Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / A big debate, on the chat box!

oh, the early catholic church tried to discourage the practicing of pagan holidays by laying christian ones over them. Not a sound practice, but that doesn't mean they became part pagan by doing so. Next argument, please.

How can you make the claim that Persian religions were "sweeping the nation" of Israel, especially under a Roman occupation?! The Jewish people were extremely proud of their unique monotheistic God and extremely faithful to that religion, (hence it's existance and practice even today). You are acting as if Cultis Christi invented Judaism, a religion with written records thousands of years predating other religions' records, and an oral tradition thousands of years before that. Christ was a Jew. Jews worshipped Yahweh, Jehovah, or as we say today, God. That is the only God any jew worshipped. Mortal worship was strictly anathema. The first of the ten ancient commandments to the Israeli people. "I am the Lord your God. You shall worship no other God but me."

The Romans did have a problem with christianity, thus the "decimation" of Christian Roman Legions (ever wonder where we get this word?), but the fact that christianity still grew and thrived in the midst of this is the point I was making. The Jews don't refute the beliefs. They refute the person. It's not what but whom for them. Some of them didn't believe Yeshua (jesus) was the one they were waiting for.

The Romans did have a problem with christianity, thus the "decimation" of Christian Roman Legions (ever wonder where we get this word?

Nope, not lately, because this is basic roman history. They decimated many legions for dishonouring themselves or losing their standards. It meant to kill every tenth man randomly. What are you getting at?

The Jews don't refute the beliefs. They refute the person

Again I have failed to be clear. I don't think the Jews are right about anything religious other than that Jesus was not the messiah. I don't care what they or any other religious person thinks about gods. My point is not "Jesus is not the correct god" or "he isn't the only god"; it is "jesus was one of many gods, all having similar myths about them, so they are obviously nothing more than that." Seriously, the story has a traceable history not unlike Goldylocks, the three little pigs or Santa. They start somewhere, they catch on, then they become a cultural icon. If it started as a story to scare kids, it ends in a monster like vampires (who some people still think are real); if it started wise-man, then it ends in a religion.

Good debating, Bayushi.  I've simmered down in this debate because, to be honest, I've never really studied this stuff all that extensively.

There's just one thing I have a comment about though.

"Granted you won't see this in elementary or high school either, ESPECIALLY not in the USA, but to take a real education in history is to have learned this in year one."

Well, not really, but it's usually not a required part of education for graduation.  In my school there was "The Bible as Literature," "World Mythology," "World Religions," and history is scattered here and there kindergarten through senior year, though it's usually 1450+ that's studied the most.

If you're worried about Christian Fundamentalists teaching their personal opinion and spewing out Christian propoganda, no, I didn't get any of that.  Not to say no one has, though... but despite what people may think there is a cle*beep*peration of church and state that's only growing wider with time.

Just so we are clear:

Christmas.25th december. The day Jesus was born.

It is believed that Jesus was actually born in the late winter/spring, so more February or March, maybe even April.  December 25th just happens to be the day that we celebrate it.

Age of the Earth according to the biblical research I just did:

Hypothesis:
1. God created earth in 7 days, and on the 7th day he 'created' Adam.

2. The following text is true:
Jesus was the son of Joseph, who was the son of Heli, who was the son of Matthat, who was the son of Levi, who was the son of Melchi, who was the son of Jannai, who was the son of Joseph, who was the son of Mattathias, who was the son of Amos, who was the son of Nahum, who was the son of Esli, who was the son of Naggai, who was the son of Maath, who was the son of Mattathias, who was the son of Semein, who was the son of Josech, who was the son of Joda, who was the son of Joanan, who was the son of Rhesa, who was the son of Zerubbabel, who was the son of Shealtiel, who was the son of Neri, who was the son of Melch, who was the son of Addi, who was the son of Cosam, who was the son of Elmadam, who was the son of Er, who was the son of Jesus, who was the son of Eliezer, who was the son of Jorim, who was the son of Matthat, who was the son of Levi, who was the son of Symeon, who was the son of Judas, who was the son of Joseph, who was the son of Jonam, who was the son of Eliakim, who was the son of Melea, who was the son of Menna, who was the son of Mattatha, who was the son of Nathan, who was the son of David, who was the son of Jesse, who was the son of Obed, who was the son of Boaz, who was the son of Salmon, who was the son of Nahshon, who was the son of Amminadab, who was the son of Arni, who was the son of Hezron, who was the son of Perez, who was the son of Judah, who was the son of Jacob, who was the son of Isaac, who was the son of Abraham, who was the son of Terah, who was the son of Nahor, who was the son of Serug, who was the son of Reu, who was the son of Peleg, who was the son of Eber, who was the son of Shelah, who was the son of Cainan, who was the son of Arphaxad, who was the son of Shem, who was the son of Noah, who was the son of Lamech, who was the son of Methuselah, who was the son of Enoch, who was the son of Jared, who was the son of Mahalaleel, who was the son of Cainan, who was the son of Enos, who was the son of Seth, who was the son of Adam, who was the son of God.

Note: God is Jesus great*75-father.

