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Thinner arrows are useless against plate armour. They are used for penetrating chain mail as the point would break the link and cause the rest of the liinks to fall off. Wider arrows (Callded bodkin arrows) are used to penetrate lower quality plate mail.

[About the numbers I cant confirm or disprove them so I'd prefer something more... tangible... but halberds have the pike at the top which can't be much thicker than a arrow head]

wow  900 Neutrons?
Thats pretty good as an apple is 1 Neutron { Average } right?
Thats about 900 apple*beep*ting youin one spot.... Ouch

I have seen that topic on wikipedia and read those numbers. What I meant by giving me something more tangible is do you have any idea behind the forces in a halberd swing or jab to compare it with? Because it would involve the strength in a man's muscles, (which in those times was alot due to all the work they used to do in fields, mines, etc) multiplied by the length of the halberd, typically 1.5 to 1.8 metres long (I think thats about 5 to 6 feet long but I stand to be corrected on that)

Also, longbows just need too much training compared to halberds. Halberds were used by simple peasants and are effective in the simplest of hands. Cheap and with alot of power, the could be used to take out cavalry or hold back pike formations.

 Infact, it was a peasant who killed the Duke of Burgundy and ended a whole war.

900 Neutons is 90 kilos approximately

900 Neutons is 90 kilos approximately

Which is more than most people weigh, myself included... And all that weight and pressure is being put into a tiny area, only about 10mm for some types of arrows.

Revenge I know all this but can you find the forces behind a halberd swing or jab to compare it with? I'll be impressed if its not high aswell.

Yes we are talking about the weapon on the whole and training comes into it. So does effectiveness.

The halberd was specifically made to be versatile and kill cavalry and deal with infantry. Bows were used behind the halberds since they would be killed instantly in the event of a cavalry charge or possibly an infantry march. Bowmen also had to have some form of defence placed infront of them (stakes, etc).

Besides this, although longbows had range they were inaccurate and ineffective at this range. They were used mainly at this range for the infamous arrow showers to distract the enemy from the cavalry thundering down at them.

Another fact is that bows in general caused bone spurs. This was painful and limited the movement of the joints which can hardly be called an advantage.

I disagree. It is a versatile weapon and you just proved that everything has a counter. However, the halberd is just as versatile.

While it can cope with infantry and cavalry with the bonus of being cheap and easy to train while being prey for a group of strong, experienced bowmen.

Archers can cope with other archers to a certain extent and with their light armour would have little problem outrunning heavily armed foot soldiers. However, they stand significantly lower chances against cavalry.

[Vengence we can keep on at this all week without getting anywhere. I spoke with Erunion and we agreed. Can you pick a winner, or two.  =P)

*Wraithish receives the messenger and thinks. He send 1,000 more troops to Romus's aid. However he sends them in groups of 200 along different routes so that Might can not kill them all. However they can quickly come to the aid of one another. They arrive quickly and await orders from Romus. Wraithish also has 500 troops at the burnt blockade in between his and Romus's towns and the rest building another 2 houses or sparring.*

[I have 20 gold and 285 wood.]

[Now Might has to post something defensive and btw who won the debate?]

[You cant decide if they disband or not! Or on the numbers]

*Wraithish waits till night falls. He then sends out a small division of 150 troops marching in 2 lines so they look bigger. They stop about 100 metres off.

While Might's men are looking at this, Wraithish orders some more men to sneak up in pairs through the forest on either side of the path. The division then starts chanting and Wraithish's troops in the trees throw bottles of vodka with flaming rags stuffed in the openings.

Then the 150 soldiers charge straight at the blockade, easily avoiding the stakes. The soldiers (About 60) in the woods to the sides continued throwing Molotov coktails at the enemy and when they run out of ammo, charge to join into the fray.*

[It doesnt matter that you wet the wood a little. They were just for psychological and chaos-creating reasons. Also you said you didnt have a general before... I take it you still don't?]

[You cant decide how many men you kill!! And of course they have a General... me. Less trained my @§§... it's all they've been doing.

For the record obsidian is considered a natural glass and it doesnt have to be Vodka... it can be anything with high alcohol content.]

[With what money?! And obsidian is only expensive nowadays. In those times it just came out of a volcano and anyone could get (I suppose). If you want to act smart then I used pottery instead of glass.  :@]

[Exactly. Strained conditions... 400 guys assaulting a heavily armed tower with Molotov's raining down on their heads from their OWN men!

[Sorry for my '@' s....]

So might your army is led my a few officers with no direct rule, that means your men are fighting in groops without cordination Coordination because you don’t have a general. So your men are broken up into small groups. And my army reached you city long before you tried set up your crappy traps so you had lets say 500 men walking outside with arms of wood into my army. And if you have 4,700 (-500 because they were killed by my troops while they were leavening the city to set up traps) so 4,200 troops in your city, I presume less then 200 keeping me from getting wood, that means you have 100-150 at your fort. You need to tell us how many troops you have where ok? And you can’t draw up numbers saying you kill everyone, only vengeance can do that.

