Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / A big debate, on the chat box!

Mr. Ambrosias Arilyonis Report 1/13/2008 5:22:37 PM

Bayushi Clamps, you just can't accept that you lost the debate. And thus you start throwing random stuff at me. You are obveasly not  learned in the history of Science and the Bible.

I believe you can't except that you have lost.... I'm sorry, but please stop.

Btw, lol. Nice job Clamps. : ) totaly pwnt.

*Logic Pwnt!*

"You hilariously just offered up evidence that the world is in fact billions of years old and not 5000!!!! PWND, NUBSAUCE!"

Where did I say that the world could be billions of years old?

something is wrong with you guys. This couldn't be dropped THREE DAYS AGO! Now you're on here fighting about it. Ambrosias, you can't prove christianity to nonbelievers. Bayushi and the rest of you, you can't debunk christianity. I've heard everything you have said thousands of times before. It takes just as much faith to believe in the principles opposing God as it does to believe he does exist. So, neither of you are gaining ground, and may God bless both of you with this insight.

Isa 53:1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
Isa 53:2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
Isa 53:3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.
Isa 53:6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
Isa 53:8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken.
Isa 53:9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it was the Lord's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied ; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

This was predicted hundreds of years before it actually happened. This particul*beep*ction of the Old Testament also contains some of the most interesting finds in the Bible Code.

He is even mentioned by name, Yeshua
Yeshua in Bible Code

BIBLE CODES REVEAL CHRIST TODAY

But deep down it is a faith thing, no other book has been even close in accuracy and science still finds itself catching up in places. The Archaeological examples given above are good examples.

The Lord God said that man could only be in his presence at the Tabernacle but a sacrifice and therefore blood must be given to him to blot out the sin that man has. God finds sin repulsive and the only way we can be with God is for the price to be paid for our sins. Think of things that repulse you and that is the way God feels about sin. But yet He loved his creation so much that He provided a path for the debt of sin to be paid for us.......

Many things can said but deep down it is a faith thing, he wants you to believe through faith, not force. This is a big difference between Islam and Christianity......

Proof is always going to be the big "what if". If God came down and spoke to us from on high directly then many would believe but yet it would not be true Faith as they had to have proof....

The Bible is the only book with the Prophetic accuracy that has shown itself many times, prophecy is not just chance, many try but are wrong. Things in the future can not be predicted with any accuracy except for one thing, the Bible....

PROOF THE BIBLE IS TRUE

this is a testomony

To the best of my memory, before I came to the saving grace of Jesus Christ, I did not believe the Bible was true.  I doubted whether there was a God and believed that we were born, lived so many years, and then died.  I owned a successful business and thought that I had succeeded by my own wits.
   One evening, my wife and I heard some documentation that these were the last days before Jesus Christ would actually return.  Not really wanting to hear it, I almost walked out.  Something kept me there, and I listened.  I was not convinced.  I still had doubts whether or not there was a God.  I doubted whether there really was a Satan, heaven, hell, or a judgment.  Just to be sure, however, I decided to do a little research.  My idea was to find out if the Bible was really true.  Indeed, if I could find one contradiction, one error, or anything in the Bible that was not true, then that would be all that was needed to disregard it.  (I wasn't necessarily interested in whether we were in the latter days or not, but just trying to find out if the Bible was really true.)  I believed this would take a very short time.
   As I have learned, the Bible has about 10,000 prophecies.  Nearly one-third of the Bible is directly or indirectly related to prophecy.  This endeavour led me into far more research than I could have suspected.  One thing needed, was to determine when the Bible was actually written.  Because of this, a study of biblical history and archaeology was necessary.  I found the Old Testament was indeed written before the coming of Jesus, as the Dead Sea Scrolls (containing parts of the book of Isaiah) were proven to have been written before Jesus came.  The book of Isaiah includes forecasts of Jesus.  Thousands of clay tablets have also been found, which confirm many accounts in the Bible.
   I began studying the prophecies in the Bible.  My wife would go to the library for me to obtain documentation from reference books to see if the prophecies really did take place.  One day went by, then two days, and then a week.  Every prophecy that we were able to get information on proved to be accurate.  Two weeks went by.  Then four weeks passed.  My job became of secondary importance.  Every prophecy that we were able to verify checked as being true.  I was astonished, but far from convinced.  I still had doubts as to whether there was a God, a heaven, or a hell—yet I had to be sure.  Later, there were people who would show me what appeared to be contradictions in the Bible, yet these were not contradictions at all, but only a lack of research on the part of those that said these things.  I was searching to find if the Bible was true.  My wife spent a lot of time at the library making copies of various reference materials, which I would check out against the Scriptures.  Stubborn, that's me.  Even after four weeks of intensive study, proving prophecy after prophecy was true, I was still skeptical and refused to believe.  I began taking more time off from my business and investing it in study.  One month turned into two, and two months turned into four.  The more I researched, the more determined I became.  It wasn't possible.  The Bible could not be perfect.  Thousands of prophecies, and every one perfect?  No, impossible!  Sixty-six books written by many people over hundreds of years and not one error?  If I would admit that, I would have to admit there was a God, and I was not prepared to do it, even after months of research.
   My studies also included various translations of the Bible, checking prophecies against reference books, archaeological discoveries, just to mention some.  It became an obsession with me.  My foremost desire was to know the truth.  Four months turned into many months.  I’ve never known anyone, before or since, that was willing to take this amount of time just to find out if the Bible was true.  Finally, I had to admit—I was wrong.
   If you would walk across the street 10,000 times and never get hit, then you would walk across the street the next time by faith.  So it was with me.  Finally, after spending almost countless hours of research, I had to admit the Bible is true and is indeed the perfect Word of God.  Anyone willing to take the time I did and do the same research, could only come to the same conclusion, if they are honest with themselves.  I may have been the biggest skeptic in the world, but now I know.  It did not come easy, but by God’s mercy and grace, it did come.
   Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God.  I know that there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we MUST be saved (EXCEPT JESUS).  We need to REPENT of our sins and receive Jesus Christ as our only hope of salvation, by FAITH.  Eph 2:8-10-FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH; AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES; IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD.  NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.  FOR WE ARE HIS WORKMANSHIP CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS UNTO GOOD WORKS, WHICH GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM.  Call on Jesus NOW to be YOUR Lord and Savior.  It is written, EXCEPT YE BE CONVERTED, AND BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, YE SHALL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN-Mt 18:3.  Afterward, we are to be baptized in the name of the FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY GHOST-Mt 28:19.  Baptism is by full immersion in water— BURIED WITH HIM BY BAPTISM-Ro 6:4.  We are to OBEY the Gospel-Heb 5:9.  Jesus loves us.  We are to LOVE GOD and keep His commandments.  For Jn 14:15 says, IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