3. All of them had the son at around 20-40 years of age. Thus an average of 30.

4. Jesus was born in Year Zero.

----------

We thus deduce:
75*30 = 2250 years of genealogy
2250 + 2008 = 4258
so earth is around 4258 years old.


* if all had their sons at 40 years of age:
75*40 = 5008 years old is the earth.

rofl thats the most retarded proof of the age of the earth ive ever seen

Lord of the Dawn? did you change your name? died or summat? you don't ever offer a reasonable point...just saying.

The fact that the Bible (that is 'perfect' , god's words etc...) contradicts itself doesn't make it too trustworthy, does it?

and yes I did die...

The thing he just posted was one and in fact he even explained it, Arch.

On a Sidenote, the average quality of the articles on Wikipedia has been proven to far surpass that of for example the Britannica or Brock Haus. This from one of germanies most renowned magazines (Spiegel I think).

Not only where the articles more up to date but also a lot more detailed on virtually all topics that where tested.

Since I´m here anyway I may as well comment on what I have read during the last 2 odd hours.

Again I am apalled by the extremes our local bible lobbyists go to to impose their order of thinking upon us non-believers. The sheer arrogance seeping out from in between nonsensical rambling and crude attempts at discrediting any source except church-approved ones is baffling.

Somebody in here summed the bible up nicely. It´s not so much a recounting of actual events but a frame work for a happy life. With general guidelines for what is acceptable behavior and what is not, wrapped up in enough mysticism to appeal to a large part of the population.

All else I have seen from you "faithfull" is a stoic believe in that everything you are told by your church is the truth. No matter how many times the truth has been revised (the earth is a disc, eh?) to keep the church somewhat credible. Nothing of this has anything to do with faith in a higher being. To me the relation between any man, woman or child with "god" is of a personal nature and has no need for old dusty doctrine.

So please take your longwinded posts about how bad science is somewhere else, anybody with a brain sees your arguement is thin, at best. I dont need you to tell me in what to put my faith and I am fairly certain Jesus would agree wholeheartedly to that sentiment if one tries to apply the general idea behind the bible.

Yeah, OMFG its just so ROFL funny that I don't know what to say

maybe something along the lines that "It's not a proof, but earth's age according to the bible"
If you would actually read what it says.
"Age of the Earth according to the biblical research I just did: ...."
*according to*

Jesus Christ!

arose

Read the "Did Jesus Exist" thread for an explanation of Christmas, also there was no year zero.

Jesus was actually born in about the year 5 BC.

When Dionysus the Little remade the calendar in the 5th Century AD he made a mathematical error that was never fixed.

One can date the Earth with the Bible, but the question is...during those first 7 days, how long was a day? The Earth and organization of the universe was just being created. We assume that each day was 24 hour because that is what we know...What if the first day was 10 million years?

Oh ffs....even the vast majority of Christians don't believe that story. Most think Jesus' miracles are true but quit with the hocus pocus right there because they know it is silly. Now we have another teacher in schools reviving this?

We assume that each day was 24 hour because that is what we know...What if the first day was 10 million years?

 I know, since we're just individuals with no authority deciding what the bible REALLY meant I submit a few of my own improvements. Mary wasn't a virgin like it says. She just never had relations with Joseph so no one knew she was a prostitute, bringing into our world the king of the crack-babies. Of course he didn't come back from the dead like it SAYS, nope he just lives in our hearts, or maybe our pants, I dunno. Ok what else does it say...ah the flood. Ok it wasn't a flood that washed away all sinners it was a rain that washed away some dead leaves and it was the end of the world for, oh I dunno, an ant colony. Ok and let's keep going with our own ideas of what the bible meant to say hmm... ok I got one, when Jesus turned water into wine actually he just showed up at a bad party with some booze and saved the day... maybe there was a pinata...NO....there DEFINITELY was a pinata, they just forgot to add that in because back then no one knew what a pinata was. Okok I'm just warming up...what else to just add in there however I feel like it?..... Have I made myself clear?

Jesus spoke in parables, did he not?  Where the stories may or may not have been true, but that was hardly the point, the idea was what you learned from it?

Is it impossible for the bible to be doing the same?  Not every absolute damn thing is meant to be taken at word-to-word value.

Who needs the Bible Clamps? More than anyone YOU DO!!!

I've read the bible just like a handful of other holy books and they really don't offer anything. They're just ancient sources like Pol. Thuc. Dio. and the like. They have uses but they don't make me happier. I'm perfectly happy and well-adjusted without looking at it again.

Go get him Arvious... somehow he feels he has a point...

Ermm, well yeah for the most part I tend to attract people with a certain sense of humour. I tend to hang around the absurd humour and frankly for all the smiles and good times many people have from it I'll accept a few being offended. I have my friends in mind when I speak, not people for whom it actually takes hard work to not offend.

Thank you! I think we're getting somewhere =p

Nope!

:-)

It was then it wasn't. It got hijacked by apparently a school teacher (though I'm starting to think he was putting me on and was really a teen) who just wanted to flame. I embarassingly got pulled into it. Although yeah the post count is up, the talk has gone NOWHERE...except that I was hoping some people would check out that video and comment but i know people have trouble with videos on here =p