Forums / Questions and Answers / Poll into KDs practices

Poll into KDs practices
03:29:56 Nov 23rd 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):

I would be interested what VU players consensus is regarding some issues that I consider borderline feeding. So please answer with :


A) This is a strategy that all KDs shall embrace or 
B) This is feeding and KDs should not tolerate it 

to the following 2 scenarios.

Scenario 1. One player sells a resource higher than natives can buy. Another player from the same KD, buys it even he/she doesn't need it and then later may sell it to the natives.
Overall, one player of the KD becomes richer with the other player's of the same KD help.

Scenario 2. One player builds mainly farms and lumber and arranges with other player that after enough resources have accumulated, to artificially increase prices of those resources (with risk associated). Then the player lists food and wood at extremely high prices. Members of the same KDs or perhaps some members of other KDs buy those. Overall, again one player becomes richer on the shoulders of other players from same KD.


03:39:29 Nov 23rd 20 - Mr. Bigfield:

Scenario one is literally how civilizations and empires arose in history.


Scenario two is literally how monopolies and economic empires arose in history.

I personally would like like to see stone and wood incorporated into troop cost.

I would also like to see the native price for all goods set at about .25 and also allow native traders to sell all goods at 5 gold.


03:42:19 Nov 23rd 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad The Cruel):

Please answer A) or B)


03:55:11 Nov 23rd 20 - Exalted Berserker Salamon:

Zeta already stated this is market abuse and should not be done. If PDC or whoever continue to do so, they are just diminishing the integrity of the game of how Zeta wants the game played.


04:03:16 Nov 23rd 20 - Waifu Blah Blah The Brutal:

Ofc B, or why waste your time playing?

They are both dictionary definitions of market feeding. Player/s feeding a kd member so that they can train an army that no one can match... If you consider these "borderline", what on earth would someone have to do before you're convinced that they are feeding? Auspice the map with ct and 500k naz?


04:09:03 Nov 23rd 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):

Not sure what happens there in Mantrax, but here in Fantasia, players are getting used to these techniques, and they not only do not complain anymore, but also contribute. Therefore, I thought they may be borderline.


04:19:26 Nov 23rd 20 - Waifu Blah Blah The Brutal:

So what would non-borderline feeding be?


04:27:05 Nov 23rd 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):

I wanted to see how VU players see these issues. Been coming and going from playing VU quite regularly, so I wasn't sure if these practices are normal now.


By borderline feeding, I mean that some players consider these feeding while others take them as accepted strategy. Non-borderline feeding would be obvious feeding or accepted strategy.



04:29:57 Nov 23rd 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):

So, I take it is obvious feeding, nowhere near accepted strategy, if VU admin does not support it, and most KD leaders do not tolerate it.


04:30:48 Nov 23rd 20 - Waifu Blah Blah The Brutal:

 


23:16:01 Nov 23rd 20 - Captain Nakuyki:

Glad, quit being such a child.


Like, holy shit dude.

I don't care if you're trying to bust someone.

Quit going about it like a whiny bitch.

This game is too small to be having new/returning players come in and seeing "veterans" acting like this is fuckng Twitter's court of public opinions.


23:54:51 Nov 23rd 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad The Cruel):

Bling, please don't spam Questions forum. If you don't understand the reason of this Poll, just keep quiet.




00:02:23 Nov 24th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad The Cruel):

you are welcome to answer the questions, though - you are part of VU, too 


07:34:02 Nov 24th 20 - Sir Aloysius XCIV:

Scenario 1 is not fine


Scenario 2 is fine for me. Itís just a monopoly. 

Remove native-ing or fixed the native price at .01 gold per resource ignoring average prices then it will kill first scenario. 


07:53:34 Nov 24th 20 - Waifu Blah Blah The Brutal:

You might want to check the definition of monopoly. It would be a monopoly if that one player owned all the farms and all the lumber mills, and could sell food and tree at whatever price they like (because they are the only supply).

Scenario 2 is price fixing (which is illegal in many countries) in order to arrange transfer gold from many players to one, and at at a premium price. The effect is the same as scenario 1.


08:31:23 Nov 24th 20 - Mr. Seaweed Capn Salaajar:

Me got BANNED for Scanerio 1 immediately, and ZeTa refused to negotiate to reduce me ban period wit' some piracy bribes. 


So thos' who thinks ye can decide wit' A or B, there's no such option exists fer Scanerio 1. That be said, if ye do it, get an oldys honeymoon pack for next 3 months t' pass your beutifel time wit' sweat hearted honeys.

Us pirates will take a "pass" on scanerio 2, seems way too complicated fer us.