This message may be called a road sign of warning.  Some may look at a sign that reads—THE BRIDGE IS OUT, and say, “Oh, someone is just trying to scare us into taking another road; let’s go on the same way.”  They go on and plunge to their death.  The sign was not meant to scare people, but to warn them of impending danger.  The sign was put there, because someone cared and didn’t want others to die.  

God wants you to know, WHEN YOU SEE THESE THINGS COME TO PASS (the prophecies from the Bible in this message), KNOW YE THAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NIGH AT HAND-Lk 21:31.

• Will Russia and some Arab nations invade Israel?  Yes

• Will the U.S.A. become involved in this war?  Yes.

• Did you know the Bible tells us about what is happening?

3-WHAT IS GOING ON?

People have said the end was near many times in the past—true.  But did you know the Bible shows us no prophecy of the latter days meant anything until Israel was reborn into a nation?  Did you know God’s Word indicates to us a generation would not pass from Israel’s rebirth, till all be fulfilled (which includes the Rapture, the Tribulation, and Jesus Christ’s return)?  A Jewish generation can be figured from the age of 20.  We are in that time period now.  We are not setting any dates, but are giving you a warning sign to watch and be ready.

Many people have been preaching about the latter days of the end times in churches, on radio, TV, and through books.  Some include Billy Graham, Hal Lindsey, Rex Humbard, Ray Brubaker, John Hagee, David Breese, Zola Levitt, Jack Van Impe, and Peter Lalonde, just to mention a few.  Even people who do not know the Bible can sense something is about to happen.  To them that understand the Bible, no explanation is needed.  To them that are prideful, self-centered, that love this world, that despise God’s correction, that are contentious and seeking the praise of men rather than of God, no explanation is possible-ref Dan 12:4,10; Mt 24:37, 39.

A dying declaration is considered proof in a court of law.  Why is this?  When you are dying, it is the one time you don’t lie.  Christ’s words as He was dying on the cross for your sins are evidence.  Jesus said, FATHER FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO-Lk 23:34.  Just before being hung on the cross, He said He was the Son of God-ref Mt 27:43; Mk 14:62.

It has been said that it is virtually impossible for anyone to make 11 straight predictions, 2000 years into the future.  There is only one chance in 8 x 10 to the 63^rd power, or 80 with 63 zeros after it that such a thing could be done.  If such a set of predictions existed, it would have to be the Word of God. 

Consider, could you write eleven straight predictions that would take place 2000 years in the future, the year 4000 A.D.?  Include the rebirth of a specific nation and exactly how it would be reborn.  Include specific nations that would exist and certain nations that would be allied together, and the exact size of a nation’s army.  Include what the people would be like in the year 4000.  Include what the church would be like in those days.  Include the names of actual cities that would exist and name certain crops and fruit trees that would exist.  Do eleven straight prophecies, and be exactly correct on every single one.  The Bible not only does this eleven times, but hundreds of times with absolute, perfect accuracy.  If this is so, even the most skeptical person would have to agree that there is indeed a God, and the Bible has to be the Word of God.  2 Peter 1:20,21 KNOWING THIS FIRST, THAT NO PROPHECY OF THE SCRIPTURE IS OF ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.  FOR THE PROPHECY CAME NOT IN OLD TIME BY THE WILL OF MAN: BUT HOLY MEN OF GOD SPAKE AS THEY WERE MOVED BY THE HOLY GHOST.  O FOOLS, AND SLOW OF HEART TO BELIEVE ALL THAT THE PROPHETS HAVE SPOKEN-Lk 24:25.  However, believing there is a God and acknowledging the Bible is the Word of God does not save a person.  A person needs to repent of their sins and receive Jesus Christ as their only hope of being saved.  This is done by faith. 

Let’s prove the Bible is true and that we are nearing the end of the last generation before Christ returns.

