural? Is it the food and water supply? Is it related to population density? How about pollution? What about the internet?
In my personal experience I have encountered gays, trans, people in drag, those that wish to be referred to as them/they, parents who are treating their kids as any gender until they can self identify... it all feels like a big experiment to me. I don't think it has to be adversarial, and I don't get upset by it. If I misgender someone, they don't get mad because they have to understand that its new territory for us as a society. I don't think we're done yet either with whatever transformation is going on. I couldn't tell you if the pendulum was done swinging and/or was heading back.
|17:09:52 Sep 1st 22 - Matthew (Mr. Xeta):|
|21:43:24 Sep 3rd 22 - Dark Spawn (Lord Dark Spawn):|
Gender issue is 100% USA thing.
|00:49:27 Sep 4th 22 - Matthew (Chief Barnyyyy):|
I heard its a problem in the UK too but less of an issue or not much of an issue at all
|03:48:38 Sep 4th 22 - Lady Jasmina:|
There is even a new documentary of a guy asking lots of people to give him a definition of a woman. And its so confusing to me how people are afraid to say. What happened to so called freedom of speech in the States?
"People with capacity of pregnancy. Would that be women?"
And he's actually accused of transphobic...
I find this to be quite disturbing.
I have nothing against any of this. But lets say Caitlyn Jenner, who changed his sex, and is now a trans woman, I have no issues saying its a her and if she wants to be called a woman, sure. But if someone asks me what is Caitlyn biologically, I will say a man.
Or I saw another video of some podcast, and they were talking about that Youtube star thats supposedly transgender or something. And guest asked "What is he or she?" and the host got so uncomfortable and rather not say. I think it was about the guy Jefree or something, that dresses up as a woman but is clearly a man. But its not ok to say its a man or a woman because you're not sure, and if you say you might be transphobic? What the hell..
You say I should look at it with an open mind. You actually think its normal to have the guy in parliament be accused of being a transphobic just because women are the ones that can get pregnant? Or that you need to be careful if you need to say he, she, it, toaster, dragon or what ever people decide they want to be?
|14:55:22 Sep 4th 22 - Matthew (Mr. Xeta):|
If youre born a woman youre a woman if youre born a man youre a man and you should never change your given name (Your Mother loves you more than anyone else alive) and if you change that shit and defile God's Temple you go straight to Hell
|21:05:24 Sep 16th 22 - Bran (Mr. Bran):|
I think I can understand the theory behind this, as Horus sets out in his post. But the part I cant understand is why Im expected to respect another persons 'gender identity'?
if they can identify their self in any way they want, why cant I also identify that person the way I want?. I identify them as deluded and - in the case of biological males who go into womens changing rooms/public bathrooms - are a physical danger to women and girls
dont we all have a duty to oppose that?
|21:06:59 Sep 16th 22 - Matthew (Chief Barnyyyy):|
BRAN IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU BACK MY FRIEND
|21:13:24 Sep 16th 22 - Bran (Mr. Bran):|
I am not back, Id have to be a necrophiliac to play this game. Ive never seen a deader game in my life
|22:11:59 Sep 16th 22 - HorusPanic (Darth Paniz):|
> But the part I cant understand is why Im expected to respect another persons 'gender identity'?
I dont know - I'm personally taking a controversial position that this is a mental disorder where there is no treatment. Therefor, in most cases recognizing the desired gender as to avoid conflict. It really hasn't had any affect on my daily life. I've had one encounter with a they/them that presented as female and my instincts tell me was born female. I've also never been corrected, so who know how deep these feeling really are. My wife is a teacher and her observation is that trans, specifically, has replaced other outcast cliques like goths and trenchcoaters. Claiming trans as a means to find a group of kindred spirits just looking for similarly interested friends.
> dont we all have a duty to oppose that?
I dont think so. I pity them mostly. I don't know how to help them and I don't even know that they are depressed or distraught.
|22:15:18 Sep 16th 22 - Matthew (Chief Barnyyyy):|
You still love this shit and you know it
|09:30:37 Sep 17th 22 - Bran (Mr. Bran):|
I meant oppose it for the sake of the women and girls who are forced to share toilets and changing rooms with biological males. But Id also add to that the children who are being given hormone therapy, I think we have a duty to protect them too.
I dont think its a mental illness, I think its closer to a cult. I think you can convince a young person pretty much any crazy thing you want to, and its a tragedy when they end up mutilating their genitals because of it, and then 40% of them commit suicide
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