18:04:22 Nov 24th 20 - Binh (Mr. Forgotten Dead):

If both players profit from the transaction then its not feeding. If one player sacrifice one self to benefit another then it is feeding.


Example 1: Player A NEED trees to build a 90k. Player B sold trees at 4 per tree. Player A profit because it is the cheapest tree sold which he desperately need asap. Player B profit because his excess trees is now turned into gold which everyone need. Both player profit. Not considered feeding even though tree price is absurd.

Example 2: Player A doesnt need tree. Player B sold trees at above average price at 2 per tree when average tree price is at 1. Player A buy up tree market until player B trees is bought. Player B profit while player A doesnt. This is considered feeding.

Example 3: Player A doesnt need tree. Player A saw that average market price is at 1. Player A plan to buy up all trees and sell to native at 1.375 each making huge profits. Player B trees got bought at 2 per tree each as a result. There was no communication between player A and B. Both players profit. This is not feeding.

Example 4: Player A communicated with player B saying he need to sell his stone preferably at a better price than current average. Player B agree to buy the stone at .9 above average price of .8 in the market currently. Player B buy all stone until player A stone is bought. Player B then cast stone to gold making more than 10% profit. Both player profits. This is not considered feeding.

In the end, its the intention behind the action that determine whether it is feeding or not. If you have to sacrifice one or more person to benefit others then it is feeding.


19:17:51 Nov 24th 20 - Penguin (Mr. Penguin):

Oy binh, stop commenting and spamming. And start playing. 


23:46:45 Nov 24th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):

@ Binh - thank you for your contribution


@Bling - I asked you kindly to keep spam out of here

So let's summarize:

Scenario 1: Everyone playing VU, including the 2 of VU's most famous KD leaders plus the VU Admin deems a 'feeding activity' when one player from one KD buys expensive resources from another player of the same KD, if it not an advantage for the buyer.

Scenario 2: There is the feeding intention, as someone farms and lumbers all era and plans for other KD members to buy wood and food from him at certain times at enormous prices. Those involved in this feeding activity, could claim it wasn't feeding because they all profited from it. We all know though, that the feeding activity would have happened anyway even if it resulted or could result in the other members loosing money. So according to the general consensus of those who answered this question, that's feeding again.

I didn't, personally want to accuse anyone of cheating. I just wanted to see what VU players think about this activities and let VU community accuse the cheater.

I had witnessed myself how PDC of Bersekers (in Fantasia) was feed via Scenario 1. In the last day of the era, while all other players were nativing wood at 1.3 he placed a sell order of 20 mil at 2.5. I posted in the Gladiators forum something like: guys if you want to sell your wood, do it now fast. Someone will buy PDCs wood soon. Boys from Gladiators can remember this, is they read it. I only had a small amount of wood left (as I natived it regularly at 1.3). Placed what I had at 2.3. Soon after, a Bersekers player cleaned the market.

I am sure this type of activity happened more frequently. And the 2.5 price was a small price to get for the cheater. He was used to getting 3.99 or 4.49 for his wood.

The other eras before this, he was accused of other cheating practices. That means that we may be seeing the top of the iceberg only and there could be other ways he is pumping his economy, not known to us, yet. He always uses an abusive tone against those who understand and blame him for his wrongdoing.

Surprisingly though, his KD is gaining popularity, in terms of attracting numbers including some veterans and decent players. With his followers embracing his cheating techniques, the integrity of this game would be at risk in other worlds soon.

Therefore my questions to those who contributed to this discussion so far.

1. How did you discourage this cheating behavior in the past?
2. Is it something we, players can deal with, or it is a matter for VU Admin to solve?



 


01:55:35 Nov 25th 20 - Lord Jellybean (Mr. Crixus Prime):

Feeding when subtle is fine, when does that tip over the edge.. 


Multis for the sole purpose of feeding certainly..

I feel if a KD is going to feed aggressivly then it is mainly at first an issue for us to resolve.. will end up with that KD becoming a target, so to 2, I think we resolve it ourselves..

Unless it so extreme none can challenge them era after era.. then look more closely.

I've seen all KDs feed in one way or another, including Glads, but most the time you would not even think it feeding.. it's just playing the market & helping out a friend now and again by quickly clearing / prefering their price to a slightly lower one maybe...


02:24:59 Nov 25th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):

Crixus, this was the reason, I firstly asked VU players their opinion if the strange activities that I witnessed are (in their eyes) classified as 'feedings'.


The example you gave me, is far away from being classified as a 'feeding'. You needed food and paid a few cents more to get it from a KD mate. 