1.      The Jewish people would be scattered worldwide; yet Israel would become a nation again-ref Isa 66:8; Mic 5:3.  Prophecy fulfilled.  This happened exactly as predicted on May 14, 1948.  That’s 1 out of 1.
   Note: Israel was destroyed in approximately 721 B.C. and Judah about 135 years later.  For the last 2500 years, approximately fourteen different peoples have possessed the land of Israel.  Nevertheless, the Bible showed that the day would come when the nation of Israel would be reborn.
   The rebirth of Israel was a key sign, indicating we had entered a time period called the latter days.  It was the beginning of a countdown leading to the Tribulation and culminating with the Battle of Armageddon and the return of Jesus immediately after.  Along with the fulfillment of this crucial event are over 360 prophecies that would all come together, so we might recognize that the Tribulation is very close at hand.  Twenty nine of them are listed here.
   Yet the Bible foretells that most people would not believe these things, despite the overwhelming evidence of the fulfillment of the signs from God’s Word and the incredible rebirth of Israel happening exactly as predicted.  As people refused to believe the flood was coming in Noah’s time, so people today willingly choose to disregard the signs of the times. 

2.      Israel shall be brought forth in one day, at once-ref Isa 66:8.  Prophecy fulfilled-May 14, 1948.  That’s 2 out of 2.
   Note: On Nov. 29, 1947, the General Assembly of the U.N. approved a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine.  On the morning of May 14, 1948 (the last day of the British mandate), a meeting of the People’s Council took place in Israel to decide on the name of the state and to finalize the declaration.  At exactly 4pm, the proclamation ceremony began at the Tel Aviv museum.  The 979 Hebrew words of the Scroll of Independence were read.  All stood, and the scroll was adopted.  The notorious White Paper, issued by the British in 1930 restricting Jewish immigration, was declared null and void.  Members of the People’s Council signed the proclamation.  David Ben-Gurion rapped his gavel, declaring, “The State of Israel is established.  This meeting is ended.”  Israel was brought forth as a nation in one day, at once.  It happened exactly as predicted.  At midnight, the British soldiers and high commissioner would leave.  President Truman was swift in announcing U.S. recognition of Israel.  The following morning, on May 15, Israel was under armed attack by the Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese, Jordanians, and Iraqis.

3.      The rebirth of Israel would happen after many days.  It would occur a long time in the future after the prophecy was made and at the time the bible calls the latter days-Ezek 38:8.  Prophecy fulfilled-May 14, 1948.  That’s 3 out of 3.
   Note: It is estimated that this prophecy was made around 580 B.C.  Approximately 2500 years later, in 1948, this prophecy was fulfilled.  

4.      Israel would be brought forth (or reborn) “out of the nations.”-Ezek 38:8.  Prophecy fulfilled-May 14, 1948.  That’s 4 out of 4.
   Note: As previously stated, on Nov. 29, 1947, the General Assembly of the “United Nations” approved a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine.  This prophecy was perfectly fulfilled.  Consider, for centuries the land of Israel had been occupied by many nations.  Israel was “brought forth out of the nations”—the children of Israel from many nations were returning to their ancient homeland.

5.      Israel must regain the city of Jerusalem-Joel 2:32; Isa 28:14; Ezek 22:19.  This happened just as predicted in 1967.  That’s 5 out of 5.
   Note: The Bible gives us two methods so we would know we are in the last generation.  One is by Israel’s rebirth.  The other, by a precise line of events that would all come together at one time.  Israel was reborn on May 14^th, 1948.  The Bible indicates that from Israel’s rebirth a generation would not pass till all be fulfilled.  A Jewish generation is figured from the age of 20 to 60 (1968).  We are not setting any date, but it seems clear that we are living in that generation now.

6.      The Christian church at the time of the end would be lukewarm, neither cold nor hot for Jesus.  Prophecy fulfilled.  That’s 6 out of 6. 
   Note: God will spew them out.  Many church leaders and people that call themselves a Christian and are sure they are saved will not be going to heaven.  The Bible tells us—you have acquired wealth, but your true condition is wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked and you don’t know it-Rev 3:14-22.  This is today’s church.  Most churches preach very little Scripture, but lots of worldly stories.  Many sing a great deal, but put very little emphasis on repentance, obeying, serving, and fearing God, the fruits of the Spirit, Bible prophecy, water baptism by immersion, and studying your Bible faithfully every day.  Many are only entertainment centers that teach what their members want to hear.  People will not endure sound doctrine-2 Tim 4:3.  They turn away from the truth-2 Tim 4:4.  Many church members are so lukewarm or dead, they don’t even bring their Bibles with them to the house of God.  Many ministers think this is the best church age ever, yet the Bible clearly shows it is the worst and most deceived.

8.      There would be weapons that could destroy the world-Mk 13:20; Rev 6:8; Rev 9:18; Zech 14:8,12.  This prophecy is true.  That’s 8 out of 8.
   Note: When in our history would anyone have ever thought this possible?  It is estimated that the combined nuclear *beep*nals of the USA and Russia (as of the year 2000) could kill every living thing on earth 6 times over.

9.      There would be an increase in earthquakes-Mt 24:2,3,7; Mk 13:8; Lk 21:11.  This prophecy is correct.  That’s 9 out of 9.
   Note: One might think as the earth settled over a period of time that earthquakes would decrease like ripples in the water.  Yet the Bible indicates the opposite is true. In this last generation, research from the U.S. Geological Survey, National Earthquake Information Center reveals that major earthquakes of a magnitude of 6.0 or higher have remained relatively constant during this century.  However, the total number of earthquakes in recent years appear to be rising.  For example, it was reported that in 1986, the total number of earthquakes was 12,718.  In l990, it was 16,612.  In 1994, it was 19,371.  This will culminate during the Battle of Armageddon, AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS.  At that time, there will be an earthquake that will shake the world.  The cities of the nations will fall.  Every island will flee away.

