Forums / Miscellaneous Discussions / Religious Extremist terror

*Cephorus walks in with a rack of cooked squirells and flamingos

"He has bad spelling too!"

*Cephorus takes a squirell and starts eating it, he looks at Sakaal.

"Want one?"

He shouldnt be banned for being a fourteen years old *beep*, most people are not that bright at that age.

We have been talking about religios extremists, the most dangerous ones right now, I would probably say, is the religious right in America. Theese people grow in size and get more and more power. As a growing ground for facism in America would you say they are the most dangerous religous group in the world? And could a to strong polarization between theese people and sane people eventually lead to a second American civil war?

Sure, Im very sceptical of the idea of another civil war myself. I however read a book by Chomsky who in the book talked about it as a real possibility. Even if not likly, that someone like that takes it serious could make you worried. The leaders in the religious movement has this far been jackasses who has only been in it for money, if there in the future accually comes real idologists like Hitler or Mussolini  it could be alot of problems.

 I dont think we can trust the free market to do anything, our economical system is a worthless one. It keeps a third of the worlds population unemployed and makes 5% of the worlds population own 95% of the world.

The most recent and relevant example of atheist terror is the acts commited by (extreme?) femminists/anarchists/communists when they burned down churches and stuff. Getting rid of religion was an agenda in it self and also an important step for the ideologys.

"The worst religion in USA is money. Money is supposed to be a tool, but for most American leaders it seems to be their master. They are not using money, the money is using them. That is quite worrying."

It is kind of a broad statement to say "most" are led by money.  In figures, the richest men in the US Government are mainly democratic candidates, who have only in recent years been able to take important power from the republicans.  By definition, a democrat is commonly the pro-welfare, pro-government program, pro-lower middle/poor class while republicans stand for pro-free-trade, limited government, pro-upper-middle/rich class (and thus most likely to benefit themselves.)

"Tha nature should be a player in the market, if we wanted the free market to take care of natural balance as well."

By definition this is no longer the freek market, then.  Though I do agree.

Ghouma, I didn't know feminists had burned churches somewhere... where did that happen and when?

Anarchists sure could have an extreme atheist agenda on top of their anti-political agenda. I often find it amusing when anarchists organize events. Aren't they supposed to oppose all organization?

Communists have been discussed already, but atheism is/was not their main point. Yes, atheism still is/was one of their points, as Marx saw religion as an institution upholding injustice. Some of their actions probably fall under the category of this topic.

Bruto, yes, and I would like to see more than 2 parties in the USA.

If the nature somehow was a player in the humans' market (probably through a government organ that would try to represent nature), it could still be otherwise a free market. The only part that was not entirely free, was the pricing of exploiting nature. Where applicable that could be done by the "clean up your own mess" principle.

On the other hand it may not be possible e.g. to put fossile fuels back into the ground and under seas, so in those cases we would have to compromise--at least absorb the carbon dioxide that was released. Or even better, move to renewable energy sources.

Yes, that is expensive, but so is destroying the planet. There are plenty new business opportunities in the renewable energy sources, especially when the price of fossile fuels goes up (be it an "artificial" government intervention). I wouldn't even consider such intervention artificial--it is more artificial humans exploiting nature without paying for it. Sooner or later we will pay the price of our short vision.

Mbeidas, I find it difficult to identify parties who would fight a new civil war in USA. One (or more) of the sides would have to be wealth-oriented (civil or criminal) barons or moguls, and other sides could be more ideologically oriented. There would also have to be an economic collapse related to some long chain of events to destabilize the whole country and weakening the central government. More likely there would be more than two sides, who would compete to fill the power vacuum. Personally I do not believe in this scenario anywhere in the foreseeable future.