Message from Mr. Crixus Prime

Poll into KDs practices




You (11/24/2020 3:02:09 PM)
when where Glads fed; can you give me an example?
Mr. Crixus Prime (11/24/2020 3:13:13 PM)GOODBAD
I've bought your food when it was a slightly higher price than someone else, so me lol.. but a small amount what does it even matter, were allies

Technically a feed, but impact is nothing so what does it matter.. infreqeunt and casual .. vs colluded, market controlled & regular


03:30:03 Nov 25th 20 - Mr. Kool:

i dont get it.. its not cheating when someone puts up 20 mill tree and someone buys it... do u think we are stupid enough to spend 40 mill or so just to feed a a kd mate.. most of zerkers are vets and are trying to play to the best of thier abilities.. if there is tree up or whatnot by pdc or whoever at a rip off price and i need it i will buy simply because i need it not because i want to feed him.. (btw im not dumb enough to buy at ridiculous prices) its called supply and demand.. no matter what price you put something up at, someone will be desperate enough to buy it.. it will look like feeding no matter what.. but that does not mean it is happening as you suggest.. 


 look at the price of slaves that is at a ridiculous price everyone needs slaves.. a player that rips through a small kd say like pdc did to sds.. do u expect him to not sell them just so it doesnt look like feeding? if i call out in my kd chat i need slaves as there are none on the market and a player like pdc has over 500k sitting there doing nothing if he puts some of them up is that classed as feeding? 


03:40:15 Nov 25th 20 - Jesus Left Toe (Lord Jesus Left Toe):

Ship, I've been feeding Mages by not selling my stone at 1gp each... 


Then again, Glads have been feeding me by selling it at 0.58 each.


03:51:08 Nov 25th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):

Good we have some Bersekers here too.

First of all, Kool, why don't your answer the questions as per Scenario 1 and Scenario 2. So we can all see your opinion.

Regarding of what you say, nobody (well aside from Crixus's comment) here suggested that this would be feeding assuming you need what you buy and nobody else from the same KD artificially increases price prior to that. 




04:02:20 Nov 25th 20 - Mr. Kool:

as blah blah said obviously its b.. but what i cant stand is every era we are accused of this and that. there is no need to cheat in this game now there are hardly any players left.. 


04:07:40 Nov 25th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):

So if your answer is B) to the first scenario, do you think I lie when I say that one of you purchased 20 mil of wood at 2.5 from PDC just a day before era ended. And before that, he purchased all wood on the market that was lower in price.


Or do you think that the player who purchased 20mil wood had any need for the wood in the last day of the era?


04:14:47 Nov 25th 20 - Mr. Kool:

 noone from our kd bought that tree.. did you know the era was going to end the day before it happened? the arma was already stopped, the only reason we got the quick end was because our guy cast again and the votes ended it.. we were all preparing to wipe you guys off the map..  otherwise the era would have continued and you would not be having this arguement now..


04:19:39 Nov 25th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):

Kool, I placed my wood at a lower price (2.3) and after Elementz purchased my wood, I checked the tree market. PDC's 20 mil was gone.


How can you explain that?


04:21:04 Nov 25th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):

Proof


15:40:39
Exponentz of Berzerkerz bought 1175000 tree for 2878750 gold from you on the market.


04:22:33 Nov 25th 20 - Jesus Left Toe (Lord Audaciter):

Maybe PDC sold more wood...


04:24:46 Nov 25th 20 - Haldimir (Mr. Haldimir XV):

Exponenz is a halfling, he is buying tree to keep on building and catch up on the scores, but then I casted Arma, then all voted yes. instant end.


04:32:18 Nov 25th 20 - Mr. Kool:

 You know whoever bought the tree could simply be buying to boost thier end of era scores.. exponents bought the tree thats right but it was YOUR tree.. that does not make proof..


04:33:13 Nov 25th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):

Haldimir, it's good you try support your KD mates.


But there is no excuse, here.

Purchased was done before the initial Arma was cancelled. We were expecting to have a 15 ticks war. Why would someone try to build something in the last 25-30 ticks of the era?



04:36:46 Nov 25th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):

So Kool, why would an Experienced Player buy tree at 2.3-2.5 before the era end? Do you think the tree you buy at this price boosts you more than cash in hand or armies?


And this regards to ' but it was YOUR tree.. that does not make proof..   '. Are you suggesting I make it up about the 20 mil tree that PDC placed on the market at 2.5?


04:39:55 Nov 25th 20 - Haldimir (Mr. Haldimir XV):

"Purchased was done before the initial Arma was cancelled. We were expecting to have a 15 ticks war. Why would someone try to build something in the last 25-30 ticks of the era?"



because they know I'm gonna cast Arma, thats why he is building up when I cast it, but it went instant.