10.    At the time of the end, there would be famines in various places.  Food shortages would still exist in some places-Mt 24:3,4,7; ref Mk 13:8; Lk 21:11.  This prophecy is accurate.  That’s 10 out of 10.
   Note: In this last generation, many are starving in the world.  Poverty and crop failure, due to severe weather, drought, or insect infestation, are often a factor.  Many people are born, live, and die on the streets, in alleyways, or railroad stations in some countries of the world.  Multitudes live in mud houses with grass or palm branches for a roof or have no place to live at all.  Billions have no electricity.  In some nations, good drinking water is almost nonexistent.  Senseless wars have left millions of people with no place to go.  Refugee camps exist in many places where people live under conditions that are almost indescribable.  They are hungry.
   One such person was asked, as I recall, “What would it take for you to consider yourself rich?”  His reply was, “I would consider myself rich, if I could have a roof over my head that did not leak, and if I could know what it is like to go to bed at night with a full stomach.”
   It has been estimated that 60,000,000 people a year die from starvation around the world.  This prophecy is accurate.

11.    The Gospel must be published in all the world-Mk 13:10.  This prophecy is exact.  That’s 11 out of 11.
   Note: In this last generation, to our knowledge, the Gospel is being published (or is about to be published) in the primary language of every nation of the world or “among all nations.”  Yet when this prophecy was made, the possibility of such a thing would have seemed impossible.  There was no printing press or any means to do such a thing.  In addition to this, the Gospel should be available by short-wave radio to listeners anywhere in the world.  We have just reached the point that seemed impossible—11 perfect predictions—yet with God nothing is impossible.

12.    In the latter days when Israel was once again a nation, there would be a great military power to the extreme north of Israel in the land of Magog (which is modern-day Russia)-Ezek 38:2-4,8,15,16.  Incredible.  That’s 14 out of 14.
   Note: How could the Bible have foretold such a thing?  It told the.locationer of this nation, facts about its military, and even the time period it would come to pass.  As was already said in Lk 24:25-O FOOLS, AND SLOW OF HEART TO BELIEVE ALL THAT THE PROPHETS HAVE SPOKEN.  Certainly, at this point, even the biggest skeptic in the world can see that the Bible is true, there is a God, and we are very near the time of the end.

Here are just a few more prophecies briefly given, out of the 365 that exist, regarding this latter day generation.

13.    In the last days, people would be hoarding gold and silver.  True.  It began in the late 1970’s.

14.    There would be a nation to the far east of Israel, to the end of the earth.  This nation would have an army of 200 million.  This is absolutely astounding.  It is estimated by some that the population of the entire world at the time of Christ was only about 200,000,000.  How then could the Bible have ever told the.locationer of a nation and given such a figure as the size of its army nearly 2000 years ago?  China has boasted that they could field an army of this exact figure.

15.    The currency in Israel at the time of the end would be the shekel.  The currency had been the Israeli pound until June 1980, when it was changed to the shekel.  The Bible is flawless.

16.    There would be an economic alliance of the nations of the Old Roman Empire.  It would have a military capability.  This is a perfect description of the European Economic Community (the EEC), which is in the process right now of adopting the one-currency system for many of their member nations.  It is written, IN THE DAYS OF THESE KINGS (these nations, which is now) SHALL THE GOD OF HEAVEN SET UP A KINGDOM-Dan 2:44.

About 29 prophecies in 16 sets have been given, all perfect and all written centuries ago.  The chance of any person writing 29 perfect prophecies 2000 years into the future is not possible.  The Bible is the Word of God, and we have just proved it.  Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.  Repent and get baptized by full immersion.  Read and obey the Gospel.  God loves you.  He is not willing that any should perish.  The Rapture is close.  Most people are not ready and will not be taken.  However, “YOU” cannot say you did not know.  Know and understand, Mt 16:26-WHAT IS A MAN PROFITED, IF HE SHALL GAIN THE WHOLE WORLD, AND LOSE HIS OWN SOUL? OR WHAT SHALL A MAN GIVE IN EXCHANGE FOR HIS SOUL?

4-WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?  THE RAPTURE AND TRIBULATION

RAPTURE is a term used to describe the removal from the earth of all living people that have been born-again as evidenced by their fruits.  Just prior to the Tribulation coming about, the Rapture will take place.  The number that will be raptured will be far fewer than most people might think.  The Bible unmistakably portrays the raptured saints in heaven before the throne of God, prior to the Antichrist coming forth and the Tribulation beginning.  The Scripture tells us, in the twinkling of an eye, we shall be changed and be with Jesus in the air.  1 Cor 15:51,52-WE SHALL NOT ALL SLEEP, BUT WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED, IN A MOMENT IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND; 1 Thes 4:16,17-AND THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST, THEN WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS.  We may be asleep, immediately we will be with Jesus.  All the unbelievers, the lukewarm Christians, and those that did not obey the Gospel will be left to face the Tribulation.  (For an in-depth study of the Rapture, click here.)