That is more or less the whole debate atm, isn't it?    distribution of wealth/resources/knowhow ...

ofcourse, those holding the cash and power are a bit reluctant to to give it away ... i geuss that's human nature.     with money, comes power, it's always been like this.

maybe a revolution could speed up the proces, but it is a dangerous road to take ... if it goes wrong, you can never tell what the outcome will be (possibly a lot worse, as a powerblock will be overtaken by anotherone)

future wars may be just cultural wars,  the west vs the east, or other combinations (there are a few other possibilties, you can look for yourself),  the reasons for war, could be 'human rights', 'environmental', etc , but the main reason will still be a struggle for power, for worlddomination (economically first, politically later).

and yes, i have the impression too, that even in our 'we*beep*ndamentalist groups grow more numerous and bigger and stronger  (not just religious things, but evironmental, political aswell) ...     it is unfair, we have to make choices, and it is almost impossible to discover the whole truth (because everything becomes so polarised, misinformation seems to be sold as truth;  these days it seems you have to be 'pro' or 'con', a more reasonable compromised path seems very hard to agree on)

Sakaal, I forgot to write when ti was, it was during the second spanish republic. Acording to the facist filth ten thousand priests and other catholic workers got killed by the republicans during the war. We shouldnt belive that but there is probably something to it. And they were probably right in doing so. Anarcists are not against organisations they are against the state and so are Communists.

There is a split between different rich people, the companys that has few workers and high value equipment like GE or Ford are pro goverment programs, they was in favour of New Deal etc, and they dont mind Trade unions. The owners of theese companys are for abortion and want their daughters to be able to make a career within the company.

Then we have the people who have smaller workshops and similar companys where the workers salary is the highest cost of the company. Theese people dont want any goverment involvment, to a much higher degree then the previous group they dont want any goverment regulations on the enviroment and is after fast cash. Theese people are the strongest supporters of the neo conservative republicans, for example the largest donations to Newt Gingrich was made by a company that had did things similar to pyramid schemes. The only large company that donated money was Philip morris (we all know about the morals of this company).

That second group is the one who has rallied support of the religous right
and they want their women to be in the kitchen, they want to stop abortions and build the society on the bible. In the spanish civil war we had the owners of the large company owners in Barcelona siding with the republicans against the conservative christians. In the german revolution the communists didnt want anything to do with the rich liberals so they sided with the nazis instead.

Its interesting that the workingclass has a need to ally themself with the richest people against the second richest people. For several hundred years ago it was the same, the people often sided with the King against the nobility.

Sakaal, you cant trust the market to do anything. The freemarket is only an ideological weapon agains the poor nations and the workers, no one really applies it to themself.

if everyone was equally rich, the communist system would have worked  (that more or less was the spirit of communism?),    but vast differences, aren't good either.    if everything is equal, then there is no more competition, no more motivation.

but, it can't be right, that for decades, a whole continent is fighting against wars, famine, disease ... not succeeding to get things on track ... while rich continents spoil all that money on trivial stuff.

why are we allowed to develop nuclear stuff, and other nations cannot?  we weigh things with different measures ... so, unfair ... which means, if it doesn't change,  that those who are needy or denied their 'rights', will be easier to agree to violent actions.  (and it would partially be our own fault if we let it come to that) (even Fisk said this).     

the west is in danger, we say ...  are we being invaded by enemy troops?  no, we're not,   we're the ones attacking others all over the world ...  who are the real terrorists?    we started getting bombthreats after the americans brilliant plan to start fighting in the middle east ...   if anything, the muslimreaction is one that could be expected ...  and unfortunately, they turn it into a religious thing...

we show no respect to the world, then why do we expect them to respect us? just believe us? 

No, he sold the cows and pigs to other countries and didn't give enough money back to the farmers for their efforts, so millions of farmers died by starvation.  It was Stalin's attempt to make the state powerful while neglecting the workers.

Communism could work, but few if not any established communist governments naturally tend to fall behind in technology, standards of living, etc.  It was also require a vast amount of human selflessness and sacrafice of luxery items.

I mean, all of us here could sell our computers and give the money to poor kids in Africa or India.

...