The answer to your question is simple, he is a halfling hes build time is fast, then adding the slaves, it can build faster. thats why he is buying tree to build as much as he could.


04:42:19 Nov 25th 20 - Jesus Left Toe (Lord Jesus Left Toe):

The real outrage here is that no one from my own kingdom is feeding me, I have to rely on other kingdoms. :'(


04:43:44 Nov 25th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):

Haldimir,


Purchased was not done after the C2E's  Arma was cancelled. Everyone expected era to end, with the Arma that C2E casted.

So nobody at the time was thinking that you will need to recast Arma.


04:45:39 Nov 25th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):

@JLT


A strategy you can use. Watch when PDC sells. Then place your stuff a few cents under. Someone from your KD will buy yours first.


05:04:02 Nov 25th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):

Ok as we moved a bit from our original topic I'll copy/pasted this.




Scenario 1: Everyone playing VU, including the 2 of VU's most famous KD leaders plus the VU Admin deems a 'feeding activity' when one player from one KD buys expensive resources from another player of the same KD, if it not an advantage for the buyer.

Scenario 2: There is the feeding intention, as someone farms and lumbers all era and plans for other KD members to buy wood and food from him at certain times at enormous prices. Those involved in this feeding activity, could claim it wasn't feeding because they all profited from it. We all know though, that the feeding activity would have happened anyway even if it resulted or could result in the other members loosing money. So according to the general consensus of those who answered this question, that's feeding again.

I didn't, personally want to accuse anyone of cheating. I just wanted to see what VU players think about this activities and let VU community accuse the cheater.

I had witnessed myself how PDC of Bersekers (in Fantasia) was feed via Scenario 1. In the last day of the era, while all other players were nativing wood at 1.3 he placed a sell order of 20 mil at 2.5. I posted in the Gladiators forum something like: guys if you want to sell your wood, do it now fast. Someone will buy PDCs wood soon. Boys from Gladiators can remember this, is they read it. I only had a small amount of wood left (as I natived it regularly at 1.3). Placed what I had at 2.3. Soon after, a Bersekers player cleaned the market.

I am sure this type of activity happened more frequently. And the 2.5 price was a small price to get for the cheater. He was used to getting 3.99 or 4.49 for his wood.

The other eras before this, he was accused of other cheating practices. That means that we may be seeing the top of the iceberg only and there could be other ways he is pumping his economy, not known to us, yet. He always uses an abusive tone against those who understand and blame him for his wrongdoing.

Surprisingly though, his KD is gaining popularity, in terms of attracting numbers including some veterans and decent players. With his followers embracing his cheating techniques, the integrity of this game would be at risk in other worlds soon.

Therefore my questions to those who contributed to this discussion so far.

1. How did you discourage this cheating behavior in the past?
2. Is it something we, players can deal with, or it is a matter for VU Admin to solve?


05:28:36 Nov 25th 20 - Death God Please Dont Cry:

an insecure idiot is here to rant without thinking.


i have a couple questions for you.
1.) did you think who ever cleared the market to native got forced or blocked on my 20m wood at 2.5? they are forced to buy my wood else they cant native at 1.3.. 
20m wood is nothing at era end for people who have 100m-300m ununsed tree. i have almost 100m wood. and i havent built anything since early era as i had too much buildings and took 6k/building to build 1. plus a lot from plunders


2.) would 20m x2.5 (50m) gold matter at era end? especially form someone earning 6m gold/tick + 300k food + stone + tree?

3.) i was about to get everything u got in ce core. do you think i would care about 20m wood?

4.) whoever bought the wood u asked. (according to you exponentz). didnt you think he is a halfling building( according to haldimir)? and he also is a mage so he need that tree for MTs?

5.) you are assuming a lot of thing. and the era before. you think i was fed by my kd mates at 4-5 gold /tree. why not blame holy who was the one buying them not my own kd? lolz. a stupid idiot who doesnt have facts,. all you have are hearsay. i posted most of the people buying that tree at crazy prices was a guy from holy. 

like i said. it takes -1000 int to get down to your lever of thinking. an idiot who knows nothing but whine.


05:33:26 Nov 25th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):

PDC, I told you earlier, I won't talk to you if you can't behave as mature adult. This forum is not for cheaters, therefore not for you. 


VU players already decided that you are a cheater. So please keep out of this forum.


05:37:30 Nov 25th 20 - Death God Please Dont Cry:

you're the one whos not a mature adult. if this was real life. i would have sued u for slander and would have drained every penny you got. you would have whined so much in real life you are feeding me.


a hypocrite cry baby who knows nothing about life, business, supply and demand, strategy, possible scenarios. what do you do for a living? i bet you are a trash in real life as you  are in game



05:40:31 Nov 25th 20 - Gladiatorul (General Glad):

I let you have a last laugh as you had your time, if that makes you feel better.