THE TRIBULATION is the worst time in history since man has been on the earth.  Immediately following the Rapture, the man of sin (called the Antichrist) comes forth and assumes control of the EEC.  He can be expected to be very charismatic and brilliant.  He confirms a treaty with Israel and others, which begins the Tribulation.
   It is a 7 year period, but the Lord may have shortened the first 3 1/2 years in some way-ref Mk 13:20; Ro 9:28.  We are not setting a date; however, we are now living in that generation in which this will happen.  Hate, murder, thefts, rape, and every imaginable form of evil will abound.  During this horrible period of God’s wrath, Russia, Iran, and other nations will come against Israel.  The USA becomes involved.  One-fourth of the world’s population will die.  Many of the dead will be from the USA, as well as Russia.  One-third of trees are burned up.  All green grass is burned up.  One-third of the sea will become blood.  One-third of the creatures in the sea will die.  One-third of the ships are destroyed.  One-third of the waters become wormwood (or poisoned, or radioactive).  Massive famines, increased earthquakes, and more diseases will happen as birth pangs of a woman.  Those left alive will have opportunities to receive Jesus through the preaching of 144,000 male, virgin Jews; however, death by decapitation lies ahead for most that put their trust in Jesus, unless they renounce their faith.  There will also be many false Christs and false prophets.  A one-world, false religion that God calls MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH will increase.  This religion has existed for hundreds of years and exists today.  The nations of the world have become intoxicated with her false teachings.  The temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt.

About 3½ years from the end of the Tribulation, the Antichrist (also called the beast) is killed with a wound in the head by a weapon, but his deadly wound will be healed.  He will come back to life.  He then declares himself to be God and moves into the temple in Jerusalem.  A false prophet appears that will do great wonders.  The sacrifices at the temple will be stopped.  The abomination of desolation occurs.  An image of the Antichrist will be set on a wing of the temple.  Those that refuse to worship it will be beheaded.  The elect born-again Jews now flee for their lives to a place where God will hide them and take care of them during the last three and a half years.  Power is given to the Antichrist over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.  All that dwell on the earth shall worship the Antichrist, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb.  During these last three and a half years (called the Great Tribulation), world conditions will continue to worsen.  A one-world system will be set up.  The Antichrist shall make war against the saints and will overcome them.  People will be required to take the mark of the Antichrist or the number of his name (666) in or on their forehead or right hand.  If they refuse, they cannot buy or sell.  Two prophets of God will appear.  One of them is Elijah.  Their ministry lasts 1260 days.  They warn people not to take the mark or worship the image.  There is no forgiveness from God afterward for those that take the mark and worship the image.  They will go to the eternal lake of fire.  These two witnesses have the power to shut up heaven that it rain not during their days on the earth.  They have the power to bring all kinds of plagues on the earth.  Multitudes will be slain for the Word of God.  Locusts will sting men with a sting like a scorpion.  It will be so bad that men will seek death and shall not find it.  There will be terrible sores upon men.  The rivers and fountains will become blood.  Men will be scorched with great heat.  Earthquakes continue to get worse and worse.  Diseases will continue to get worse and worse.  Two hundred million troops will march to Israel from the east and cross the dried up Euphrates River.  One-third more of the earth’s population will be killed.  After the 1260 days, the two prophets of God will be killed.  People will rejoice, but then after three and a half days, they will arise and ascend up to heaven as people watch.  Great fear falls on those that see this.  Men will be so terrified that their hearts will fail, as they consider what is about to happen.  Multitudes will hide in the rocks and say, “FALL ON US AND HIDE US FROM...HIM (Jesus)…FOR THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME; AND WHO SHALL BE ABLE TO STAND?”-Rev 6:16,17.

5-IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION

Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the Battle of Armageddon explodes.  It lasts one day.  The kings and armies of the earth are gathered to make war against Jesus.  Jesus Christ returns as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords with all His saints. If He had not returned exactly when He did, there should be no life left on earth.  The Antichrist and false prophet are cast alive into the lake of fire.  Satan is chained for one thousand years, so he can deceive the nations no longer till the thousand years be fulfilled.  Every force of nature is likely to be unleashed at once, including killer tornadoes, hurricanes, tidal waves, lightning encircling the earth, and the biggest earthquake in mankind’s history.  The cities and the mountains of the world will crumble.  The Bible tells that every island fled away.  The mountains were not found.  There is great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of 70 to l00 pounds.  The earth will move out of its place.  At the end of that one day, there are so few people left alive that a child could write the number.
   This may all sound like a fairy tale, but remember—from Israel’s rebirth to the Tribulation, there are about 365 prophecies.  In addition, there are over 10,000 prophecies in the Bible and every one up to this time has come true without a single exception.  THE FOOL HAS SAID IN HIS HEART THERE IS NO GOD-Ps 14:1.

6-ARE YOU READY TO MEET JESUS?

If you had a sudden heart attack or the Rapture came in the next five minutes, are you sure you are ready to meet God?  You may say, I believe I’m a good person.  The Bible says all of your righteous deeds ARE AS FILTHY RAGS.  You may be religious and go to church, but if you died right now—you would perish to hell.  Why?  Because you have not been born-again.  You may say, “Well my church never preaches like this.”  Will you trust your religion or what the Bible says?  If you choose not to accept God’s way to enter heaven, then you are choosing eternal separation from God.  God loves you.

7-YOU MAY ASK, WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO?  FOUR THINGS.