Right, didn't think anyone would. :)

As I have written earlier on these forums, any utopia would work, if we people just acted accordingly, but we won't.

People are selfish, stubborn, stupid, reckless, careless, etc. People are not very wise in general. A system that works needs to take this into account. There has to be consequences to your actions. You have to be able to either ruin your own life or make it better, depending on your own actions. The system must expect a large number of people do nothing to better their lives, or even does a lot to make his or her own and the lifes or others worse. Only a system that recognizes that human nature is very imperfect, can work. The so called "true communism" expects almost everyone be like some perfect beings, and of course that cannot work.

So, the relatively new idea (to this thread) is that the Islamic terrorism would not actually be primarily about religion, but more like some modern guerilla war tactics against an otherwise too strong enemy. And they are using religion to have people commit these acts where they usually get killed themselves, much like kamikazes of Japan during WW2. Did I understand you correctly, Mijamoto?

i dont belive ther must be an equel as i said before its natural balance

as i belive the whole thing is that the rich give the poor some money to make the community power and not easy breakable. cuz the poor must work

as i may say also (as beliver in god )   god created this balance on opposites

and its not the fight between good and evil , evil is weakend than it looked like , evil grows when good forget he is good

and when ther is the opposite fight you always see the violence wich easily and by evil work on good , make it teror

"its easy to be bad person , but its very hard to be good person "

so many as i see went the wrong way ,

as also i found that the terorist is moving in a side he thinks its the good , example : you think its good to you to eat hamberger cuz its yammy but you forget that its bad sort of food , junk food

and so , and as we arabs when we ask for a road :

"is the longer way shorter or the shorter way longer"

its means is the longer way have less darty and can easily walk on (its short now)

or the shorter way have darty and cant be easily walk on (its very long way now )

but i recommend that you seprate our people fights into terorists , and freedom

see terorists think when they kill arabs they kill people made the relegion in bad way , but instead islam said to give them 3 days to tell them how the wonder of the islam

and people fights for freedom must not be called terorist in any way cuz its not cool to fight and fight for your country and then called terorist , its even not sence , and so i say hammas and hezb allah must not be called terorist

in other way i say that half of alkida are terorist , and i am really sad that the other half only follow orders and got blammed ,

Here is news (click here) how the terrorists use children as their weapons.

holy crap!
I can actualy understand mbeidas now!
Congrats on the improved english (god's language) jk

no lol

i maybe write it in wrong

when you are a muslim , and say , i dont want to be muslim . you have 3 days before you got the judge in kill , that's mean that islam give un numbered chances , but what if he was born muslim and dont want to be , well it's also the same judge cuz i will explain how to be

to become muslim

you need to pray 5 times  ,  you must not eat in ramdan  ,  you must go to alkiba as a pilgram ( its must when you can cuz not alot of people can ) , pay a little money to poor , and lol this is the main one , to say ther is no god and mohamad is the prophet

to become a beliver

you must belive in god

you must belive in angels

you must belive in the four holy books

you must belive in all the prophets

you must belive in the final and the judgment day

you must belive in the destiny the good and the bad , as god give the good and give the bad days , you must thank god in the good day and also thank god on the bad day and be patiant

and so we belive in destiny , and so destiny put you as a muslim and what a houner you dont want !! lol sorry i talked as beliver in the last part  

as for murders most iraqi , you see us as murder and we see you as murderer and so the word bothered me "the most"  well  what about 6 iraqi people fights 4 american soldiers who would won , the americans cuz they have good wepons and one shot from the tank contains the 4 soldiers can kill one thousend and 6 people ,

iraqi people killed in this war was 600,000 , american people was killed in world trade center plane crush 3000  , now 3000=/=600000 , its even doubeled 200 times

i am no slave i worshop

and its not a myth its a fact you dont want it

but you wrote good things thanx

*A mean looking mongoose walks through the door and puts up a flier, it says:

Septim's exotic eats

Exotic food for free

Squirells

Chipmunks

Platypus

Rattlesnakes

Alligator

Human

and much much more

why do you say 'americans' killed them.
who really killed them?

it was socialism and if he really was a evil dictator the CIA woulnt kill him
couse ever since its existed its been a firnd of dicitators who opress their people and killed many leaders who dint opress their people by doing what they wanted :D

and whatever stalin may do he shure is a better example of democratie then the US has ever seen.

