Forums / The hangaround / POLL Karma or Coincedence

Personaly I belive in Karma. Good things happon to good people, bad things happon to people who deserve it, wether its finding cash, or buggering up your body, you get energy back that you put into the world.

"Standard rules apply, please no flaming. And no one from Crazy." - and that is why.

"Standard rules apply, please no flaming. And no one from Crazy."

NO FLAMING PLEASE. Also, no one from Crazy, as all you seem intent to do is flame/stalk/harass me in my threads

http://visual-utopia.com/forum.asp?f=Miscellaneous%20Discussions&t=Forum%20Rules&page=1

Above is the forum rules.

I will note the ones you are not adheeding to.

§1 Stay on topic- you are not on topic
§2 No personal attacks, racism or name calling.- you are doing personal attacks against me.

• Posts must add content to the discussion.
• Contribute to the topic. Avoid one-liners and spam.
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nods~ we make our own luck with concious choices... true. But what about things beyond our controll? Things that just... happon?

like spelling mistakes?

oh wait, that is in our control. i believe fully in karma and i believe there will always be stuff that you cant explain or put a tag on. why karma happens is unexplained, there has never been a true recipe on how to make it happen, you get basic guidelines and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt. thugs get to live the good life cos of the risks they take, the greater the risk the greater the reward. karma goes full circle though and doesnt have a time bound to it, so those same thugs mostly die even worse than the people dying of heart failures. and who has heard of a criminal with no stress...

subject -karma

posts- my karma hit your dogma= someone being silly

post- if karma worked you wouldnt be posting= you are a dink and if karma worked you would be somewhere else and unable to post.

Both were valid responses.

Felscar- your first post was one of the best I have seen on the topic. Cheers!

God helps those who help themselves, Jesus loves me but he thinks that Tycose is an asshat.

Mr. Mctasty Report 13:33:35 Aug 10th 09

then how do u explain gansta leaders and mafia living a life of bliss but murdering people? and then u get good lil god worshippers that die of cancer and heart failure? the bad  criminals are rewarded with there stolen things and drug money where as the law abiding man struggles with morgage payments and kids school fee's then due to stress has there spuse leave them.......... nah u make ur own luck no controling fate out there....

Very well said! Me, I do not believe in Karma as well. I am hindu, and therefore completely familiar with the word "karma". But as Mctasty said, if there was karma, then whers the karma for all those people out there that kill innocents everyday and yet they are still alive, living a peaceful "gangsta" life.

No karma. but i do agree, there is some force out there controlling our destiny.

True. You can not judge eternal consequences on a limited life span. To uderstand Karma, Divine Intervention, or Destiny, you must believe in a life beyond this one. Indeed at times the lives of the just go through terrible pains and sorrows while the ungodly dwell in wretched and filthy evil all of their days without any apparent consequence.

Several good men have died before seeing the fruits of their efforts. Many evil men die of old age not ever being caught or punished. But rest assured, we all die eventually. We cannot choose who we are when we are born, but we do choose who we are when we die. What are we in the end is what matters, because the greatest consequence upon the other side of the veil of death. The good shall be restored to good, the evil shall be restored to evil. The martyrs, the death on innocence, and the harm done to good by the evil will be answered. The murders of countless innocent children, men, and women, will not go unseen.

God has given us the right to choose our own fate. He allows us to carry out our decisions, all of us, even the bad ones. He cannot stop every rapist, halt every murder, or hold at bay every evil man that gives into lusts and passions beyond natural bounds. He will, however, use the victims' plea for justice as evidence against the wicked's crimes. No greater punishment is there than this, to be forced to live eternity utterly and completely alone with memory of your own evil acts.

Perhaps a mafia leader or gangster may live a life full of bliss and pleasure, but on the other side of death awaits a state of anguish that may never die for the whole remainder of eternity. There his riches will not follow, his minions will spit upon him, his kingdom will be nothing but obscure history. His legacy will fade and everyone will soon forget him. He will never forget the faces of the people he destroyed, he will feel their pain as his own, he will wish that his birth had never happened, and no matter where he goes or what he does, the phantoms of the past will torment him from within. They will horrify him at every waking breath, and he will bring upon himself his own hell.

On the other hand, those that do good and struggle perhaps all their lives will reach the place where their Eternal Father dwells, and He will embrace them with joy. They will know no fear, nor pain, nor sorrow, ever again. They will go on forever in a perfect and progressing state of happiness within the mist of their family, their friends, and all the best people of this world. Their lives in eternities will surpass all comprehension, and the sorrows and pains of this life will be but a fleeting memory, as small as a grain of sand upon the seas of forever.

If something had no reason or purpose, it would not be here. We are here that we might have joy. We all have a chance at a state of happiness without end. The best things in life require effort, and the best thing after life requires faith in something greater than what we can comprehend.

I watched that... reminds me of a sermin my old paster did one time. Faith can be a powerfull thing.

Though this guy I have to say has evil eyes... least to me.

to me they do not look fearfull, they look tired, sunken, and dark. He reminds me of like, a crimelord in a comic book... leaning out from the shadows with a fat cigar.