1.  You must admit that you are a sinner.  The Bible tells us, ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD.  THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH.
   2.  Be willing to change, to forsake all sin, to humble yourself and live for Jesus.  Repent.  Be willing to ask God for His help to make that        change.  The Bible tells us, EXCEPT YE REPENT, YE SHALL ALL LIKEWISE PERISH.  WHOSOEVER THEREFORE WILL BE A FRIEND OF THE WORLD IS THE ENEMY OF GOD.  Jesus tells us, HE THAT IS NOT WITH ME IS AGAINST ME.
   3.  Believe in your heart Jesus Christ is God’s only begotten Son, God Who came to this earth in human form.  Believe He died for your sins.  It is written, THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN, WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED.  If you are caught robbing a bank, you have to go to jail.  Jesus never sinned.  When He died on the cross, He did not die for the things He did.  He died to pay your jail sentence.
   4.  Ask for forgiveness.  Ask for God’s mercy.  By faith receive Jesus Christ as your only hope of salvation.  Afterwards, be willing to get baptized by full immersion in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
   Nicodemus was considered a very religious man in the Bible; however, in Jn 3:3, Jesus tells him it is not enough.  You MUST BE BORN AGAIN.  You must ask for God’s forgiveness.  You must confess Him publicly.  Whenever Jesus called someone he did it publicly.  He said in Mt 10:32-WHOSOEVER THEREFORE SHALL CONFESS ME BEFORE MEN, HIM WILL I CONFESS ALSO BEFORE MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.  As it is also written, BE READY ALWAYS TO GIVE AN ANSWER TO EVERY MAN THAT ASKETH YOU A REASON OF THE HOPE THAT IS IN YOU WITH MEEKNESS AND FEAR-1 Pe 3:15.

I am going to ask you to make that decision for Jesus right now.  You need to repent and ask Jesus to be your Lord and Savior.  Please kneel right where you are.  Can you feel God calling you right now?  Is your heart pounding?  You may have been baptized or confirmed, but something inside you is saying, “Be sure.”  Perhaps you have strayed from God and need to rededicate your life to Jesus now.  Would you rather go to be with God or the lake of fire?  You have that choice right now.  God wants you to receive the gift of eternal life.  Are you sure there is not a sin, there is nothing that stands between you and God?  But you may know there is.  The Bible tells us THERE IS A WAY WHICH SEEMETH RIGHT UNTO A MAN, BUT THE END THEREOF ARE THE WAYS OF DEATH.  Jesus wants you to KNOW HIM, to have a personal relationship with Him.  It’s not a matter of whether you think you know Jesus, but does Jesus know you? 

Right now, kneel and pray this prayer out loud, and mean it with all your heart.

8-IF YOU JUST SAID THAT PRAYER AND MEANT IT

We recommend you now read your Bible every day faithfully—5 chapters a day.  Begin with the Gospel of John, and read it through three times.  Next go to Matthew and read the New Testament through three times.  Then begin reading the entire Bible in order, beginning with Genesis.  As God opens up His Word to you, obey it.  Be a doer of the Word and not a hearer only, deceiving yourself-ref Ja 1:22.  As you are faithful, God will open your understanding of His Word more and more.
   Find a good Bible-teaching church that teaches God’s Word, not just stories about worldly things.  Attend often and get baptized.  Tell others that Jesus is your only hope of salvation.  If you’ve just said that prayer and committed your life to Jesus, please e-mail us and let us know.  We would like to pray for you and send you some free literature. 

9-FINAL NOTE ON SALVATION

Many people are positive that they are saved.  They base this on emotions.  They may make certain comments, such as, “I am a good person.  I do what is right.  I’m not as bad as that person.  I had an experience with God.  I feel that I am saved.  I can feel God is with me.  I know the Holy Spirit is inside of me.  I am a preacher, an elder, a prophet, or a preacher’s wife.  I have prayed, and God answered my prayer.  I believe in God.  God did this or that for me.  I sing in the choir.  I go to church.  I praise and worship God.  I give my money to the church.  I was baptized.”  While all of this sounds very nice, it is not based upon biblical knowledge.  Many that are now in hell have said such things.  The Pharisees in the New Testament also could have said many of these things, but Jesus showed them clearly they were not saved.
   If you have received Jesus Christ, God’s only begotten Son, as your Lord and Savior, it is because God in His mercy has opened your understanding.  As it is written, FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH; AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES: IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD: NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.  FOR WE ARE HIS WORKMANSHIP, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS UNTO GOOD WORKS, WHICH GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM-Eph 2:8-10.
   “After” we believe on Jesus Christ, “after” we have repented of our sins, we are commanded to be baptized by full immersion in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.  It is written, HE THAT BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED; BUT HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT SHALL BE DAMNED-Mk 16:16.  Note, believing on Jesus comes “before” water baptism.  Baptism prior to repenting and believing on Jesus has no meaning.  You cannot be baptized into One on Whom you do not believe.  It is written, FOR AS MANY OF YOU AS HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST HAVE PUT ON CHRIST-Gal 3:27.  Water baptism is by full immersion.  As it is written, BURIED WITH HIM (with Jesus) IN BAPTISM (or buried in the water)-Col 2:12, ref Ro 6:4.  Jesus commanded, GO YE THEREFORE, AND TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY GHOST: TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: AND, LO, I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS, EVEN UNTO THE END OF THE WORLD.&nb*beep*EN-Mt 28:19,20.
   Surrender means “you give up.”  You stop putting your will before God’s will.  You allow Jesus (God’s Word) to reign over you.  You submit to Jesus and let Him become the Lord of your life.
   If you have not humbled yourself, and totally surrendered to Jesus, and become as a little child (ref Mt 18:3), and continued steadfast in the faith, I would suggest that NOW IS THE ACCEPTED TIME; BEHOLD, NOW IS THE DAY OF SALVATION-2 Cor 6:2.  Please submit to God, say the prayer, and mean it with all of your heart.  God loves YOU and cares.
   It is written, EYE HATH NOT SEEN, NOR EAR HEARD, NEITHER HAVE ENTERED INTO THE HEART OF MAN, THE THINGS WHICH GOD HATH PREPARED FOR THEM THAT LOVE HIM-1 Cor 2:9.