“After 20 days (20 hours) Might’s food stores have been empty for a week as he did not ration out food like a good leader, people are rioting in the streets. Might’s men are weak with hunger and hallucinating from dehydration. “Because you did not describe the layout of your city I will describe it for you “in the middle of a field and Less than 1,100 square feet Might’s city was in the shape of a circle, he had four lookout stations in his city to provide early warning in case of an attack because he knew one was coming. The only HQ that was in the city was a small tent that was near the middle of the city. With no defensive points the city ripe for the burning as it was in incredible disarray from the 20 day blockade.

To take advantage of Might’s predicament Romus ordered his army to strike it from 4 sides to split up Might’s forces but because of the small size of the village if he focused all his forces on one army group the others could quickly come to the army group’s aid. Romuses armies begun to march on the city, each army had 1,500 “more if the reinforcements made it. Hearing a dimly warning bell ring inside the city romus was delighted for the battle was taking place at night, this means that not only were might’s forces starved and dehydrated but they were now exacted before the battle Evan started. Just as Romuses forces made it within 100 feet from the village Might’s forces began to take action. “now might this is how you are supposed to start a battle (now you state how it went before the battle started inside the village)” note that I am only 100 feet from your village and have troops at 4 sides (also 1,200 sq feet is not a vary large city)

“Back to Romuses village” Frustrated that the village was not getting any wood Vianti ordered 15 peasants to get wood “with 200 troops in front the wood choppers and 100 at either flank 50 feet from the choppers” with Vianti heading the central group and a    Major heading each of the flanking “these Majors had been given orders (in not going to tell you what they are until you attack me Might).

whatever you say but you cant burn down a whole forest, the only reson forest fires are as bad as they are is becouse ppl stop the small fires that nature intends. when after years there havent been small "clearing fires" to burn up the debres thats when you get a big forest fire. so you might have burned 1 sq mile but thats realy nothing.

[Romus I was talking about food. I was talking about Tree. Aka I just stopped your expansions.]
so what is this then? you are countering yourself. "you also need to say what your men are doing"

Mr. Might The God of Cows Report 1/24/2008 4:37:07 PM

[You said 150 were attacking. Which makes it even worse! My guys out numbered yours... Also you only said they were throwing Molotov's. Im not in the tower. Im at my base fool!]

base is your village if i am right and if it is not then i am attacking your "base" right now.

Also Mr. Romus The II

1/23/2008     when i said my men got to your town

6:25:33 PM

Mr. Might The God of Cows

Report


1/24/2008        When you said you set up the traps and blockades

10:07:11 AM

that is 11 hours from when i got to your city to when you said you set up all the stuff and killed my army, you had all the time from when i said i sent my army to when i said my army got to your city to say you set everything up and you dident. so Might you need to tell me what happened in your city now. "and no more 1 sided battles you are acting vary inmature saying you kill everyone all the time"

(also you mose likely must buy traps on the market and buy blockades on the market "or thats what i would think vengence would say") you need to follow the rules.)

i was not marching from my village to yours i was marching from the barbarian lands that are to the north, so you set the blocades in the wrong place "if you set them up when i was going to your city and now after i was there" all in all i am attacking your city you need to say what happens inside your city and also say where your troops are.

when did you say what your troops are doing? and when are you going to post something about the battle?

It takes days to march that far...

[Well....I can't play this anymore so I guess you guys will need to stir up trouble by yourselfs. my ultimate goal in this was to make it a slugfest!]

right...this is getting seriously messy, people changing things, 'pouring salt' that they havent got amongst other things. if it is wanted by all I will revamp the game

[Vengence, you never said Salt was a resource and that I had to "Get/buy it...]

[That is irrelevant might. as you have just seen, freash start. I will work on improvements before posting. expect either today or tomorrow, depending on how much I add.]

I just want to know that I (hopefully) beat Erunion  =P

We finished the current debate and were waiting for you to tell us who won =P

ok vengence how about if we are going to use something we have to post it ahead of time ok? also only you can post losses from battles, becouse might at one time said he killed half my army from traps that he placed 11 hours after i posted i arived at his city also 20 hours befor that i said i was on my way, can you tell us the time ratio? like 1 hour = how many game days.and make their be easyer ways to get gold, like side quests that we can do at any time. also under all our posts we should post this info to keep things organized, how much gold we have, how much wood we have, how meny extra resourses "salt, greek fire, molitav *beep*tales (if i spelled that right), exc.... also where our troops are and what they are doing so noone can say their forces are behined our lines whenever they feal like it.

these are all sugestions they dont need to be put into effect