Then please let us discuss about how can we handle cheaters  like you, to keep the integrity of this game.


05:44:26 Nov 25th 20 - Jesus Left Toe (Lord Jesus Left Toe):

Glad, I think you'll find the only one acting like a child here is you. 


Whilst the consensus most certainly is that feeding is to be frowned upon, selling resources on the market is not a crime, neither is buying them so you can native the rest. As far as i'm aware, selling resources on the Markets to prevent others nativing is a long accepted tactic, and one i've used myself often, as it's a pretty good way to make some good money late era from people who need to native.

Either way, complaining so vocally on the forums does both yourself and your kingdom a disservice. I'd recommend building a bridge, and if buying wood for it is an issue, there is plenty of stone on the market. ;)


05:52:39 Nov 25th 20 - Penguin (Mr. Penguin):

Tree being at 2.5 sometimes you can still native it at ~1.349


05:58:54 Nov 25th 20 - Death God Please Dont Cry:

thats sometime able to native maybe true. but blocks the majority of it. ive used that several times on holy. forcing then to my my tree several times everytime they clear the market.


@glad
you clearly dont know enough of the game. youre so much like a child, a sore loser who cant accept if anyone outplays you. grow up idiot.

life lesson for you
get an accounting degree so you know about supply and demand
get a business degree so you know about strategy
get an internship so you know how the world works.
and learn how to read what you post. what you say contradicts yourself. it clearly shows if you are the one doing it. its okay but if somebody else does its feeding.


06:02:17 Nov 25th 20 - Mr. Hannibal Barca:

I think this was a general question, not directly aimed at berzekers (in that case the cheating was obvious, even if not everyone inside the kd is doing it, by supporting and covering pdc and the others who are doing it is equally wrong). 
In regards to the question, I think Binh summarized it quite well and I agree with that.


06:06:53 Nov 25th 20 - Death God Please Dont Cry:

lol you are the one who was city swapping and feeding with pengiun and giving excuses. that you dont care about it? not aimed at berserkers? cant you read glad mentioning me several times? you blind or something>?


excuses that he attacked you but you never took his magic city, only his mines. and only after i was heading for it. when i went back pengiun was about to take it back until he saw me and suicide his army instead.lol

you guys go aroudn each other 
General Glad (11/17/2020 7:55:54 PM)GOODBAD
I don't understand what the deal between Bogdan & Penguin has to do with our CF. And to be honest, I don't support Bogdan for doing that. I asked him to ask Penguin to B&D those cities.

You have indeed 2 border cities North to my core. He won't break our CF if he heads to those; his direction points South though.


Mr. Hannibal Barca (11/17/2020 12:57:46 AM)GOODBAD
if you feel better, just burn those cities, I don't really care, it's not like they influence hoh, Testing Farming, Countfabulous and magic kunt in that corner


06:47:28 Nov 25th 20 - Mr. Hannibal Barca:

I think you were mentioned after someone moved away the discussion from the original idea. 
Pdc, I've told you already, we had no relation to penguin and only attacked him after he started freezing and casting ownage on us, as you've posted that message, I allowed you to burn them if that 100k land really bothered you,so there was no swapping or feeding here. Regarding resources you could have simply asked penguin and he could have shown you that I took no resources or slaves from him.
Now regarding your feeding we could write a lot even ignoring the market stuff, you guys in Berserkers have gifted each other cities(not at era end when it would have been just for hoh, because I wouldn't have cared about that, but in the middle of the Era, to actually influence the fighting) , using mad help, you've reduced building cost by burning cities with mad and also mad had a halfer a few eras ago which built 4-5 90ks and a warehouse city in the corner of the map which you were plundering when we got to have range over your core. This are all clear feedings.
Regarding market it is a bit subjective, but seeing your approach in fant thread this Era when there was a very obvious feeding towards a berzeker member, you can see your view on this subject also. 


06:54:19 Nov 25th 20 - Death God Please Dont Cry:

A berserker member for lessthan  24 hours? U expect me to kick without proof? Lol.


You guys have been accusing nonstop for everything. U expect me every member you accuse?


You never touched pengiun till i came near him. And didnt touch his magic city. None of your armies got ownaged. Lol.

He literally left his city undefended so u can take it. Its not feeding?

And the era yous aid 1were city swapping. You assume they were feeding me?

Instead i was giving the blockers away. Not mines. Nor resources.having too much cities u think i can grow or build blockers?






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