I CALL HEAVEN AND EARTH TO RECORD THIS DAY AGAINST YOU, THAT I HAVE SET BEFORE YOU LIFE AND
DEATH, BLESSING AND CURSING: THEREFORE CHOOSE LIFE, THAT…THOU…MAY LIVE-Deut 30:19.
I HAVE SET BEFORE THEE THIS DAY LIFE AND GOOD, AND DEATH AND EVIL-Deut 30:15. 

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I don't think anyone will take the time to read all of that, lol

me neither. You can't prove any miracle except that Jesus indeed wasn't in the grave after his crucifiction. Look at this, Christianity was started in an extremely hostile environment. So much so, the Romans guarded his body to prevent another cult from popping up and starting yet another rebellion. The body still came up missing. The local religious and legal leaders very well could have responded to the disciples claims of a resurrection by showing the body of jesus was indeed still very dead. The whole thing would have ended. story over. No, they couldn't prove that because it was indeed gone, and the early church converted thousands of devout jews (renowned for their loyalty and faith) to follow a new faith against the goodwill of their families, neighbors and the religious officials they had followed their entire life.

Point 1

Remember Back to the Future and the Delorian (sp?) Imagine if you were Micheal J Fox and some one asked you to go to five (only 5) different time zones/geographical areas and meet one person in each time zone/area and ask them, "please write a book about God, I'll be back in 5 years to collect it."

Five years later you went and picked up the five books. Logically speaking what are the chances those five books would agree? What are the chances those five books would build upon one another? What are the chances you could make any semblance out of them...to live by or the like? Snowballs in your know where, right?

Different people! Different cultures! Difference Time frames! Different Premises! Different World view! etc etc...

Logically speaking you would have five unconnected books with five different perspectives, right?

Well, the Bible (torah, prophets, gospels, epistles, revelation) are not 5 books by five authors, but66 books by 40 authors...who did not know one another, did not live in the same town, did not live in the same time line...authors were of every occupation and financial status........yet......the Bible is a one-themed, continuing story. Doesn't prove it God's Word yet though...just something that might warrant another look.

Point 2

Here's an undisputable fact (I believe at least after examining) Jesus of Nazareth claimed to be God, his followers claimed He claimed to be God...and...non Christian journalist (such as Josephus) claimed He claimed he was God. Doesn't appear here to be different agendas going on. He said it, His followers said He said it, third parties said He said it and even his enemies said He said it (Sanhedrin, Pharisies, etc)

SO...with all that said...we have only two LOGICAL outcomes. No religious double-talk here) Either you BELIEVE or you REJECT. Really no other options right? If you believe, then to you HE IS LORD. If you REJECT there are really only two options for you.

1) JC knew he wasn't telling the truth, therefore he would be A LIAR

2) JC didn't know he wasn't telling the truth, therefore he would be A LUNATIC.

That's the only three logical outcomes...LIAR, LUNATIC of LORD. There is no room for him being a good guy and all, no room for him being a prophet as every other religion on the face of the earth calls him. Because prophets don't lie and they are not usually in psych wards.

Point 3

Most direct followers were killed for believing in JC. If they had stole his body and the romans excused, at least one of them would have squilled just before their execution right? I would have...but NO-All these ordinary folks were willing to die for what they saw...WOW!

well, there's different timeline theories. If we stuck with what the ancient Catholic and Southern Baptist priests told us the bible meant, we would even have biology. The bible is very independant of the church, actually, and it doesn't say the bible was 5k years ago. It says it happened. there is actually a very large gap between eden and noah and abraham, in which the entire world was populated, that could take a long time. Some christian researchers suggest the world could be as old 65-100k years old...

On point one, the authors had enough in common to write something that hangs together. They were all heavily influenced by arabic philosophy as it was coming in from the east. All religions in the western world (greek/roman) went through a shift when these guys came, because they were the first to offer life after death and the philosophies were appealing to the people of those times and places. Christianity is one of the many religions which came about more than anything from arab immigration to Greece and Rome. It is one of the few, though, to last.

That's the only three logical outcomes...LIAR, LUNATIC of LORD. There is no room for him being a good guy and all, no room for him being a prophet as every other religion on the face of the earth calls him. Because prophets don't lie and they are not usually in psych wards.

Well I certainly can't think he's the son of a god, and no one can tell if he was nuts or just lying. I don't even know where you're getting this "prophets don't lie" business from. Prophets are just as much mumbo jumbo as god. You know who else was a prophet? Nostradamus, and he is total crap despite being the most well-respected prophet (other than I guess Jesus now that you bring up that he is called one). Prophets are all either lying or nuts, and if you look at the modern new-age movement and psychic hotlines etc you will find that usually they are just lying.

Some christian researchers suggest the world could be as old 65-100k years old...

Fine, but that's not enough to help support the flood myth. I am happy to see the wheels starting to turn though as they accept certain things are not true.

all facing outwards in a semicircle, so there was no sneaking...circumstances were a lot different.

The Egyptians did a lot better than 10 guys standing around in the dark man. We still only have ideas of how these grave robbers did it but we know they did anyway. Sometimes they dug, sometimes they got the guards in on it, sometimes they were the guards. Who knows what went on.