Hes from a small town in geogria and he came from a very poor fammily.
how many presidents did US have who wasnt a millionaire.

this is raciam to call us 3rd world

lol mate give right  proof , we get it by marry an american girl

lol

i think the american people have no parents is serving in the army cuz i saw in the news what parents can do in the country just cuz their son is dead in war

well we muslims go paradise that's why the parents only cry for little time

god said : "dont think who died for gods word is dead , they are living near him , well in paradise" god is always truly say

sorry it requered me to put this

sorry if that was my point

i meant we secrfise easily

[quote]
well we muslims go paradise that's why the parents only cry for little time

god said : "dont think who died for gods word is dead , they are living near him , well in paradise" god is always truly say
[\quote]

the kooran book is bull*beep*, it's a twist of the old and good bible, AKA the old testament.

you muslims sicken me, your leaders never go and do suicide bombings themselfs, they send the poor and weak, which do it so that their families will get some money.
You kill and attack the "infedels" just cuz they are your scapegoats, the situation in your countries are awful because the way you have kings and dictators as leaders.

And you support so much your brethern palestines, but none of your *beep* countries take them, you force them to live in MY country, in the only jewish state, and they suffer here because of the terrorists and extremist among them.

PS
the jews never toke over israel from the arabs, check history, we took it from the british, then when the arabs attacked us we got some more land each time, because we beat the hell outta your armies.

"It is difficult to count out which civilian deaths were caused by Americans as opposed to insurgents or non-violent war-related factors...

America knew this would happen, or rather, the american regim dosnt care enough about human lives to even take that into consideration. So America is responislbe for all deaths that came with the invasion. A few years ago allmost ALL experts agreed that the survey showing 600k dead Iraqis is the most beliveble. A good guess since the violence has only gotten worse is that probably 1.2-1.4 million people are dead now. An iraqi friend of mine said that there was corpses all over the streets.

If America is given a right to bomb Kabul and invade Afghanistan after 3000 people, the Iraqis should have the right to bomb the American major cities. Of course thats not a good solution, but thats how sick your logic is.

"Government expansion and repression.  Stalin, in many instances, attempted to rewrite history..."

Compared to what the west have done, the stalinist revisionism is hardly worth mentioning.

youh ponti u should wach your words that is totaly tounting..

oh lol ponti

your the man seckin me , i told you and i still telling you even the kings and dectators are following america so they are not the people who send the poor and weak,

then we dont live in chet if you europe and america got their nose in our lands chek history this land belong to arab canan before even vikings came

and tell me british oh come on they also said their empire , the sun dont fall from it , tell me how they got all that , dont tell me in fair , we are getting our lands in fair as hammas is now doing and the islamic country in iraq and the freedom people and iran

these four will get the islam khelafe , the best country in the world , a country based on one relegion , one language , one army , and the best , one god

you people feeling me sick , you came to our lands , taking our petrol and uranium , yes we have uranium ,

and yes its not my land , god gave me his land to let me own it for a little time

as one of the god's name is the king , the owner

so god gave you this thing from his , for a short  time

and so this is not the subject sorry , but you can't come to me and say " arabs make me feel sick " humans dont say that

muslims have no more right to 'land' then 'jews', or 'christians', or atheist, or whatever have ...     whatever is in the bible, or koran, or whatever mythical scripture, cannot be used as a justification ...

both sides are wrong in keeping this conflict alive ... and the terrorist assaults aren't helping either side.       

if you say that god created the world, then every human being is free to live where he wants, regardless of nationality or religion or colour ... we are all humans ...  all the same ... just that some are smarter than others.