Ah ha! You ask a good question. I am a bit tired to explain it all, but there are levels of reward, according to what I believe. If you are really interested, I suggest ask a mormon missionary. I was one for two years and spent those years helping people. They would love to answer questions for you.

\But basically, we believe in Three Kingdoms of Glory, one greater than the next. One for the people who did their best, one for those who were in the middle, not really good or bad, and one for those that did not really try at all to do what was right.

Here's more, I am too tired to explain myself for now. This is from lds.org

There are three kingdoms of glory: the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, and the telestial kingdom. The glory we inherit will depend on the depth of our conversion, expressed by our obedience to the Lord's commandments. It will depend on the manner in which we have "received the testimony of Jesus" (D&C 76:51; see also D&C 76:74, 79, 101).

Celestial Kingdom

The celestial kingdom is the highest of the three kingdoms of glory. Those in this kingdom will dwell forever in the presence of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. This should be your goal: to inherit celestial glory and to help others receive that great blessing as well. Such a goal is not achieved in one attempt; it is the result of a lifetime of righteousness and constancy of purpose.

The celestial kingdom is the place prepared for those who have "received the testimony of Jesus" and been "made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood" (D&C 76:51, 69). To inherit this gift, we must receive the ordinances of salvation, keep the commandments, and repent of our sins. For a detailed explanation of those who will inherit celestial glory, see Doctrine and Covenants 76:50–70; 76:92–96.

In January 1836 the Prophet Joseph Smith received a revelation that expanded his understanding of the requirements to inherit celestial glory. The heavens were opened to him, and he saw the celestial kingdom. He marveled when he saw his older brother Alvin there, even though Alvin had died before receiving the ordinance of baptism. (See D&C 137:1–6.) Then the voice of the Lord came to the Prophet Joseph:

"All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; "Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;

"For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts" (D&C 137:7–9).

Commenting on this revelation, the Prophet Joseph said, "I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven" (D&C 137:10).

From another revelation to the Prophet Joseph, we learn that there are three degrees within the celestial kingdom. To be exalted in the highest degree and continue eternally in family relationships, we must enter into "the new and everlasting covenant of marriage" and be true to that covenant. In other words, temple marriage is a requirement for obtaining the highest degree of celestial glory. (See D&C 131:1–4.) All who are worthy to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage will have that opportunity, whether in this life or the next.

Terrestrial Kingdom

Those who inherit terrestrial glory will "receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father. Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun" (D&C 76:77–78). Generally speaking, individuals in the terrestrial kingdom will be honorable people "who were blinded by the craftiness of men" (D&C 76:75). This group will include members of the Church who were "not valiant in the testimony of Jesus" (D&C 76:79). It will also include those who rejected the opportunity to receive the gospel in mortality but who later received it in the postmortal spirit world (see D&C 76:73–74). To learn more about those who will inherit terrestrial glory, see Doctrine and Covenants 76:71–80, 91, 97.

Telestial Kingdom

Telestial glory will be reserved for individuals who "received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus" (D&C 76:82). These individuals will receive their glory after being redeemed from spirit prison, which is sometimes called hell (see D&C 76:84, D&C 76:106). A detailed explanation of those who will inherit telestial glory is found in Doctrine and Covenants 76:81–90, 98–106, 109–112.

Perdition

i'd like to read that topic- im a vinyardist, thats about as far from mormonisem you can get while still being in the sphere of protistantisem.

lol i am an excomminicated mormon but i do like their concept of a pre existance where we actually CHOOSE our parents and how difficult our life will be. this gives some comfort that you volunteered for such pain and misery because deep down you could take it and you chose the harder path...whereas someone else chose an easier one.

as for karma, its defintion as defined today is different from its religious context of old. just like reincarnation.

now i dont want to upset the hindus here but from a historical point of view i consider i view things in the following light(IF you disagree....study and research and get back to me).

The aryan people invaded the hindus valley from the west. Most originally claim they come from persia but latest information was their actual origin is the amudayr river region and khorezem in uzbekistan today. although they themselves followed the sacred Avesta(fascinating book i just read for first time) and followed the teachings of zaruhtrha or zoraster(spp) they installed a system of religious government of Brahmas along with caste. essentially if you had issue with your ruler you couldnt uprise against them but wait until the next life to progress. to complain, fight, war was bad karma and the thing with the true concept of karma is that its stacked against you....ie much easier to fall victim to its bad effects than to receive its blessing.

with this relgion installed the people could be efficiently controlled because then it was beyond their concept to doubt their lot in life. the servant or peasant had to stay that and would have to work long and hard just to be much the same in the next life. if his life was exceptional and did everything according to the scriptures he could progress a notch then. the wheel of life was essentially  a curse where one tried to escape from it and the constant reincarnation to bliss,nirvanna or annihilation(becoming one with the universe).

of course this doesnt match the new age thinking of karma and reincarnation which takes only the positive aspects of it and ignores the negatives.