But what do you have to say to all the predictions to the future that were writen way before anything ever happend?

Some are so vague they can't be wrong when interpreted by someone who wants to believe and there are so many (hundreds or thousands per prophet) that some have to be correct. Lastly interpretation of the same prophesy tends to change as time goes on. For example, Willem become*beep*ler becomes Bin Laden etc. In answer to your question, I have to say that they are crap.

10 men couldn't move that stone, and they couldn't dig through stone. That's farfetched.

No bible prophecies are false yet...

np

The book of Daniel and Revelations are perfect examples of how the Bible is the word of God. Example of a code in the bible that proves it before it is said to happen. Russia and Iran. The bible code predicts Russia will aid Iran when it is attacked by America/Israel..Russia has already came to the aid with Iran by stating they are not planning to build nuclear weapons.

how can you create a code from a translation of a translation?

By saying "code" i mean prophicy, a predictment.

You forgot something very important, who came first the egg or the chicken theory, when the bible was written? or compiled by the scribes from the stories passed by generations?

Actually the bible final compilation was not done until the Israelis were already a nation, under one God.

So that bring the theory as who adapted what very much to the other way around, the Israeli people spend most of their ancient days roaming the middle east from city to city adapting the believes and views of the establish civilizations already booming in their paths.

So actually who adapted what is very much not a question but mostly a fact that can be proved even in the bible accounts, Israeli did not become a nation and did not had any roots but the ones later on apply in their compilation of their nomad and errant life.

Three already main and well established cultures were involve in the Israelis lives the Egyptian, Canaanites, and Mesopotamia.

Even the bible Chastises Israel for succumbing to Canaanite influences. Prior to the Bible taking its final form. Israel's educated elite lived in forced exile in Babylon and a century later, under a more benevolent Persian rule when the Persians defeated Babylon and freed the Hebrew leaders.

Any attempt by learned Hebrew scribes to construct their own history of the world, from creation down to the time of the writing of any source document, would have to take into account what their neighbors have said about the same times and places, because the stories of the neighbors were well known and widely circulated at the time.

Remember the times prior of the bible compilations were of Polytheistic cultures, while the final Israeli nation was already monotheistic, so they did have to fit their monotheistic views to create a final product while the stories were taken from polytheistic cultures.

We tend to forget that the old testament is the history of the Israeli people, a group of people that from the beginning were a "nation without land" and the culture of many civilizations.

So again as who took what from who is seems very easy to explain.

umm, I didn't read all that, but ok. ummm. marg6043. the enslavement of Israel brought about a sudden change of Egyptian beliefs. Which is actually very odd considering the Helenistic effects of Greek and Roman conquest.

Or the people of the sea? They found those too...

yes they found some remains of the city Troy i think...

no, there was a powerful empire in the Medi. Sea kept invading everyone. historians didn't know who it was, until they unearthed HUGE palaces on islands.

Wow, gone for 5 hours and 100 new posts pop up!

1)  Biblical Flood

If you think about it, this is perfectly understandable why seperated cultures have the same world-wide flood.  The earliest civilizations depended on being near sources of water, ie the Nile, the Tigris and Euphrates, etc.  And rivers are bound to flood... in fact, in some areas the people relied on these floods so the waters replenished the soil.

Chances are there were some really big floods that managed to wipe out nearby houses and scare the residents into retreating to higher ground.  As there was no written history, generations would simply tell of a "great flood" that "covered the world."  And to them, the world was only as large as the valley they lived in.

2) The bible being the most accurate record of ancient times:

This is extremely debateable.  As mentioned, some Greek and Roman writers and historians wrote pretty accurate accounts of history in their time.  But in terms of Jesus, no writings appeared about him until about 70 years after his death.  How could two/three generations later be able to tell the story exactly as it was?  The living witnesses were dead, no one to say "well, that's not really what happened.  I was there."

Then there was no consistant bible until Consantine sat down and compiled one, selecting certain books and removing others.  Many other scriptures have been discovered that weren't included in the bible that expand on the traditional story or tell it differently.

Now consider it's been about 1600 years since Constantine and the bible has been translated many times, even altered based on sect.  Which version of the bible is the "right" version?  The most accurate?

Also, as other people have mentioned, having an accurate account of the era does not necessarily mean the stories are true.  More like historical fiction, maybe based on a true story, but really not an accurate account of what ACTUALLY happened.  More drama, more miracles, more emotion.  I mean, we're still doing this today, except now people have a more coherant understanding of hisory and know when a character was fictional or not.

3)  Prophecies

Prophecies have existed for thousands of years, long before Jesus.  It is very hard to "disprove" a prophecy because they are (intentionally) vague, so when people look for prophecies in old documents or stories their minds try to bend the perception to make connections.  Where do you draw a line between an accurate prophcy or an innaccurate one?  How many misplaced letters do you forgive?  How many names do you mistranslate?  How close do specific numbers have to be to a real event to be accurate?

And even then, if all else fails, you could always say "oh, that prophecy hasn't happened yet" and wait for new events to happen.

4) Archeological evidence

Several "Troys" have been found.  I wouldn't even be surprised if someday they found a very definitive city with Greek weapons in the soil, remains of large walls.  They might even find a golden plate that reads "WELCOME TO TROY."

But none of this would prove that there was a man invincible except in his heel, or that a goddess helped guide an arrow to strike it.  Similarly, even if archeologists unearth definitive artifacts belonging to a popular and persecuted man named Jesus does not proove that he was literally the son of God.